BCS Rankings 11/7/2010

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bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,248
3
0
do we really want to lock TCU and Boise out of the NCG? If 4 teams go undefeated its entirely possible to see TCU and Boise play each other, and we certainly don't want that.
 

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
You're going to get hammered for saying this but it's really quite true. The SEC has a rep of being a tough conference because they play all of these ranked teams, except all the ranked teams they play are in the SEC. It's a circular argument: they're good because they beat ranked teams (other SEC teams) and they're ranked because they're good (because those teams beat other SEC teams).

If you want to get picky you'll notice these SEC stats:
12 teams
A total of 48 non-conference games
TWO of 48 NC games against ranked opponents (4.167%)
ONE of 48 NC games won against ranked opponents (2.083%)
ELEVEN of 48 NC games against D1-AA cupcakes (22.917%)
TWENTY-THREE of 48 NC games against "powerhouse" programs like San Jose State, Duke, Louisiana-Monroe, Arkansas State, Clemson, South Florida, Louisiana-Lafayette, Louisville, Western Kentucky, Akron, Tulane, Fresno State, Memphis, Troy, Northwestern, Connecticut, and Eastern Michigan (47.917%)

That means that the conference as a whole played 34 out of 48 (70.833%) games of their collective non-conference schedule against 1-AA teams and bad 1-A teams. 12 out of 48 (25%) games were against respectable 1-A opponents. 2 out of 48 (4.167%) were against very good 1-A opponents.

That, my friends, is nothing at all to brag about when you want to tout yourself as the best around and other people point out your non-conference xenophobia.

Please provide the equivalent stats for all the other BCS conferences.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
126
.....That, my friends, is nothing at all to brag about when you want to tout yourself as the best around and other people point out your non-conference xenophobia.

Ok, let see about other teams (in top 5 and undefeat) non-conference schedule and those mighty powerhouses are:

* Oregon = New Mexico (1 win this season), Portland State (2 wins this season)
* TCU = Tenn Tech (4 wins and 5 losses), SMU (5 wins and 5 losses), New Mexico (1 win)
* Boise St. = Wyoming (2 wins), Toledo (6 wins and 4 losses)

Very impressive non conference schedule there....NOT! LOL
 
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ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,357
8,446
126
You're going to get hammered for saying this but it's really quite true. The SEC has a rep of being a tough conference because they play all of these ranked teams, except all the ranked teams they play are in the SEC. It's a circular argument: they're good because they beat ranked teams (other SEC teams) and they're ranked because they're good (because those teams beat other SEC teams).

If you want to get picky you'll notice these SEC stats:
12 teams
A total of 48 non-conference games
TWO of 48 NC games against ranked opponents (4.167%)
ONE of 48 NC games won against ranked opponents (2.083%)
ELEVEN of 48 NC games against D1-AA cupcakes (22.917%)
TWENTY-THREE of 48 NC games against "powerhouse" programs like San Jose State, Duke, Louisiana-Monroe, Arkansas State, Clemson, South Florida, Louisiana-Lafayette, Louisville, Western Kentucky, Akron, Tulane, Fresno State, Memphis, Troy, Northwestern, Connecticut, and Eastern Michigan (47.917%)

That means that the conference as a whole played 34 out of 48 (70.833%) games of their collective non-conference schedule against 1-AA teams and bad 1-A teams. 12 out of 48 (25%) games were against respectable 1-A opponents. 2 out of 48 (4.167%) were against very good 1-A opponents.

That, my friends, is nothing at all to brag about when you want to tout yourself as the best around and other people point out your non-conference xenophobia.

nice dig
 

erikistired

Diamond Member
Sep 27, 2000
9,739
0
0
Boise St. Fucked over again. How many years have gone by without a loss? Playoffs are so badly needed its fucking rediculous.

Blah blah blah a 1 loss SEC team is better than Boise! The big schools would crush these teams!!! LOL, remember when Oklahoma was supposed to pound the shit out of Boise? Yeah, I do.

if they are truly getting fucked over they should join a major conference and prove their worth like the big boys. boise st is a joke, get over it. a 5 loss SEC team is better than an undefeated WAC team.

If the SEC is really 14 billion times harder than everyone else like people make it out to be then just crown the SEC winner the NC.

2009 - Alabama, SEC
2008 - Florida, SEC
2007 - LSU, SEC
2006 - Florida, SEC

it looks like recently that's what they've been doing. ;)

an SEC team has won every "stand alone" national championship game there has ever been (according to the BCS website this started in 2006). in the history of the bcs only twice has an SEC team made it to the final game and lost (they were represented 9 of 18 games, and won 7 of them). that's pretty impressive by my counts.
 
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skim milk

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2003
5,784
1
0
You're going to get hammered for saying this but it's really quite true. The SEC has a rep of being a tough conference because they play all of these ranked teams, except all the ranked teams they play are in the SEC. It's a circular argument: they're good because they beat ranked teams (other SEC teams) and they're ranked because they're good (because those teams beat other SEC teams).

If you want to get picky you'll notice these SEC stats:
12 teams
A total of 48 non-conference games
TWO of 48 NC games against ranked opponents (4.167%)
ONE of 48 NC games won against ranked opponents (2.083%)
ELEVEN of 48 NC games against D1-AA cupcakes (22.917%)
TWENTY-THREE of 48 NC games against "powerhouse" programs like San Jose State, Duke, Louisiana-Monroe, Arkansas State, Clemson, South Florida, Louisiana-Lafayette, Louisville, Western Kentucky, Akron, Tulane, Fresno State, Memphis, Troy, Northwestern, Connecticut, and Eastern Michigan (47.917%)

That means that the conference as a whole played 34 out of 48 (70.833%) games of their collective non-conference schedule against 1-AA teams and bad 1-A teams. 12 out of 48 (25%) games were against respectable 1-A opponents. 2 out of 48 (4.167%) were against very good 1-A opponents.

That, my friends, is nothing at all to brag about when you want to tout yourself as the best around and other people point out your non-conference xenophobia.


why the fuck would a school like Alabama purposely make their schedule even harder and kill themselves while a school like Boise cruises? The bowl records of SEC teams where they played top teams of other conferences speaks for itself

look at some of the schools ALA played this season:
#18 Penn State
#10 Arkansas
#7 Florida
#19 South Carolina
#10 LSU
#19 Mississippi State
Tennessee
#2 Auburn


ALL IN ONE SEASON. If Boise State or TCU had a schedule like that where they play teams of that caliber week after week, I'd say they would have at least 4 losses
 
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Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
126
Please provide the equivalent stats for all the other BCS conferences.

I don't have time to dig as deep as he did but I can give you the cupcakes from other BCS qualified conferences.

Pac 10 = Sacramento State, New Mexico, Portland State, Toledo, Citadel, UC Davis, Portland State......

Big 10 = UNLV, San Jose St., Austin Peay, W. Michigan, Florida Atlantic, N. Colorado, Marshall, E. Michigan.....

Big 12 = W. Kentucky, S. Dakota St., San Diego St., Miami (OH), Missouri St., N. Texas, N. Illinois, N. Iowa.....

ACC = James Madison, C. Michigan, Samford, W. Carolina, Morgan St., FIU, M. Tenn., Florida A&M.....

Big East = New Hampshire, Akron, Maine, Colgate, Indiana St., C. Carolina, Texas Southern, Buffalo.....


Look like ALL BCS qualified conferences are as guilty.
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,582
2,817
136
why the fuck would a school like Alabama purposely make their schedule even harder and kill themselves while a school like Boise cruises? The bowl records of SEC teams where they played top teams of other conferences speaks for itself

look at some of the schools ALA played this season:
#18 Penn State
#10 Arkansas
#7 Florida
#19 South Carolina
#10 LSU
#19 Mississippi State
Tennessee
#2 Auburn


ALL IN ONE SEASON. If Boise State or TCU had a schedule like that where they play teams of that caliber week after week, I'd say they would have at least 4 losses

You obviously didn't read the thread. One person said the SEC was the toughest conference because they play a bunch of ranked teams. Another person pointed out the fallacy in that statement: they play a bunch of ranked SEC teams. The SEC plays other SEC teams but their collective non-conference schedule is a farce, so we never really see how well the conference stacks up against other conferences. I agreed with that person and pointed out the circuity of the "SEC is toughest" argument and backed it up with their collective cupcake of a NC schedule.

Then you went and fell into the trap.
 

thepd7

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2005
9,423
0
0
I'm SHOCKED so many people came out in support of the SEC.

Where did I say there were no good SEC teams? Where did I say a one loss SEC team shouldn't be rated higher than a one loss Mountain West team?

What I pointed out is that the SEC is overrated, and that's true.



1. Ok, I'll agree to this. IF they'd won out (knowing my chokies that's not possible) then I would expect them to be up at the top but overall, the caliber of the teams the Hokies play is much better than that of the MWC or WAC.

2. Yes. Without any hesitation. The ACC would add credibility to their accomplishment.

So you're saying that VT's schedule this year is harder than Boise State's? Does anyone have a strength of schedule link? That would be interesting to compare.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
31
91
There is one truth in college football conversation every year and that is someone will surely say the SEC is overrated. I don't even know what that means but I know it gets said every year.
 

roguerower

Diamond Member
Nov 18, 2004
4,563
0
76
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nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
if they are truly getting fucked over they should join a major conference and prove their worth like the big boys. boise st is a joke, get over it. a 5 loss SEC team is better than an undefeated WAC team.


So Ol Miss would beat Boise? HAHAHA, ok now we all know you are clueless.
 

ZOOYUKA

Platinum Member
Jan 24, 2005
2,460
0
0
Another thing to consider is Boise St has 14 weeks to play 12 games. Auburn for example more than likely will have to play 13 games in 14 weeks.

So...the one with the softer schedule gets an extra bye week and the one with the tougher schedule has to play extra game.

Doesn't seem hardly fair. Conferences that don't have championship games should be required to finish their regular season in 13 weeks just like everyone else. They already have the luxury of a softer schedule and no championship game, why should they get the bonus of extra rest?
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,582
2,817
136
Please provide the equivalent stats for all the other BCS conferences.

I have the Pac-10 handy, so here it is (SEC equivalents in [Brackets]):

10 teams
A total of 30 non-conference games
EIGHT of 30 NC games against ranked opponents (26.667%) [4.167%]
ONE of 30 NC games won against ranked opponents (3.333%) [2.083%]
FIVE of 30 NC games against D1-AA cupcakes (16.667%) [22.917%]
NINE of 30 NC games against "powerhouse" programs like Toledo, Citadel, Northern Arizona, New Mexico, Louisville, Wake Forest, Virginia, Syracuse, and Southern Methodist (30%) [47.917%]

That means that the conference as a whole played 14 out of 30 (46.667%) [70.833%] games of their collective non-conference schedule against 1-AA teams and bad 1-A teams. 8 out of 30 (26.667%) [25%] games were against respectable 1-A opponents. 8 out of 30 (26.667%) [4.167%] were against very good 1-A opponents.


So, when you compare the SEC and Pac-10 NC schedules you get:

The Pac-10 played more ranked NC teams in absolute and relative numbers
The Pac-10 won more NC games against ranked opponents in relative numbers and the two conferences tied in absolute numbers
The SEC played more games against 1-AA cupcakes both in absolute and relative numbers
The SEC played more games against bad 1-A teams in both absolute and relative numbers
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,582
2,817
136
I also got the Big-12 (SEC equivalents in [Brackets]):

12 teams
A total of 48 non-conference games
FOUR of 48 NC games against ranked opponents (8.333%) [4.167%]
ZERO of 48 NC games won against ranked opponents (0%) [2.083%]
EIGHT of 48 NC games against D1-AA cupcakes (16.667%) [22.917%]
TWENTY-TWO of 48 NC games against "powerhouse" programs like Western Kentucky, San Diego State, Miami- OH, UCF, North Texas, Northern Illinois, Southern Miss, New Mexico State, Colorado State, Troy, Tulsa, Louisiana-Lafayette, Buffalo, Rice, Louisiana Tech, Florida International, Utah State, Southern Methodist, New Mexico, Wyoming, and Florida Atlantic (45.833%) [47.917%]

That means that the conference as a whole played 30 out of 48 (62.5%) [70.833%] games of their collective non-conference schedule against 1-AA teams and bad 1-A teams. 14 out of 48 (29.167%) [25%] games were against respectable 1-A opponents. 4 out of 48 (8.333%) [4.167%] were against very good 1-A opponents.


So, when you compare the SEC and Big-12 NC schedules you get:

The Big-12 played more ranked NC teams in absolute and relative numbers
The SEC won more NC games against ranked opponents in absolute and relative numbers
The SEC played more games against 1-AA cupcakes both in absolute and relative numbers
The SEC played more games against bad 1-A teams in both absolute and relative numbers
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,103
1,550
126
So Ol Miss would beat Boise? HAHAHA, ok now we all know you are clueless.

I think any of us who don't have your tongue up the ass of the SEC realize that the only teams that would have a legitamite chance of beating Boise State in the SEC are LSU and Auburn. Alabama would likely play them well.

And your SEC buffers love to tout their 4 consecutive NC wins, but the problem is that they got those largely due to a flawed BCS system and some luck. Last 4 are Florida, LSU, Florida, Bama.

Florida (06 season). Ohio State is undefeated and a 1-loss Michigan and a 1-loss Florida both have a legitamite claim to the BCS NC Game birth. Michigan's claim is technically stronger, but no one wants a rematch. Florida goes, proves OSU was weaker than their record indicated. Florida is a legit national champion.

LSU (07 season). Despite losing in their final regular season game, LSU goes to the NC game after beating Tennessee in the SEC championship game. Their opponent is OSU though most people know it will be disappointing as USC, UGA, and Kansas all look like better teams. LSU destroys OSU though they didn't face the best opponent they could have. The nation is saddened by the failure of the BCS.

Florida (08 season). Oklahoma goes to the game despite a loss to a 1-loss Texas. Utah is the only undefeated team in the nation. Oklahoma looks like crap against Florida. Texas looks very good against OSU. Utah beats Bama with a larger margin of victory than Florida beat them in the SEC Championship game. Somehow Florida gets a national championship while Utah finished ranked 2nd in one major poll and 4th in the other.

Bama (09 season). At least 5 teams can lay legit claim to a birth. Texas, Bama, Boise St, TCU, Cincinatti. Cinci loses their coach before the bowl game and looks like crap. Boise St and TCU have a defensive slugfest. Texas loses winningest QB in college football history to injury after 5 offensive plays (that went for 27 yards, over 5 yards a play). Texas still manages to keep Bama offense from scoring for most of the game. Rookie QB is responsible for 5 turnovers, including 1 before the half that is a pick 6, and 2 in the final minutes that lead to 13 Bama points off a total of 30 offensive yards. With the way the game went it's apparant with McCoy in the game that Texas would likely have won.
 

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
I think any of us who don't have your tongue up the ass of the SEC realize that the only teams that would have a legitamite chance of beating Boise State in the SEC are LSU and Auburn. Alabama would likely play them well.

And your SEC buffers love to tout their 4 consecutive NC wins, but the problem is that they got those largely due to a flawed BCS system and some luck. Last 4 are Florida, LSU, Florida, Bama.

Florida (06 season). Ohio State is undefeated and a 1-loss Michigan and a 1-loss Florida both have a legitamite claim to the BCS NC Game birth. Michigan's claim is technically stronger, but no one wants a rematch. Florida goes, proves OSU was weaker than their record indicated. Florida is a legit national champion.

LSU (07 season). Despite losing in their final regular season game, LSU goes to the NC game after beating Tennessee in the SEC championship game. Their opponent is OSU though most people know it will be disappointing as USC, UGA, and Kansas all look like better teams. LSU destroys OSU though they didn't face the best opponent they could have. The nation is saddened by the failure of the BCS.

Florida (08 season). Oklahoma goes to the game despite a loss to a 1-loss Texas. Utah is the only undefeated team in the nation. Oklahoma looks like crap against Florida. Texas looks very good against OSU. Utah beats Bama with a larger margin of victory than Florida beat them in the SEC Championship game. Somehow Florida gets a national championship while Utah finished ranked 2nd in one major poll and 4th in the other.

Bama (09 season). At least 5 teams can lay legit claim to a birth. Texas, Bama, Boise St, TCU, Cincinatti. Cinci loses their coach before the bowl game and looks like crap. Boise St and TCU have a defensive slugfest. Texas loses winningest QB in college football history to injury after 5 offensive plays (that went for 27 yards, over 5 yards a play). Texas still manages to keep Bama offense from scoring for most of the game. Rookie QB is responsible for 5 turnovers, including 1 before the half that is a pick 6, and 2 in the final minutes that lead to 13 Bama points off a total of 30 offensive yards. With the way the game went it's apparant with McCoy in the game that Texas would likely have won.
Or not. Your excuse making says everything.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,103
1,550
126
Or not. Your excuse making says everything.

My point is that if you don't beat the best team it's hard to say you deserve the be national champions. If you look at the history, there's been a lot of not really the best team getting in the NC game due to a flawed system. The current system isn't letting schools like Boise St and TCU have a voice very often, if ever.

A good example would be a not too illogical "what would happen if.." that could happen this year.
Let's say Auburn wins out to the SEC championship game and loses to a team from the east. Not likely, but with the possibility of Cam Newton suspension, it's not entirely unlikely. In that scenario, assuming no one else surprising loses, what 10 teams go to the BCS?

Conference winners will likely be
Oregon
Nebraska
VT
Pitt
Florida (remember this is assuming they are the east champions and manage to beat Auburn)
Michigan State (I think they have the edge right now on tie breakers)

Then you have 4 at large teams. The most likely based on current rankings
TCU (most likely in NC game)
LSU (1 loss, beat Bama, ranked in top 5, Auburn misses out as only 2 teams can go from 1 conference)
And two more teams. Which from the current crop would be picked from the likeliest group of Stanford, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Boise St.

Now considering the money, the most likely two picked would be Ohio State and Stanford. So Boise State could be ranked 3rd or 4th and not even make it into a BCS bowl in a situation that's not even that unlikely!
 

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
My point is that if you don't beat the best team it's hard to say you deserve the be national champions. If you look at the history, there's been a lot of not really the best team getting in the NC game due to a flawed system. The current system isn't letting schools like Boise St and TCU have a voice very often, if ever.

A good example would be a not too illogical "what would happen if.." that could happen this year.
Let's say Auburn wins out to the SEC championship game and loses to a team from the east. Not likely, but with the possibility of Cam Newton suspension, it's not entirely unlikely. In that scenario, assuming no one else surprising loses, what 10 teams go to the BCS?

Conference winners will likely be
Oregon
Nebraska
VT
Pitt
Florida (remember this is assuming they are the east champions and manage to beat Auburn)
Michigan State (I think they have the edge right now on tie breakers)

Then you have 4 at large teams. The most likely based on current rankings
TCU (most likely in NC game)
LSU (1 loss, beat Bama, ranked in top 5, Auburn misses out as only 2 teams can go from 1 conference)
And two more teams. Which from the current crop would be picked from the likeliest group of Stanford, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Boise St.

Now considering the money, the most likely two picked would be Ohio State and Stanford. So Boise State could be ranked 3rd or 4th and not even make it into a BCS bowl in a situation that's not even that unlikely!

If you're arguing for a playoff, I'm all for it.
 

roguerower

Diamond Member
Nov 18, 2004
4,563
0
76
Even in a playoff system though, there is always the chance that a lower ranked team will find it in themselves to beat a powerhouse favorite and then go on to get blown out in their next game. You never know.

On one hand, there is the BCS which is considered by many to be a flawed setup which is further compounded with preseason rankings which can hurt rather than help.

But on the opposite hand, many people forget that when it comes right down to it, the human factor in the equation is an unknown. Just this past week you had #8 Oklahoma lose to Texas A&M and #12 Mizzou lose to Texas Tech. Are Oklahoma & Mizzou really that bad and A&M & Tech that good. Not in the big picture. But the two underdogs had it in themselves to win.

The BCS is flawed. A playoff system will be flawed. There will never be a perfect system for determining the national champion so long as the human factor is involved.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,103
1,550
126
If you're arguing for a playoff, I'm all for it.

I normally wouldn't. I hate the idea of a playoff system. But if Boise finished regular season in the top 5 and misses making a BCS game, I'd be pissed as they've earned it. But because of the way it's setup and there being no requirement to take them, they might not make it.
 

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
I normally wouldn't. I hate the idea of a playoff system. But if Boise finished regular season in the top 5 and misses making a BCS game, I'd be pissed as they've earned it. But because of the way it's setup and there being no requirement to take them, they might not make it.
I agree it sucks that Boise wouldn't have an opportunity at all if Auburn and Oregon win out. Kind of means their whole season didn't matter. I hate the system too, but it's what we're stuck with.