Beer Engine Update, home brewing questions

[mmntech]

A while back I posted about my intention to restore my Granddad's old been engine. For those who don't know, a beer engine is essentially a hand pump. Unlike a modern beer tap, which uses CO2, this one has a cylinder and piston that pulls beer up from the pub cellar. Or in my case, a kegerator.

So I got most of the pump uninstalled from his old bar. Took it apart this weekend and started to do some cleaning. My mom reckons the last time he used it was sometime in the 70s, and it certainly shows. Mmm, 40 year old beer. It's not nearly as tasty when it's crusted onto the bottom.

I started by giving it a bath in some dish soap and hot water to get the big gunk off. Now I've got it soaking in vinegar and hot water. I'll have to get some CLR or something for the big job, though apparently you can get beer line specific cleaners. There's a lot of grime inside the piston and something that looks like lime scale.

Here's a look at her guts. Don't see a maker's mark, so no idea how old it is. It was allegedly from a pub in England. It at least dates back to the 60s.

One pleasant surprise, the backflow valve still works. So the cylinder is fully sealed when you fill it up with water. The gaskets will need replacing though. I'll probably make my own using automotive liquid gasket or food safe silicone. The washers are all rotted, but they appear to be standard sized plumbing ones.

I've also got the tap partially polished up. Interior still needs a good cleaning but the valve is no longer seized. The chrome plating has come off over the years. I'll probably leave it as is though. I like the antique look.

The handle itself has proven a much bigger problem. I need to unscrew the top part off but it's seized on there so tight, I can't get it off. I may have to cut the counter to get it out if I can't manage to twist the handle off. Though my Grandma will freak out about that. It's not simply a matter of just getting a new handle either. I need to take it off to free the lever mechanism that pulls up the piston rod. I just can't figure out how without damaging the finish. Here's the before shot.

The whole contraption sits about 3ft under the bar. Obviously it was meant for pulling beer up from a cellar, not a fridge sitting right next to it. I'm thinking about modifying an Ikea Olofstrop kitchen cart to mount the whole thing. With fridge kept next to it, and using the shelves on the left for glasses. The cupboard would hide the mechanism. I'd just turn the drawer into a false one.
http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/products/10239464/

Part 2, I know there's a couple of ATOTers who are home brewers. I'm curious to know what you guys would recommend for a beginner. Especially one who doesn't have access to one of those "brew your own" places. However, there is a place not too far from my grandma that sells supplies and ingredients. I've seen these kits like "MR Beer", but I'm skeptical about how good they are.

 

[DaTT]

Seeing as we're close in proximity....I'll expect an invite when all's said and done.

 

[mmntech]

Seeing as we're close in proximity....I'll expect an invite when all's said and done.

Given how fast I tend work on these projects, you may be waiting a while.

 

[MongGrel]

....

 

[lxskllr]

Don't know a thing about it, but that's a cool thing to have. Good luck getting it operational again.

 

[DaTT]

I will wait patiently...

 

[Uppsala9496]

For cleaning, you can use oxiclean. That's what I use to clean my tap lines and faucets. Hell, I use that to clean all of my brewing equipment. I sanitize with StarSan.
Since you are in Canada, I don't have any recommendations for places to buy equipment/starter kits.
I personally think these guys have some good simple extract kits with easy to follow instructions: http://www.homebrewing.org/Beer-Recipe-Kits_c_135.html

 

[dougp]

A while back I posted about my intention to restore my Granddad's old been engine. For those who don't know, a beer engine is essentially a hand pump. Unlike a modern beer tap, which uses CO2, this one has a cylinder and piston that pulls beer up from the pub cellar. Or in my case, a kegerator.

So I got most of the pump uninstalled from his old bar. Took it apart this weekend and started to do some cleaning. My mom reckons the last time he used it was sometime in the 70s, and it certainly shows. Mmm, 40 year old beer. It's not nearly as tasty when it's crusted onto the bottom.

I started by giving it a bath in some dish soap and hot water to get the big gunk off. Now I've got it soaking in vinegar and hot water. I'll have to get some CLR or something for the big job, though apparently you can get beer line specific cleaners. There's a lot of grime inside the piston and something that looks like lime scale.

Here's a look at her guts. Don't see a maker's mark, so no idea how old it is. It was allegedly from a pub in England. It at least dates back to the 60s.

One pleasant surprise, the backflow valve still works. So the cylinder is fully sealed when you fill it up with water. The gaskets will need replacing though. I'll probably make my own using automotive liquid gasket or food safe silicone. The washers are all rotted, but they appear to be standard sized plumbing ones.

I've also got the tap partially polished up. Interior still needs a good cleaning but the valve is no longer seized. The chrome plating has come off over the years. I'll probably leave it as is though. I like the antique look.

The handle itself has proven a much bigger problem. I need to unscrew the top part off but it's seized on there so tight, I can't get it off. I may have to cut the counter to get it out if I can't manage to twist the handle off. Though my Grandma will freak out about that. It's not simply a matter of just getting a new handle either. I need to take it off to free the lever mechanism that pulls up the piston rod. I just can't figure out how without damaging the finish. Here's the before shot.

The whole contraption sits about 3ft under the bar. Obviously it was meant for pulling beer up from a cellar, not a fridge sitting right next to it. I'm thinking about modifying an Ikea Olofstrop kitchen cart to mount the whole thing. With fridge kept next to it, and using the shelves on the left for glasses. The cupboard would hide the mechanism. I'd just turn the drawer into a false one.
http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/products/10239464/

Part 2, I know there's a couple of ATOTers who are home brewers. I'm curious to know what you guys would recommend for a beginner. Especially one who doesn't have access to one of those "brew your own" places. However, there is a place not too far from my grandma that sells supplies and ingredients. I've seen these kits like "MR Beer", but I'm skeptical about how good they are.

You need to use PBW (or Oxyclean FREE, do not use regular Oxyclean) and BLC (beer line cleaner) - both of them are extremely caustic and can seriously do some damage, so make sure you mix it right. They're both in metric so you should be safe.

As for Mr Beer - it's no different than many other starter kits for extract brewing - but it's only 2.5 gallons. Since you're going to be kegging (to use the beer engine) you might as well stick to 5 gallon batches.

If you never get it working or anything, gimme a shout - I'd be interested in taking it off your hands and putting it to good use.

 

[Linflas]

For cleaning, you can use oxiclean. That's what I use to clean my tap lines and faucets. Hell, I use that to clean all of my brewing equipment. I sanitize with StarSan.
Since you are in Canada, I don't have any recommendations for places to buy equipment/starter kits.
I personally think these guys have some good simple extract kits with easy to follow instructions: http://www.homebrewing.org/Beer-Recipe-Kits_c_135.html

I always used this: http://www.amazon.com/B-Brite-Cleans.../dp/B00838WGD0

 

[ThinClient]

VERY cool project!!

 

[manimal]

Leave the patina and wear on the outside stuff gives it great character. If you polish the sit out of it it would lose some of its charm to me though losing the bacteria and mold would be a good thing

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

Do NOT use any Mr. Beer or other factory packaged brewing kit. Get real supplies such as a glass carboy, siphon, wine thief, hydrometer, proper sanitation airlocks, etc. Frequently, homebrew stores will sell a kit they pieced together with these supplies and even kits to brew specific beers. Those are fine to use as they are made out of real supplies and generally quality ingredients.

Some of the best beers I brewed myself were recipes from Hydrobrew in Oceanside, with a few modifications of my own.

Edit: Also, do not believe everything the guy (or girl) at the brewing store says. I learned the hard way that just because they work at (or own) a brewing supply shop doesn't mean they know anything they're talking about. Ruined a 5 gallon batch of agave melomel I was making because the guy didn't carry Fermentis yeast, and I reluctantly took his yeast reccomendation for some wine yeast that never started and ruined the flavor once I got it to ferment with the yeast I actually wanted.

 

[dougp]

Do NOT use any Mr. Beer or other factory packaged brewing kit. Get real supplies such as a glass carboy, siphon, wine thief, hydrometer, proper sanitation airlocks, etc. Frequently, homebrew stores will sell a kit they pieced together with these supplies and even kits to brew specific beers. Those are fine to use as they are made out of real supplies and generally quality ingredients.

Some of the best beers I brewed myself were recipes from Hydrobrew in Oceanside, with a few modifications of my own.

Edit: Also, do not believe everything the guy (or girl) at the brewing store says. I learned the hard way that just because they work at (or own) a brewing supply shop doesn't mean they know anything they're talking about. Ruined a 5 gallon batch of agave melomel I was making because the guy didn't carry Fermentis yeast, and I reluctantly took his yeast reccomendation for some wine yeast that never started and ruined the flavor once I got it to ferment with the yeast I actually wanted.

Don't use glass carboys, they are the devil and dangerous.

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

Don't use glass carboys, they are the devil and dangerous.

I'd like to hear your reasoning for that claim.

 

[dougp]

I'd like to hear your reasoning for that claim.

Because they're dangerous?

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/broken-glass-carboy-horror-stories-compendium-376523/

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/carboy-trying-kill-you.html

 

[mmntech]

Do NOT use any Mr. Beer or other factory packaged brewing kit. Get real supplies such as a glass carboy, siphon, wine thief, hydrometer, proper sanitation airlocks, etc. Frequently, homebrew stores will sell a kit they pieced together with these supplies and even kits to brew specific beers. Those are fine to use as they are made out of real supplies and generally quality ingredients.

Some of the best beers I brewed myself were recipes from Hydrobrew in Oceanside, with a few modifications of my own.

Edit: Also, do not believe everything the guy (or girl) at the brewing store says. I learned the hard way that just because they work at (or own) a brewing supply shop doesn't mean they know anything they're talking about. Ruined a 5 gallon batch of agave melomel I was making because the guy didn't carry Fermentis yeast, and I reluctantly took his yeast reccomendation for some wine yeast that never started and ruined the flavor once I got it to ferment with the yeast I actually wanted.

That's what I figured. Anyway, it's a long term project so I probably won't be buying any equipment any time soon. Anyway, the store I found sells hops and malted barley in bulk. I see you can get sort of a condensed liquid malt in cans too. That was recommended by one site for beginners.

Don't use glass carboys, they are the devil and dangerous.

Every home brewing site I've read says not to use the glass ones. They all use food safe plastic buckets now. I have made home brew ginger ale before in a plastic bottle. Man, does the pressure increase fast.

 

[SMOGZINN]

That's what I figured. Anyway, it's a long term project so I probably won't be buying any equipment any time soon. Anyway, the store I found sells hops and malted barley in bulk. I see you can get sort of a condensed liquid malt in cans too. That was recommended by one site for beginners.


Every home brewing site I've read says not to use the glass ones. They all use food safe plastic buckets now. I have made home brew ginger ale before in a plastic bottle. Man, does the pressure increase fast.

Plastic buckets work just fine, personally I like Better Bottles

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

Because they're dangerous?

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/broken-glass-carboy-horror-stories-compendium-376523/

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/carboy-trying-kill-you.html

Obviously glass itself is dangerous. I never brew alone and I have someone with me when I handle the carboy. Some of the stories don't involve dropping them but the picture you embedded is from one about dropping it. Don't be an idiot and your chances of a glass carboy related incident will probably drop significantly.

I guess for liability's sake, don't use glass. I'll continue using it.

 

[dougp]

Obviously glass itself is dangerous. I never brew alone and I have someone with me when I handle the carboy. Some of the stories don't involve dropping them but the picture you embedded is from one about dropping it. Don't be an idiot and your chances of a glass carboy related incident will probably drop significantly.

I guess for liability's sake, don't use glass. I'll continue using it.

Here's the thing - a lot of times people are moving the carboy on their own in order to rack or change towels if they're swamp cooling, etc. and they think they can handle it or don't have any one around. I just avoid the issue, period.

I've used Better Bottles - they're nice, but a bitch to clean. I'd recommend something with a loud mouth, like a bucket or a Spiedel fermenter. That's what I use and they're fucking AWESOME.

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

Here's the thing - a lot of times people are moving the carboy on their own in order to rack or change towels if they're swamp cooling, etc. and they think they can handle it or don't have any one around. I just avoid the issue, period.

I've used Better Bottles - they're nice, but a bitch to clean. I'd recommend something with a loud mouth, like a bucket or a Spiedel fermenter. That's what I use and they're fucking AWESOME.

Those Spiedel fermenters look awesome, but pretty pricey. Have you had any problems with staining or smells lingering after fermenting in them? I don't really have anything against plastic but I've never had plastic that was as good at repelling stains and smell like good old glass.

 

[solsa]

Because they're dangerous?

Images look awful. Need to ne careful around those things.

 

[dougp]

Those Spiedel fermenters look awesome, but pretty pricey. Have you had any problems with staining or smells lingering after fermenting in them? I don't really have anything against plastic but I've never had plastic that was as good at repelling stains and smell like good old glass.

No issues with mine - you get what you put into them, though. A lot of SS 7.5g conicals are coming down in price, so that's something to consider as well. If I could get a 5g conical for my 3g batches, I'd do it in a heart beat.

 

[Garou24]

I use the buckets for my primary fermentation. If I want to lager after that or add additions to the beer once fermentation is complete, I use a better bottle. A little harder to clean than a bucket so I use them for a secondary vessel where the mess tends to be less since I have raked off the trub. Better bottles are great and buckets too. I would not use the glass since I have heard of friends having them shatter. Plus I tend to have to brew and bottle solo so moving glass by myself just sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

 

[mmntech]

Success, it still works. Though I will need to new gaskets on the cylinder. Which I'll probably make myself out of silicone aquarium sealant, which is food safe. There's a copper pipe that runs from the cylinder to the tap, which I'll replace with plastic beer line.

 

[DaTT]

Success, it still works. Though I will need to new gaskets on the cylinder. Which I'll probably make myself out of silicone aquarium sealant, which is food safe. There's a copper pipe that runs from the cylinder to the tap, which I'll replace with plastic beer line.

Does this mean we're one step closer to basement beer?