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Beamdog confirms new Baldur's Gate title in works

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bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
After looking it up, they will be using the game engine of Baldur's Gate, or the enhanced version more likely. As much as I liked the games of the time, I'm not sure I can go that far backwards in visuals and still enjoy the game. I also liked the AD&D 3.0 rules of NWN a lot more than AD&D 2.0 used in BG.

I'll have to wait and see the final product, before I make a final choice, but I personally find it disappointing. I'd much rather see a BG game with something more like the Divinity: Original Sin engine. Even if that isn't all that spectacular, it is reasonable.

I'm assuming this game is being created due to nostalgia.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
79,103
11,993
126
If there was anything to complain about with NWN, it was that they went 3d too early and the beastiary was pathetic compared to the infinity engine stuff and it looked like ass in comparison. It wasn't 'casual' in any way though.
Thats not the worst part. It was the 3D cities. You had to swing the camera around ALL THE FREAKIN TIME just to see stuff and navigate. It was a pain.
NWN 2 as well.


But NWN 2 let you have a proper party. Instead of one person and a single automated helper.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
But NWN 2 let you have a proper party. Instead of one person and a single automated helper.
It's been a long time, but I thought that was only the case with one of the expansions. I believe it had a normal party system with the original NWN game, but there was an expansion which was mostly single player, as you descended through hell.
 

BSim500

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2013
1,480
214
106
It's been a long time, but I thought that was only the case with one of the expansions. I believe it had a normal party system with the original NWN game, but there was an expansion which was mostly single player, as you descended through hell.
It was a trait of NWN 1 (even original campaign) that it was very single character focused, ie, you played a hero who could have 1x henchman, 1x animal companion / familiar and 1x summon (latter two are class dependent). That upset some people who wanted every Bioware game to be exactly like the "full party" system of earlier BG and later DAO. Personally I thought it made a nice change though. The pre-EA acquisition Bioware of 15 years ago were smart enough to understand that if you want to change / experiment with something new in a "big" way, you break it off into a new spinoff / semi-related franchise where you have the freedom to do something different without upsetting fans of the originals by changing direction too much within the same franchise (which is exactly why established AAA "reboot" / "sequel of 'heavy' game that wants to be more casual" games of today keep getting "review bombed" - a simple lesson today's "big 3" publishers are almost totally incapable of learning from).

The expansion you're referring to (Shadows of Undrentide & Hordes of the Underdark) did add a lot more though to the henchman in both AI that was programmable via conversation options, and with more humorous conversations & characters (eg, Deekin who ironically ended up having more 'character' than some very flat / wooden companion scripts in "full party" DA2/3.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
7
0
a simple lesson today's "big 3" publishers are almost totally incapable of learning from).
Because the Big 3 Publishers are ran by college MBA grads, not people who actually play games. They only look at the numbers; X was spent, game needs to sell Y. If Heavy X sold well enough to get a sequel, then, to their minds, if it was more like every other game and more casual, they could double the sales. What could go wrong?
 

kyrax12

Platinum Member
May 21, 2010
2,416
2
81
Making a BG3 would be silly because, as you said, they concluded the story and fully epilogued it. There's little else they can take it. BG3 would be nothing more than an RPG that takes place on the Sword Coast.

As much flak as you can give the 4th and 5th edition rules, the 2e rules aren't ideal either. 3.0 or 3.5 would work better while keeping the depth you want.


Instead we got Neverwinter Nights which was a slap in the face to hard core fans and probably designed to draw in casual gamers.

NWN1 and NWN2 were neither of those and both great games in their own right.

Did it fully concluded? Like after you beat that evil mage?
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
7
0
Did it fully concluded? Like after you beat that evil mage?
BG2? Yes, though in the Throne of Baal expansion. The Baalspawn story arc was concluded, with the player either being an evil god, a good god, or becoming fully human. Plus we got detailed epilogues for each party member in the game.
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,207
216
106
Beamdog is making a game for those who love the enhanced edition remakes, and I'm one of those people. I love the Infinity Engine, 2D art doesn't age like 3D does. So this is great news to me, especially since the true modern RPG successor (Pillars of Eternity) has me a little anxious if they can truly pull off the classic party based RPG feel.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
7
0
Beamdog is making a game for those who love the enhanced edition remakes, and I'm one of those people. I love the Infinity Engine, 2D art doesn't age like 3D does. So this is great news to me, especially since the true modern RPG successor (Pillars of Eternity) has me a little anxious if they can truly pull off the classic party based RPG feel.
With the EEs, they were not able to make any changes to the sprites, so we still have the low res, blurry character models. I'm curious to see if they'll b able to improve those in this 'mid-quel' game.
 

kyrax12

Platinum Member
May 21, 2010
2,416
2
81
BG2? Yes, though in the Throne of Baal expansion. The Baalspawn story arc was concluded, with the player either being an evil god, a good god, or becoming fully human. Plus we got detailed epilogues for each party member in the game.
Wait Throne of Bhaal concluded the series? I thought that was just a stand alone game.
 

Ancalagon44

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2010
3,274
202
106
No Throne of Bhaal is the basically the last part of the "trilogy" that is BG1, BG2:SoA and BG2:ToB. BG2: ToB continues where SoA left off, and concludes the Bhaalspawn saga.

After the end of Throne of Bhaal, there are no unresolved plot lines. Everything is finished.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
7
0
Wait Throne of Bhaal concluded the series? I thought that was just a stand alone game.
ToB wasn't standalone, it required BG2SOA.

No Throne of Bhaal is the basically the last part of the "trilogy" that is BG1, BG2:SoA and BG2:ToB. BG2: ToB continues where SoA left off, and concludes the Bhaalspawn saga.

After the end of Throne of Bhaal, there are no unresolved plot lines. Everything is finished.
Precisely.
 

xantub

Senior member
Feb 12, 2014
717
1
46
Why does it have to be 'Baldur's Gate'? Arent' there other cities in Forgotten Realms? It feels like New York, where every other movie is based in New York (and all disaster movies destroy New York). Dude, start a new story in a new city!
 

Kalmah

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2003
3,692
1
76
Why does it have to be 'Baldur's Gate'? Arent' there other cities in Forgotten Realms? It feels like New York, where every other movie is based in New York (and all disaster movies destroy New York). Dude, start a new story in a new city!
This x1000000000

Forgotten Realms is huge and pc gaming has barely explored any of it. Just title the game 'Forgotten Realms' and do like Squaresoft does with Final Fantasy and make Forgotten Realms++ every couple of years. Start with one badass game engine and milk it.
 

exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
8,518
7
91
If there was anything to complain about with NWN, it was that they went 3d too early and the beastiary was pathetic compared to the infinity engine stuff and it looked like ass in comparison. It wasn't 'casual' in any way though.
It also used D&D 3.0, which wasn't real great either. 3.5 was a LOT better.

I still think D&D Rules 2.5 is the best. It's pretty complicated from a tabletop perspective, but perfectly adapted for a computer game, like BG. That said, a new title using 2.5 or 3.5 type rules would be great. Seriously, RPG'ers have gotten so lazy with just focusing on DPS, real spells, weapon damage, and weapon speed are all nice to have.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
7
0
Why does it have to be 'Baldur's Gate'? Arent' there other cities in Forgotten Realms? It feels like New York, where every other movie is based in New York (and all disaster movies destroy New York). Dude, start a new story in a new city!
Nah, they've built games in three cities; Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter, and Amn. :p
BG2 never even went to Baldur's Gate either. ;)
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
This x1000000000

Forgotten Realms is huge and pc gaming has barely explored any of it. Just title the game 'Forgotten Realms' and do like Squaresoft does with Final Fantasy and make Forgotten Realms++ every couple of years. Start with one badass game engine and milk it.
The part of the news that is disappointing to me is that they are not using a new engine. They are going with the BG engine, though it likely will be the enhanced version.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
It also used D&D 3.0, which wasn't real great either. 3.5 was a LOT better.

I still think D&D Rules 2.5 is the best. It's pretty complicated from a tabletop perspective, but perfectly adapted for a computer game, like BG. That said, a new title using 2.5 or 3.5 type rules would be great. Seriously, RPG'ers have gotten so lazy with just focusing on DPS, real spells, weapon damage, and weapon speed are all nice to have.
While BG, NWN and other games of the time did a decent job bringing AD&D to the computer, all the complications of AD&D is not needed on a PC game. Much of the design was around the idea that players are rolling dice, and I can only assume, spending time plotting their progression outside the game. (I did not play table top, but I knew people who did).

Since the PC can track everything, and use more sophisticated methods to calculate damage, AD&D isn't really necessary. I actually liked what they did with DA:O. They took much of the research out of character building, yet gave way to lots of different ways to build a character. I never had to go through a rule book to figure out the best way to build my character either.

You can call it laziness, but I call it a logical progression of gaming. Now what they've done with DA:I, I don't agree with, at least not to the degree they've gone, but somewhere between DA:O and DA2, character building was fun without the need for obsessiveness.

One other thing I forgot to mention. AD&D rules left melee/archery to be pretty darn boring on a PC. I can see how their passive abilities may have still be interesting if you were rolling dice for everything, but when the PC does everything behind the scenes, their concept of game play becomes extremely boring and passive to watch. It's not a great system for PC gaming.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
13,293
2,929
136
Curse of the Azure Bonds takes place in the city of Tilverton.
Eye of the Beholder takes place in the city of Waterdeep.
Gateway to the Savage Frontier takes place in Yartar.
Hillsfar takes place in, well, the town of Hillsfar.
Icewind Dale takes place in the city of Easthaven.
Icewind Dale II takes place in the harbor town of Targos, of the Ten Towns.
Menzoberranzan takes place in the undercity of Menzoberranzan.
Pool of Radianceis set in and about the city of Phlan.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
79,103
11,993
126
Theres literally like a thousand games worth of material in Faerun and more on Abeir-Torril as a whole.
But they are trying to make money and known settings get people coming back. Known as in the sense that video gamers remember it from a recent game.
 

exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
8,518
7
91
While BG, NWN and other games of the time did a decent job bringing AD&D to the computer, all the complications of AD&D is not needed on a PC game. Much of the design was around the idea that players are rolling dice, and I can only assume, spending time plotting their progression outside the game. (I did not play table top, but I knew people who did).

Since the PC can track everything, and use more sophisticated methods to calculate damage, AD&D isn't really necessary. I actually liked what they did with DA:O. They took much of the research out of character building, yet gave way to lots of different ways to build a character. I never had to go through a rule book to figure out the best way to build my character either.

You can call it laziness, but I call it a logical progression of gaming. Now what they've done with DA:I, I don't agree with, at least not to the degree they've gone, but somewhere between DA:O and DA2, character building was fun without the need for obsessiveness.

One other thing I forgot to mention. AD&D rules left melee/archery to be pretty darn boring on a PC. I can see how their passive abilities may have still be interesting if you were rolling dice for everything, but when the PC does everything behind the scenes, their concept of game play becomes extremely boring and passive to watch. It's not a great system for PC gaming.
You are talking about two different kinds of games.

Action RPGs (DA:I) and a 'real' RPG (BG).

I like both, but what game allows you to really spec out your characters in limitless combinations? How about simulating magic in a way other than just a MMO spam-fest? How about casting spells before, during and after battle for combat and non-combat purposes?

That's the huge advantage D&D provides. The wealth of spells, skills and options is 1000x more than a game like DA:I. They don't even compare.

It IS dumbing-down...D&D isn't first and foremost about combat, it is about adventure. I think a lot of modern devs/players forget about that and think combat is the main focus. Its a piece, but not everything. That's why BG1/2 were so darn good. You could complete the game as evil, good, or somewhere in-between. You could have an all-good party, all-bad party, or mixed.
 
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motsm

Golden Member
Jan 20, 2010
1,822
2
76
Eh, no thanks. I'd rather they fix up the remakes they already released, and then move onto Icewind Dale II or Planescape Torment. Still haven't bought any of them though, waiting for them to be all brought up to the same, feature complete standard, though perhaps that will never happen.
 

exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
8,518
7
91
Theres literally like a thousand games worth of material in Faerun and more on Abeir-Torril as a whole.
But they are trying to make money and known settings get people coming back. Known as in the sense that video gamers remember it from a recent game.
This.

They have a FANTASTIC game engine and even better lore world/environment to make any story they want. Icewind Dale was never quite up to par with BG from a story perspective, but that's essentially what beamdog can create, or do even better. :)

I am officially optimistic here! Worst-case, the story is flat. Best-case, it's an amazing game and maybe a toolbox will be released for fan-made stuff too? Like from NWN...
 
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