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Before Social Security...

techs

Lifer
http://www.thetandd.com/articles/2005/03/13/news/doc42351597bc1c4771265243.txt

Few people remember the time before Social Security. And, nobody wants to read about it.

Around the home tables and in the gathering places in the town of Brandon, Vermont, the people discussed that horrid President Roosevelt's latest "New Deal" program. The Social Security Bill passed on Aug. 14, 1935. Employers would have to "kick in" money for their employees' retirement. It would ruin businesses. Everybody knew that only the rich retired to a leisure lifestyle, not farmers, tradesmen, or businessmen.

Those same people seemed to forget that in the case of this town, there was the Town Farm, or another name was The Poor House, paid for by these same people. The Town Farm residents had no homes, families or incomes and were "housed" at the farm. They had the minimal necessities, but no medical care.

The stagecoach inn-like house was a two-story house with an L-extension, where the poor people lived. The front of the house contained the manager's quarters. The poor lived in small, single rooms with a bed, chair and a hook to hang their few belongs. It opened into a large, all-purpose room, where they ate. The women sat around doing handiwork when they weren't helping prepare huge meals for the residents. The men passed the time playing cards at night in that room.

The men had a full schedule working on the farm if they were able. A large barn of beautiful registered Ayrshire brown-and-white cows were milked and fed by the men. The gardens were tended and the wood chopped and brought in for the fires.

These poor people had no homes or relatives and were forced to go to the Town Farm or live in town in the filthy coal bins.

Another program for the poor community was the distribution of flour, sugar, salt, coffee, some cloth and other items these people were financially unable to buy. The goods were housed in my mother's living room for safety and for keeping rodents at bay. Men walked ? they couldn't afford cars ? to pick up what was absolutely necessary for their families. Each recipient was listed on the annual March Town Report, along with the amount they received. These proud people asked for as little as possible, not to appear greedy.

With President Roosevelt's Social Security plan, the Town Farm was eliminated The property was sold. Down the road, the recipients of the new plan maintained their rural homes and lived frugally, but with pride, and independently. Many would have had to go to the Town Farm had they not had these funds. Grace, Emma, Hazel and others continued to be contributing citizens economically and in the community when they received their Social Security checks. They had the pride of their own homes and managing their own lives.

None of these people who were in the labor force in their youth had any idea of the stock market. They only knew about the crash of l929 and how the farm commodities sold for almost nothing. They would not have been interested in repeating that scenario by investing in the private accounts.

In the last decade, we have seen Wall Street and even local businesses crash. Retirees who thought they were set for the good life in retirement discovered they had no funds.

Most of us are not of the economic persuasion to accumulate great wealth, and the Social Security System is reliable, basic insurance. Reading the predictions of when the Social Security system will go broke is like reading a fairy tale. Former Sen. Fritz Hollings has said that if the Washington politicians would keep their hands out of the fund, the Social Security fund would still be intact. Having used much of it for other programs, the politicians do not want to pay the money back into the fund.

We have a large population, which is living below hand-to-mouth right now, and all the tax credits and investments won't do anything for the eventual poverty of these people if they do not have Social Security checks when they need them.

It would be wonderful if we all had bundles of money stashed away to do all the things we would like. That doesn't seem to be realistic. Social Security gives us dignity, and some money to live, which in the end spurs the economy.


Its important to remember there was a time before Social Security and what it was like.
 
It could have easily been privitized. The additional capital available to businesses would have greatly reduced the effects of the Great Depression.
 
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Genx87
Just a Socialist utopia dream come true!

From a Capitalist Nightmare. It was the Failure of Capitalism that spawned those Programs.

More of a failure of the Federal Reserve. Also a failure of not allowing banks to open up nationwide branches.
 
If all those companies had to pay into social security they would have just layed more people off to pay for it. Social Security was like $80.00 a month. I guess we will find out what happens when Social Security goes bankrupt.
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Just a Socialist utopia dream come true!
God bless America! We are truly priviliged to live in a country so prosperous and civilized that we can easily afford to take care of those who cannot take care of themselves.
 
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: Genx87
Just a Socialist utopia dream come true!
God bless America! We are truly priviliged to live in a country so prosperous and civilized that we can easily afford to take care of those who cannot take care of themselves.

For now
 
So whats the excuse now?
We have it, dont we?
Whats the excuse for not taking care of tens of millions of Americans?
Whats the excuse for ass-raping two hundred million more?
 
Originally posted by: techs
Most of us are not of the economic persuasion to accumulate great wealth, and the Social Security System is reliable, basic insurance. Reading the predictions of when the Social Security system will go broke is like reading a fairy tale. Former Sen. Fritz Hollings has said that if the Washington politicians would keep their hands out of the fund, the Social Security fund would still be intact. Having used much of it for other programs, the politicians do not want to pay the money back into the fund.[/b]

lol

Everyone can accumulate great wealth, they just have to start young. Americans starting at $10/hr at 20 yo can max their IRA each year ($4000/yr), and retire a multimillionaire.

A truly free country would allow you to have control over your retirement. Freedom and responsibility are together.

I'm not saying we should stop all SS now. We should cut the program entirely for people under 30.

It simply isn't going to work in the future. People are living longer, and having longer retirments. People are eating more junk food, and are using more expensive prescription drugs.

Just because some people don't have the sense to invest on their own doesn't mean every man should be stripped of his freedom to invest his own money for retirement.



The depression is a completely seperate topic.
 
quote: "Just because some people don't have the sense to invest on their own doesn't mean every man should be stripped of his freedom to invest his own money for retirement. "

No one is stopping you from investing your own money for your retirement.
You are free to take out an IRA, buy stocks and bonds, invest in real estate, collectibles, gold, mutual funds, etc...
Social Security is a baseline amount for old people. Some people make low wages and never save for retirement, some people are sick and can't work, some people lose everything in a flood or other disaster.
These people need some help and have helped build America.
Would you rather have your elderly out on the streets begging, lining up at the soup kitchen?
It's called compassion-some of you selfish right-wingers need to look it up.

 
Originally posted by: marincounty
quote: "Just because some people don't have the sense to invest on their own doesn't mean every man should be stripped of his freedom to invest his own money for retirement. "

No one is stopping you from investing your own money for your retirement.
You are free to take out an IRA, buy stocks and bonds, invest in real estate, collectibles, gold, mutual funds, etc...
Social Security is a baseline amount for old people. Some people make low wages and never save for retirement, some people are sick and can't work, some people lose everything in a flood or other disaster.
These people need some help and have helped build America.
Would you rather have your elderly out on the streets begging, lining up at the soup kitchen?
It's called compassion-some of you selfish right-wingers need to look it up.

QFT.
 
Originally posted by: marincounty
quote: "Just because some people don't have the sense to invest on their own doesn't mean every man should be stripped of his freedom to invest his own money for retirement. "

No one is stopping you from investing your own money for your retirement.
You are free to take out an IRA, buy stocks and bonds, invest in real estate, collectibles, gold, mutual funds, etc...
Social Security is a baseline amount for old people. Some people make low wages and never save for retirement, some people are sick and can't work, some people lose everything in a flood or other disaster.
These people need some help and have helped build America.
Would you rather have your elderly out on the streets begging, lining up at the soup kitchen?
It's called compassion-some of you selfish right-wingers need to look it up.

What compassion you are showing by promising a comfortable retirement while delivering slightly above poverty level income.

It isnt compassion when you steal from peter to pay paul.
It isnt compassion when you steal from a person their entire life then give them beans in the end.

A more compassionate stance would be to provide a system where their money cant be raped by congress and the current generation and would actually return a decent gain in wealth over its 40 years in the bank. The current system does neither of the above.



 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: marincounty
quote: "Just because some people don't have the sense to invest on their own doesn't mean every man should be stripped of his freedom to invest his own money for retirement. "

No one is stopping you from investing your own money for your retirement.
You are free to take out an IRA, buy stocks and bonds, invest in real estate, collectibles, gold, mutual funds, etc...
Social Security is a baseline amount for old people. Some people make low wages and never save for retirement, some people are sick and can't work, some people lose everything in a flood or other disaster.
These people need some help and have helped build America.
Would you rather have your elderly out on the streets begging, lining up at the soup kitchen?
It's called compassion-some of you selfish right-wingers need to look it up.

What compassion you are showing by promising a comfortable retirement while delivering slightly above poverty level income.

It isnt compassion when you steal from peter to pay paul.
It isnt compassion when you steal from a person their entire life then give them beans in the end.

A more compassionate stance would be to provide a system where their money cant be raped by congress and the current generation and would actually return a decent gain in wealth over its 40 years in the bank. The current system does neither of the above.

It's amazing how much compassion you have, especially when you percieve something as being in YOUR OWN BEST INTEREST. LMAO!!
 
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: marincounty
quote: "Just because some people don't have the sense to invest on their own doesn't mean every man should be stripped of his freedom to invest his own money for retirement. "

No one is stopping you from investing your own money for your retirement.
You are free to take out an IRA, buy stocks and bonds, invest in real estate, collectibles, gold, mutual funds, etc...
Social Security is a baseline amount for old people. Some people make low wages and never save for retirement, some people are sick and can't work, some people lose everything in a flood or other disaster.
These people need some help and have helped build America.
Would you rather have your elderly out on the streets begging, lining up at the soup kitchen?
It's called compassion-some of you selfish right-wingers need to look it up.

What compassion you are showing by promising a comfortable retirement while delivering slightly above poverty level income.

It isnt compassion when you steal from peter to pay paul.
It isnt compassion when you steal from a person their entire life then give them beans in the end.

A more compassionate stance would be to provide a system where their money cant be raped by congress and the current generation and would actually return a decent gain in wealth over its 40 years in the bank. The current system does neither of the above.

It's amazing how much compassion you have, especially when you percieve something as being in YOUR OWN BEST INTEREST. LMAO!!

I'm sure he'll approve when his kids piss on him when he's elderly.
 
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: marincounty
quote: "Just because some people don't have the sense to invest on their own doesn't mean every man should be stripped of his freedom to invest his own money for retirement. "

No one is stopping you from investing your own money for your retirement.
You are free to take out an IRA, buy stocks and bonds, invest in real estate, collectibles, gold, mutual funds, etc...
Social Security is a baseline amount for old people. Some people make low wages and never save for retirement, some people are sick and can't work, some people lose everything in a flood or other disaster.
These people need some help and have helped build America.
Would you rather have your elderly out on the streets begging, lining up at the soup kitchen?
It's called compassion-some of you selfish right-wingers need to look it up.

What compassion you are showing by promising a comfortable retirement while delivering slightly above poverty level income.

It isnt compassion when you steal from peter to pay paul.
It isnt compassion when you steal from a person their entire life then give them beans in the end.

A more compassionate stance would be to provide a system where their money cant be raped by congress and the current generation and would actually return a decent gain in wealth over its 40 years in the bank. The current system does neither of the above.

It's amazing how much compassion you have, especially when you percieve something as being in YOUR OWN BEST INTEREST. LMAO!!


You dont think it is in everybody's best interest to have a system that works and wont go bankrupt?
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: marincounty
quote: "Just because some people don't have the sense to invest on their own doesn't mean every man should be stripped of his freedom to invest his own money for retirement. "

No one is stopping you from investing your own money for your retirement.
You are free to take out an IRA, buy stocks and bonds, invest in real estate, collectibles, gold, mutual funds, etc...
Social Security is a baseline amount for old people. Some people make low wages and never save for retirement, some people are sick and can't work, some people lose everything in a flood or other disaster.
These people need some help and have helped build America.
Would you rather have your elderly out on the streets begging, lining up at the soup kitchen?
It's called compassion-some of you selfish right-wingers need to look it up.

What compassion you are showing by promising a comfortable retirement while delivering slightly above poverty level income.

It isnt compassion when you steal from peter to pay paul.
It isnt compassion when you steal from a person their entire life then give them beans in the end.

A more compassionate stance would be to provide a system where their money cant be raped by congress and the current generation and would actually return a decent gain in wealth over its 40 years in the bank. The current system does neither of the above.

It's amazing how much compassion you have, especially when you percieve something as being in YOUR OWN BEST INTEREST. LMAO!!


You dont think it is in everybody's best interest to have a system that works and wont go bankrupt?

Your idea doesn't work for me. Let's just stop the whole SS program and then give me back all the money I've paid in.

Or don't you have THAT much "compassion"?
 
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: marincounty
quote: "Just because some people don't have the sense to invest on their own doesn't mean every man should be stripped of his freedom to invest his own money for retirement. "

No one is stopping you from investing your own money for your retirement.
You are free to take out an IRA, buy stocks and bonds, invest in real estate, collectibles, gold, mutual funds, etc...
Social Security is a baseline amount for old people. Some people make low wages and never save for retirement, some people are sick and can't work, some people lose everything in a flood or other disaster.
These people need some help and have helped build America.
Would you rather have your elderly out on the streets begging, lining up at the soup kitchen?
It's called compassion-some of you selfish right-wingers need to look it up.

What compassion you are showing by promising a comfortable retirement while delivering slightly above poverty level income.

It isnt compassion when you steal from peter to pay paul.
It isnt compassion when you steal from a person their entire life then give them beans in the end.

A more compassionate stance would be to provide a system where their money cant be raped by congress and the current generation and would actually return a decent gain in wealth over its 40 years in the bank. The current system does neither of the above.

It's amazing how much compassion you have, especially when you percieve something as being in YOUR OWN BEST INTEREST. LMAO!!


You dont think it is in everybody's best interest to have a system that works and wont go bankrupt?

Your idea doesn't work for me. Let's just stop the whole SS program and then give me back all the money I've paid in.

Or don't you have THAT much "compassion"?

Already spent, sorry.

 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: marincounty
quote: "Just because some people don't have the sense to invest on their own doesn't mean every man should be stripped of his freedom to invest his own money for retirement. "

No one is stopping you from investing your own money for your retirement.
You are free to take out an IRA, buy stocks and bonds, invest in real estate, collectibles, gold, mutual funds, etc...
Social Security is a baseline amount for old people. Some people make low wages and never save for retirement, some people are sick and can't work, some people lose everything in a flood or other disaster.
These people need some help and have helped build America.
Would you rather have your elderly out on the streets begging, lining up at the soup kitchen?
It's called compassion-some of you selfish right-wingers need to look it up.

What compassion you are showing by promising a comfortable retirement while delivering slightly above poverty level income.

It isnt compassion when you steal from peter to pay paul.
It isnt compassion when you steal from a person their entire life then give them beans in the end.

A more compassionate stance would be to provide a system where their money cant be raped by congress and the current generation and would actually return a decent gain in wealth over its 40 years in the bank. The current system does neither of the above.

It's amazing how much compassion you have, especially when you percieve something as being in YOUR OWN BEST INTEREST. LMAO!!


You dont think it is in everybody's best interest to have a system that works and wont go bankrupt?

Your idea doesn't work for me. Let's just stop the whole SS program and then give me back all the money I've paid in.

Or don't you have THAT much "compassion"?

Already spent, sorry.

Well, then let's just take your SS money and give it to me to replace what I'm out until everything evens out then.
 
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: marincounty
quote: "Just because some people don't have the sense to invest on their own doesn't mean every man should be stripped of his freedom to invest his own money for retirement. "

No one is stopping you from investing your own money for your retirement.
You are free to take out an IRA, buy stocks and bonds, invest in real estate, collectibles, gold, mutual funds, etc...
Social Security is a baseline amount for old people. Some people make low wages and never save for retirement, some people are sick and can't work, some people lose everything in a flood or other disaster.
These people need some help and have helped build America.
Would you rather have your elderly out on the streets begging, lining up at the soup kitchen?
It's called compassion-some of you selfish right-wingers need to look it up.

What compassion you are showing by promising a comfortable retirement while delivering slightly above poverty level income.

It isnt compassion when you steal from peter to pay paul.
It isnt compassion when you steal from a person their entire life then give them beans in the end.

A more compassionate stance would be to provide a system where their money cant be raped by congress and the current generation and would actually return a decent gain in wealth over its 40 years in the bank. The current system does neither of the above.

It's amazing how much compassion you have, especially when you percieve something as being in YOUR OWN BEST INTEREST. LMAO!!


You dont think it is in everybody's best interest to have a system that works and wont go bankrupt?

Your idea doesn't work for me. Let's just stop the whole SS program and then give me back all the money I've paid in.

Or don't you have THAT much "compassion"?

Already spent, sorry.

Well, then let's just take your SS money and give it to me to replace what I'm out until everything evens out then.

Then we are back at square one and nothing fixed.


 
So, who cares? It's a bad program, I thought you wanted rid of it?

Heh, it's pretty obvious what you want. As I stated previously, you just want to get an advantage in the deal with no concern as to what's "fair" to anybody else except yourself.
 
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
So, who cares? It's a bad program, I thought you wanted rid of it?

Heh, it's pretty obvious what you want. As I stated previously, you just want to get an advantage in the deal with no concern as to what's "fair" to anybody else except yourself.

An advantage in the sense the congress cant rape what they already stole?

Ill be honest with you and say what I expect out of the system is nothing, I dont even consider it beans in terms of retirement. It is like fighting over a quarter you find on the street.

Big ffing deal.

But what I do see is a program that can help crash our entire economic system in its current form. That does worry me.

I have already stated on more than one occasion I can care less if the system gives me nothing in the end as long as they fix it so it doesnt truely bankrupt this country.

Unlike you, I view this as a scam and nothing worth relying on in the end and thus I can distance myself from the sense of entitlement and the emotions that obviously come with it.

People fighting like children to preserve their right to poverty wages is quite sad if you ask me.
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
So, who cares? It's a bad program, I thought you wanted rid of it?

Heh, it's pretty obvious what you want. As I stated previously, you just want to get an advantage in the deal with no concern as to what's "fair" to anybody else except yourself.

An advantage in the sense the congress cant rape what they already stole?

Ill be honest with you and say what I expect out of the system is nothing, I dont even consider it beans in terms of retirement. It is like fighting over a quarter you find on the street.

Big ffing deal.

But what I do see is a program that can help crash our entire economic system in its current form. That does worry me.

I have already stated on more than one occasion I can care less if the system gives me nothing in the end as long as they fix it so it doesnt truely bankrupt this country.

Unlike you, I view this as a scam and nothing worth relying on in the end and thus I can distance myself from the sense of entitlement and the emotions that obviously come with it.

People fighting like children to preserve their right to poverty wages is quite sad if you ask me.

You critic the program but don't have a viable alternative for people who have been paying into SS for 40 years. People who never had IRA's or 401k's to help them supplement it? Many jobs don't even have pension plans or health insurance anymore and it just keeps getting worse.

I have to wonder how many of the people out there who have to decide between heat, food, or medicine really give a rat's ass about the economy??? I have to wonder how people like you think people who can barely pay their bills can set any money aside for retirement. How much could you afford to set aside on an $8/hr wage?

And before you start spouting off about "choices" and "consequencs" just realize that there are always a certain percentage of people who have to do the dirty jobs. Not everyone is smart enough, or even healthy enough to get a good job. Like it or not, that is the reality of the situation.
 
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
So, who cares? It's a bad program, I thought you wanted rid of it?

Heh, it's pretty obvious what you want. As I stated previously, you just want to get an advantage in the deal with no concern as to what's "fair" to anybody else except yourself.

An advantage in the sense the congress cant rape what they already stole?

Ill be honest with you and say what I expect out of the system is nothing, I dont even consider it beans in terms of retirement. It is like fighting over a quarter you find on the street.

Big ffing deal.

But what I do see is a program that can help crash our entire economic system in its current form. That does worry me.

I have already stated on more than one occasion I can care less if the system gives me nothing in the end as long as they fix it so it doesnt truely bankrupt this country.

Unlike you, I view this as a scam and nothing worth relying on in the end and thus I can distance myself from the sense of entitlement and the emotions that obviously come with it.

People fighting like children to preserve their right to poverty wages is quite sad if you ask me.

You critic the program but don't have a viable alternative for people who have been paying into SS for 40 years. People who never had IRA's or 401k's to help them supplement it? Many jobs don't even have pension plans or health insurance anymore and it just keeps getting worse.

Sure I do

Phase out the old program and replace it with personal accounts and give them the opportunity to invest a portion of the tax in govt run funds. The other portion goes into a general SS fund untouchable by congress. Anybody between the age of 50-150 stays on the current system. Anybody between the age of 40 and 50 has an option to remain on the old system or move to the new system. Anybody who is below the age of 40 including myself is put on the new system.

In my system however one thing you need to do is qualify for this entitlement. As your assets decrease after age 65 you qualify for more SS aid from the general fund. This will keep people who dont need the money off reserving it for people who do. Personal accounts are also allowed to be passed on through their estate in case of death. Right now the current system steals and steals and if you die before 65 the money goes into a blackhole never to be recovered.

Oh and another thing. The congress is unable to touch any of this money to fund their pet projects. Keeps the theifs out of the bank vault.

One other thing is to also raise the retirement age closer to the avg age of an American citizen. We can live longer, that means we can also be productive for the country longer.


I have to wonder how many of the people out there who have to decide between heat, food, or medicine really give a rat's ass about the economy??? I have to wonder how people like you think people who can barely pay their bills can set any money aside for retirement. How much could you afford to set aside on an $8/hr wage?

You think delivering poverty rate wages while bankrupting the country is the answer?

And before you start spouting off about "choices" and "consequencs" just realize that there are always a certain percentage of people who have to do the dirty jobs. Not everyone is smart enough, or even healthy enough to get a good job. Like it or not, that is the reality of the situation.

Sure there is and those are the people who need to be covered. A blanket social program never works and this is proof.

 
I will never support any type of "privatization" of SS. Look at health insurance now where the HMO's deny people needed medical treatment or delay it until the person dies. Privatization will only make things worse. Everybody needs to be in the same boat/program.

I do support a needs based type of system to determine how much your benifits are, but everybody that paid in needs to get something back. They should also raise the limit on the amount of money people can make and still get some SS. That would encourage those who are healthy enough to work longer. At the same time they should raise the cap on how much income should be taxed.

Things need to be done so that people have an incentive to work, not so they are forced to work. By the time people get to 65 years old, there is a BIG difference in the shape of their bodies/minds and what they are capable of. Somebody who worked physical labor all his life might be shot at 65 while others who worked desk jobs are still in good enough physical/mental shape to contiue doing jobs that aren't so physical in nature in the first place, but they are going to need an incentive to do it IMO.

Of course Congress shouldn't be able to get there hands on the trust fund, but as you said earlier, it's too late now. Right back at ya!!

 
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