Before Social Security...

[Genx87]

I will never support any type of "privatization" of SS. Look at health insurance now where the HMO's deny people needed medical treatment or delay it until the person dies. Privatization will only make things worse. Everybody needs to be in the same boat/program.

It is only privatized in name. The govt still holds the fund and distributes them. This isnt a private organization that we are sending our taxes too. If you dont trust the govt with this form of SS, why would you trust one where they can freely dip in and take at all times?

Things need to be done so that people have an incentive to work, not so they are forced to work. By the time people get to 65 years old, there is a BIG difference in the shape of their bodies/minds and what they are capable of. Somebody who worked physical labor all his life might be shot at 65 while others who worked desk jobs are still in good enough physical/mental shape to contiue doing jobs that aren't so physical in nature in the first place, but they are going to need an incentive to do it IMO.

The incentive is to make money and live a comfortable lifestyle. People living into their 90s means people should be able to work into their 70s. Not raising the age requirement is denying reality.

Of course Congress shouldn't be able to get there hands on the trust fund, but as you said earlier, it's too late now. Right back at ya!!

This is exactly the childish attitude that will end this program in ruin along with this country. Fighting over poverty wages is really beneath us as a country if you ask me.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Of course Congress shouldn't be able to get there hands on the trust fund, but as you said earlier, it's too late now. Right back at ya!!

This is exactly the childish attitude that will end this program in ruin along with this country. Fighting over poverty wages is really beneath us as a country if you ask me.

No, it is you with the childish attitude that wants to bank "your" money while telling me mine's all gone. Like it or not, your in the same boat as me.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Genx87

Of course Congress shouldn't be able to get there hands on the trust fund, but as you said earlier, it's too late now. Right back at ya!!

This is exactly the childish attitude that will end this program in ruin along with this country. Fighting over poverty wages is really beneath us as a country if you ask me.

No, it is you with the childish attitude that wants to bank "your" money while telling me mine's all gone. Like it or not, your in the same boat as me.

Did you bother reading anything I have written?

Seriously take the hack glasses off.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Genx87

Of course Congress shouldn't be able to get there hands on the trust fund, but as you said earlier, it's too late now. Right back at ya!!

This is exactly the childish attitude that will end this program in ruin along with this country. Fighting over poverty wages is really beneath us as a country if you ask me.

No, it is you with the childish attitude that wants to bank "your" money while telling me mine's all gone. Like it or not, your in the same boat as me.

Did you bother reading anything I have written?

Seriously take the hack glasses off.

You first.

 

[Genx87]

Me first what? I offered a solution and even stated I can care less if I get any benefits out of the program just as long as it is fixed.

All you can come back with is how I am trying to get my "money" out of this and an attitude an 8 year old would admire. How does one respond to somebody so blatently not paying attention to the thread?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Me first what? I offered a solution and even stated I can care less if I get any benefits out of the program just as long as it is fixed.

All you can come back with is how I am trying to get my "money" out of this and an attitude an 8 year old would admire. How does one respond to somebody so blatently not paying attention to the thread?

Yeah, you say you don't care if you get any money, but then turn around and want whatever you put in to be in a seperate fund. Excuse me if I see some duplicity there.

So you take your hack glasses off first and read what I've said. What does it matter if we put the money in a seperate "account" then where my money went, except that you can come gback and tell me my money is all gone but yours isn't??

It's like shutting the barn door after the cows got out.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Genx87
Me first what? I offered a solution and even stated I can care less if I get any benefits out of the program just as long as it is fixed.

All you can come back with is how I am trying to get my "money" out of this and an attitude an 8 year old would admire. How does one respond to somebody so blatently not paying attention to the thread?

Yeah, you say you don't care if you get any money, but then turn around and want whatever you put in to be in a seperate fund. Excuse me if I see some duplicity there.

So you take your hack glasses off first and read what I've said. What does it matter if we put the money in a seperate "account" then where my money went, except that you can come gback and tell me my money is all gone but yours isn't??

It's like shutting the barn door after the cows got out.

Reread what I wrote please because you either cant comprehend or wont comprehend.

 

[Legend]

Originally posted by: marincounty
quote: "Just because some people don't have the sense to invest on their own doesn't mean every man should be stripped of his freedom to invest his own money for retirement. "

No one is stopping you from investing your own money for your retirement.
You are free to take out an IRA, buy stocks and bonds, invest in real estate, collectibles, gold, mutual funds, etc...
Social Security is a baseline amount for old people. Some people make low wages and never save for retirement, some people are sick and can't work, some people lose everything in a flood or other disaster.
These people need some help and have helped build America.
Would you rather have your elderly out on the streets begging, lining up at the soup kitchen?
It's called compassion-some of you selfish right-wingers need to look it up.

Compassion? So taxing people sick amounts of money, even people in low income, for a system that returns a tiny fraction of what they could have gotten on their own is compassion? A system that only provides an income around the poverty level is compassion?

I'm 21, and I've already maxed my IRA contributions. That's not the issue. The issue is that a large chunk of my money is going to a worthless retirement program that I never plan on using. If I took that money and invested into mutual funds, I could retire years younger if I wanted.

I already said we should phase the system out, and allow people over 30 continue with SS. We should make a strong educational program about personal responsibility and freedom to invest in public schools. We should tell children that if they don't invest, they get to go live in a government run nursing home. This will be poverty . Didn't invest? Too fvcking bad, you made that choice. Compassion isn't stealing money from hard working, financially responsible American citizens.

I will retire on my own terms, and if I ever become a burden to my family and country, I believe then that I have a duty to die.

If it makes life simpler to compassionately label me a right-winger, do so...

And I'm selfish? So those people that make no effort to make a retirement fund, and feel that they are entitled to steal money from other people for self needs, they are not selfish? And my desire to use my own money for my own interests, and be willing to take about 1-2% of my income in taxes for the government run nursing homes for the irresponsible is selfish?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Genx87
Me first what? I offered a solution and even stated I can care less if I get any benefits out of the program just as long as it is fixed.

All you can come back with is how I am trying to get my "money" out of this and an attitude an 8 year old would admire. How does one respond to somebody so blatently not paying attention to the thread?

Yeah, you say you don't care if you get any money, but then turn around and want whatever you put in to be in a seperate fund. Excuse me if I see some duplicity there.

So you take your hack glasses off first and read what I've said. What does it matter if we put the money in a seperate "account" then where my money went, except that you can come gback and tell me my money is all gone but yours isn't??

It's like shutting the barn door after the cows got out.

Reread what I wrote please because you either cant comprehend or wont comprehend.

Well, I think you aren't listening to what I'm saying. I pointed out where I think your duplicity is but you choose not to addres it, so I can only assume it is you who "won't comprehend".

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Legend

Originally posted by: marincounty
quote: "Just because some people don't have the sense to invest on their own doesn't mean every man should be stripped of his freedom to invest his own money for retirement. "

No one is stopping you from investing your own money for your retirement.
You are free to take out an IRA, buy stocks and bonds, invest in real estate, collectibles, gold, mutual funds, etc...
Social Security is a baseline amount for old people. Some people make low wages and never save for retirement, some people are sick and can't work, some people lose everything in a flood or other disaster.
These people need some help and have helped build America.
Would you rather have your elderly out on the streets begging, lining up at the soup kitchen?
It's called compassion-some of you selfish right-wingers need to look it up.

Compassion? So taxing people sick amounts of money, even people in low income, for a system that returns a tiny fraction of what they could have gotten on their own is compassion? A system that only provides an income around the poverty level is compassion?

I'm 21, and I've already maxed my IRA contributions. That's not the issue. The issue is that a large chunk of my money is going to a worthless retirement program that I never plan on using. If I took that money and invested into mutual funds, I could retire years younger if I wanted.

I already said we should phase the system out, and allow people over 30 continue with SS. We should make a strong educational program about personal responsibility and freedom to invest in public schools. We should tell children that if they don't invest, they get to go live in a government run nursing home. This will be poverty . Didn't invest? Too fvcking bad, you made that choice. Compassion isn't stealing money from hard working, financially responsible American citizens.

I will retire on my own terms, and if I ever become a burden to my family and country, I believe then that I have a duty to die.

If it makes life simpler to compassionately label me a right-winger, do so...

And I'm selfish? So those people that make no effort to make a retirement fund, and feel that they are entitled to steal money from other people for self needs, they are not selfish? And my desire to use my own money for my own interests, and be willing to take about 1-2% of my income in taxes for the government run nursing homes for the irresponsible is selfish?

WAHHHHHH!!! Your the only poor hard working SOB in the country, LMAO!!

 

[Legend]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Legend

Originally posted by: marincounty
quote: "Just because some people don't have the sense to invest on their own doesn't mean every man should be stripped of his freedom to invest his own money for retirement. "

No one is stopping you from investing your own money for your retirement.
You are free to take out an IRA, buy stocks and bonds, invest in real estate, collectibles, gold, mutual funds, etc...
Social Security is a baseline amount for old people. Some people make low wages and never save for retirement, some people are sick and can't work, some people lose everything in a flood or other disaster.
These people need some help and have helped build America.
Would you rather have your elderly out on the streets begging, lining up at the soup kitchen?
It's called compassion-some of you selfish right-wingers need to look it up.

Compassion? So taxing people sick amounts of money, even people in low income, for a system that returns a tiny fraction of what they could have gotten on their own is compassion? A system that only provides an income around the poverty level is compassion?

I'm 21, and I've already maxed my IRA contributions. That's not the issue. The issue is that a large chunk of my money is going to a worthless retirement program that I never plan on using. If I took that money and invested into mutual funds, I could retire years younger if I wanted.

I already said we should phase the system out, and allow people over 30 continue with SS. We should make a strong educational program about personal responsibility and freedom to invest in public schools. We should tell children that if they don't invest, they get to go live in a government run nursing home. This will be poverty . Didn't invest? Too fvcking bad, you made that choice. Compassion isn't stealing money from hard working, financially responsible American citizens.

I will retire on my own terms, and if I ever become a burden to my family and country, I believe then that I have a duty to die.

If it makes life simpler to compassionately label me a right-winger, do so...

And I'm selfish? So those people that make no effort to make a retirement fund, and feel that they are entitled to steal money from other people for self needs, they are not selfish? And my desire to use my own money for my own interests, and be willing to take about 1-2% of my income in taxes for the government run nursing homes for the irresponsible is selfish?

WAHHHHHH!!! Your the only poor hard working SOB in the country, LMAO!!

Care to make a worthwhile reponse? Or is that going to be it?

 

[marincounty]

quote:"What compassion you are showing by promising a comfortable retirement while delivering slightly above poverty level income.

It isnt compassion when you steal from peter to pay paul.
It isnt compassion when you steal from a person their entire life then give them beans in the end.

A more compassionate stance would be to provide a system where their money cant be raped by congress and the current generation and would actually return a decent gain in wealth over its 40 years in the bank. The current system does neither of the above. "

It isn't compassion when you steal from a person their entire life....it's called doing your civic duty as an American, paying your taxes. How do you think the govt pays for bombs, planes, tanks, and yes, social security for our elderly.
I will agree with you that the money shouldn't be stolen by Congress, I don't see any attempt by the current Republican Congress or administration to stop stealing this money. Remember way back when when Republicans wanted a balanced budget.
And it was George HW Bush who doubled the social security tax, and then spent all of the additional money.
http://www.buzzflash.com/hartmann/05/07/har05007.html

 

[Zebo]

LOL - Gawd not another SS debate - you guys are high if you think it's going anywhere with 35 million baby boomers all set to collect and they all vote. This issue is a non-starter in the coming years which is why bush/conservatives tried a fast one recently. My dad is about as conservative as you can get and says "keep the checks coming"

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: Legend

Originally posted by: marincounty
quote: "Just because some people don't have the sense to invest on their own doesn't mean every man should be stripped of his freedom to invest his own money for retirement. "

No one is stopping you from investing your own money for your retirement.
You are free to take out an IRA, buy stocks and bonds, invest in real estate, collectibles, gold, mutual funds, etc...
Social Security is a baseline amount for old people. Some people make low wages and never save for retirement, some people are sick and can't work, some people lose everything in a flood or other disaster.
These people need some help and have helped build America.
Would you rather have your elderly out on the streets begging, lining up at the soup kitchen?
It's called compassion-some of you selfish right-wingers need to look it up.

Compassion? So taxing people sick amounts of money, even people in low income, for a system that returns a tiny fraction of what they could have gotten on their own is compassion? A system that only provides an income around the poverty level is compassion?

I'm 21, and I've already maxed my IRA contributions. That's not the issue. The issue is that a large chunk of my money is going to a worthless retirement program that I never plan on using. If I took that money and invested into mutual funds, I could retire years younger if I wanted.

I already said we should phase the system out, and allow people over 30 continue with SS. We should make a strong educational program about personal responsibility and freedom to invest in public schools. We should tell children that if they don't invest, they get to go live in a government run nursing home. This will be poverty . Didn't invest? Too fvcking bad, you made that choice. Compassion isn't stealing money from hard working, financially responsible American citizens.

I will retire on my own terms, and if I ever become a burden to my family and country, I believe then that I have a duty to die.

If it makes life simpler to compassionately label me a right-winger, do so...

And I'm selfish? So those people that make no effort to make a retirement fund, and feel that they are entitled to steal money from other people for self needs, they are not selfish? And my desire to use my own money for my own interests, and be willing to take about 1-2% of my income in taxes for the government run nursing homes for the irresponsible is selfish?

So you're upset "that a large chunk of my money is going to a worthless retirement program that I never plan on using." So what, I'm upset about my tax money being spent on unneccessary wars and Star Wars weapons systems that don't work.
That's the price you pay for living in a free society. Even if you never see a dime of Social Security money, you will have paid for old people's medicine, rent and food, and
I thank you for it. Or would you rather have grandma thrown out on the street to starve.
If you don't like it, you are free to move to the country of your choice, most of which have much HIGHER TAX RATES.
No, you're not really selfish, you're just 21 and uninformed. As you get older, benefits on the job will be come more important to you, as will the value of Social Security, when you start dealing with sick and dying family members.

 

[Zebo]

I'm 21, and I've already maxed my IRA contributions. That's not the issue. The issue is that a large chunk of my money is going to a worthless retirement program that I never plan on using. If I took that money and invested into mutual funds, I could retire years younger if I wanted.

No biggie. If you're as smart as you seem you'll fiqure out how to not pay any SS taxes soon enough if you're that dejected by "large" 7 to 14% taxes depending if self employeed.. Passive income, rents, capital gains, 403B's etc etc etc. I'm personally more worried about marginal tax rates which are insane relative. Also keep in mind SS is regressive tax so the less you make the more you pay as a percentage. For example say a Doctor makes 400,000 in income - he pays about 1% SS tax while a teacher is paying full 7%.

 

[Sysbuilder05]

Already spent, sorry.

[/quote]

BS Rush,solvent until AT LEAST 2050 if NOTHING is done to add extra income to the system. I got an idea-QUIT LETTING CONGRESS LOOT THE DAMN FUND!!!!!!!!!!

You'd be surprised how solvent it is....

 

[Legend]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Legend

Originally posted by: marincounty
quote: "Just because some people don't have the sense to invest on their own doesn't mean every man should be stripped of his freedom to invest his own money for retirement. "

No one is stopping you from investing your own money for your retirement.
You are free to take out an IRA, buy stocks and bonds, invest in real estate, collectibles, gold, mutual funds, etc...
Social Security is a baseline amount for old people. Some people make low wages and never save for retirement, some people are sick and can't work, some people lose everything in a flood or other disaster.
These people need some help and have helped build America.
Would you rather have your elderly out on the streets begging, lining up at the soup kitchen?
It's called compassion-some of you selfish right-wingers need to look it up.

Compassion? So taxing people sick amounts of money, even people in low income, for a system that returns a tiny fraction of what they could have gotten on their own is compassion? A system that only provides an income around the poverty level is compassion?

I'm 21, and I've already maxed my IRA contributions. That's not the issue. The issue is that a large chunk of my money is going to a worthless retirement program that I never plan on using. If I took that money and invested into mutual funds, I could retire years younger if I wanted.

I already said we should phase the system out, and allow people over 30 continue with SS. We should make a strong educational program about personal responsibility and freedom to invest in public schools. We should tell children that if they don't invest, they get to go live in a government run nursing home. This will be poverty . Didn't invest? Too fvcking bad, you made that choice. Compassion isn't stealing money from hard working, financially responsible American citizens.

I will retire on my own terms, and if I ever become a burden to my family and country, I believe then that I have a duty to die.

If it makes life simpler to compassionately label me a right-winger, do so...

And I'm selfish? So those people that make no effort to make a retirement fund, and feel that they are entitled to steal money from other people for self needs, they are not selfish? And my desire to use my own money for my own interests, and be willing to take about 1-2% of my income in taxes for the government run nursing homes for the irresponsible is selfish?

So you're upset "that a large chunk of my money is going to a worthless retirement program that I never plan on using." So what, I'm upset about my tax money being spent on unneccessary wars and Star Wars weapons systems that don't work.
That's the price you pay for living in a free society. Even if you never see a dime of Social Security money, you will have paid for old people's medicine, rent and food, and
I thank you for it. Or would you rather have grandma thrown out on the street to starve.
If you don't like it, you are free to move to the country of your choice, most of which have much HIGHER TAX RATES.
No, you're not really selfish, you're just 21 and uninformed. As you get older, benefits on the job will be come more important to you, as will the value of Social Security, when you start dealing with sick and dying family members.

I'm also against the war on Iraq, and the needless spending. That's why I commented on the right-winger thing because I'm closer to liberal if anything. I just have a few fiscally conservative beliefs, some of which aren't popular in either Rep/Dem (real conservative, not Bush "conservative").

I don't want grandma on the street. I want it to be phased out. Grandma will still get her SS money. Children growing up now shoudl invest on their own, or get to spend their last days in some government run retirement home, which wouldn't spend money on excessive means of life extension (like near vegetable states, etc).

I realize that we have much lower taxes than many other nations, but that doesn't mean we should keep SS unchanged. When SS started, it wasn't a big deal in terms of cost. Now it could really damage our economy.

 

[marincounty]

Let's see, Republicans were against Social Security to begin with, doubled the taxes for it-which they spent, now look-it is underfunded, we need to end this fiscally irresponsible program.