BBC Documentary Reveals Al-Qaeda Is A Complete Fabrication

[theflyingpig]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: datalink7
There is Al-Qaeda in Iraq. Not saying they were there at first, but they are there now and not "invented."

We know, we know...every few months we kill/capture a high-ranking member of their vast and powerful network...reminding us we're making just enough progress to stay, but never enough progress to leave.

I wouldn't know about high ranking members. I only patrol local neighborhoods. Big targets are more in the sphere of Special Forces as opposed to the normal Infantry, like me. But there is a local Al-Qaeda faction we deal with and their numbers aren't "1 or 2." They do have a widespread network though their power varies depending on the location.

Let me guess, Al Qaeda now wears "AQ" hats when attacking soldiers. It has become increasingly evident that any "rebellion" is labeled "Al Qaeda". I am not saying there is no AQ there, just the numbers are probably overblown. I would like to know how you (being a soldier from what I gather) decide who is or isn't Al Qaeda. Who actually defines them?

It's all a vast NEOCON conspiracy to make you FEAR AL QAEDA. Who defines them you ask? The NEOCON COMMANDERS who are also a part of this conspiracy of EVIL, thats who! They want you to believe that there are MILLIONS of AL QAEDA TERRORISTS in Iraq so they can justify staying there longer. Why do they want to stay longer? Because they are all PROFITING from this war! Don't you see?! The longer we stay, the more the NEOCONS profit! AL QAEDA is nothing more than a NEOCON fabrication!

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: datalink7
There is Al-Qaeda in Iraq. Not saying they were there at first, but they are there now and not "invented."

We know, we know...every few months we kill/capture a high-ranking member of their vast and powerful network...reminding us we're making just enough progress to stay, but never enough progress to leave.

I wouldn't know about high ranking members. I only patrol local neighborhoods. Big targets are more in the sphere of Special Forces as opposed to the normal Infantry, like me. But there is a local Al-Qaeda faction we deal with and their numbers aren't "1 or 2." They do have a widespread network though their power varies depending on the location.

Let me guess, Al Qaeda now wears "AQ" hats when attacking soldiers. It has become increasingly evident that any "rebellion" is labeled "Al Qaeda". I am not saying there is no AQ there, just the numbers are probably overblown. I would like to know how you (being a soldier from what I gather) decide who is or isn't Al Qaeda. Who actually defines them?

Generally we don't decide. Either they will tell us themselves when we capture them or, more likely, locals will identify them as being associated with a certain group. We don't randomly say "all bad guys are Al-Qaeda." There is the Al-Mahadhi Militia (Al-Sadrs group, JAM), Army of Islam, Badr Corps, Al-Qaeda, 1980 Corps, and many other groups. And some of these groups are split into sub-groups. It is all very complicated and we have people dedicated to keeping track of it all. And yes, there is Al-Qaeda. And yes, we do identify them correctly. They don't have to wear an "Al-Qaeda" hat to be identified.

Now you are correct that the whole Al-Qaeda thing is a bit overblown in some areas. The media loves to talk about them, whereas they don't talk a lot about other problem groups. Out of the groups mentioned above (and some unmentioned), they haven't even come close to causing my Company the most problems. But there are other areas (mostly out of Baghdad) where they are a lot stronger.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: theflyingpig

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: datalink7
There is Al-Qaeda in Iraq. Not saying they were there at first, but they are there now and not "invented."

We know, we know...every few months we kill/capture a high-ranking member of their vast and powerful network...reminding us we're making just enough progress to stay, but never enough progress to leave.

I wouldn't know about high ranking members. I only patrol local neighborhoods. Big targets are more in the sphere of Special Forces as opposed to the normal Infantry, like me. But there is a local Al-Qaeda faction we deal with and their numbers aren't "1 or 2." They do have a widespread network though their power varies depending on the location.

Let me guess, Al Qaeda now wears "AQ" hats when attacking soldiers. It has become increasingly evident that any "rebellion" is labeled "Al Qaeda". I am not saying there is no AQ there, just the numbers are probably overblown. I would like to know how you (being a soldier from what I gather) decide who is or isn't Al Qaeda. Who actually defines them?

It's all a vast NEOCON conspiracy to make you FEAR AL QAEDA. Who defines them you ask? The NEOCON COMMANDERS who are also a part of this conspiracy of EVIL, thats who! They want you to believe that there are MILLIONS of AL QAEDA TERRORISTS in Iraq so they can justify staying there longer. Why do they want to stay longer? Because they are all PROFITING from this war! Don't you see?! The longer we stay, the more the NEOCONS profit! AL QAEDA is nothing more than a NEOCON fabrication!

Interesting first post.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: datalink7

Generally we don't decide. Either they will tell us themselves when we capture them or, more likely, locals will identify them as being associated with a certain group. We don't randomly say "all bad guys are Al-Qaeda." There is the Al-Mahadhi Militia (Al-Sadrs group, JAM), Army of Islam, Badr Corps, Al-Qaeda, 1980 Corps, and many other groups. And some of these groups are split into sub-groups. It is all very complicated and we have people dedicated to keeping track of it all. And yes, there is Al-Qaeda. And yes, we do identify them correctly. They don't have to wear an "Al-Qaeda" hat to be identified.

Now you are correct that the whole Al-Qaeda thing is a bit overblown in some areas. The media loves to talk about them, whereas they don't talk a lot about other problem groups. Out of the groups mentioned above (and some unmentioned), they haven't even come close to causing my Company the most problems. But there are other areas (mostly out of Baghdad) where they are a lot stronger.

Thanks :thumbsup:

 

[Noobtastic]

BBC was criticized along with the rest of the media for trumping up the WMD charges against Saddam Hussein

so..??

are you telling me that because bbc went with the wmd scare theyre record of an antiisraeli and pro-arab bias just goes away?


try harder.

 

[1prophet]

Bush and Clinton in on this fabrication together? Text

"It's been said, and I think it's accurate, that my husband was obsessed by terrorism in general and al-Qaida in particular."

On 16 April 2004, Dateline NBC aired an interview with New York's junior senator, Hillary Rodham Clinton, conducted by Katy Couric. The following question-and-answer exchange regarding the 9/11 Commission (which was then investigating the September 11 terrorist attacks upon the United States) was part of that interview:
Couric: "How do you feel when people say, 'Well the Clinton administration should've done this, they should've responded more forcefully to the USS Cole. There were many things that could've been done prior to the Bush administration taking over, things that weren't done.'"

Clinton: "I think that is one of the questions that this commission should help us answer. It's been said, and I think it's accurate, that my husband was obsessed by terrorism in general and al-Qaida in particular. And they did a lot. But there's always room for analysis about what more could've or should've been done. And I think that's true with the Bush administration."
Chapter 4 of the 9/11 Commission Report ("Responses to Al Qaeda's Initial Assaults"), issued a few months later, noted:
[White House Terrorism Advisor Richard] Clarke hoped the August 1998 missile strikes [launched by the Clinton administration against Bin Ladin camps in Afghanistan] would mark the beginning of a sustained campaign against Bin Ladin. Clarke was, as he later admitted, "obsessed" with Bin Ladin, and the [August 1998] embassy bombings [in Kenya and Tanzania] gave him new scope for pursuing his obsession. Terrorism had moved high up among the President's concerns, and Clarke's position had elevated accordingly.

You need to watch these films (power of nightmares) in order together and not cherry pick one over the other.

And after that watch Century of Self to gain a perspective of why things are the way they are today.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Craig234
Thanks, that's an excellent video. What a contrast to the US media reports.

I watch BBC america a lot .
They have a nightly news show at 7pm est.
It really is way different than the US media.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I don't have 59 min right now, but I have NEVER seen a quantification for the forces of Al Queda. I have suspected fom day one that they are far less numerous and influential than the Bush admin thinks. Al Queda is almost a synoym for terrorist. The group must marvel at the free press it gets.

They are camel riders, living in caves, drinking goat milk. The only weapons they had were old AK-47's and ammo from the Soviet Unions invasion. They didn't have the vast technological army we were spoon fed to believe. Hell, Saddam's army was more threatening and you see how well armed they were now.

al-Qaeda must have superior numbers, equipment and training to our own military. How else could they survive for 7 years against our forces in Afghanistan, and at the same time also install themselves into Iraq under our watch? Quite an amazing feat.

Maybe we should start recruiting from their ranks?

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Yeah, there was no al Qaeda before GW Bush came along. All the references to AQ from the Clinton admin were evidently planted in government archives by those nefarious neo-cons.

:roll:

It's ironic that the very same people who make absurd claims about fearmongering and manipulation by our government regularly employ those very same tactics themselves. But don't be afraid of some disorganized rag-tag militant Islamic group that flies planes into buildings and blows up buses (even though their ranks have allegedly swollen incredibly, according to these same fearmongers). Keep an eye out for those jackbooted thugs dropping from black helicopters instead.

Sheesh. The idiocy is just incredible.

:roll:

The only idiocy is see here is your own. The documentary makes no such claim or reference.

Didn't watch all three parts, eh?

Curtis claims that al Qaeda was "invented" in 2001. That is patently false.

He does this where in the documentary?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Yeah, there was no al Qaeda before GW Bush came along. All the references to AQ from the Clinton admin were evidently planted in government archives by those nefarious neo-cons.

:roll:

It's ironic that the very same people who make absurd claims about fearmongering and manipulation by our government regularly employ those very same tactics themselves. But don't be afraid of some disorganized rag-tag militant Islamic group that flies planes into buildings and blows up buses (even though their ranks have allegedly swollen incredibly, according to these same fearmongers). Keep an eye out for those jackbooted thugs dropping from black helicopters instead.

Sheesh. The idiocy is just incredible.

:roll:

The only idiocy is see here is your own. The documentary makes no such claim or reference.

Didn't watch all three parts, eh?

Curtis claims that al Qaeda was "invented" in 2001. That is patently false.

He does this where in the documentary?

Watch it and find out.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Yeah, there was no al Qaeda before GW Bush came along. All the references to AQ from the Clinton admin were evidently planted in government archives by those nefarious neo-cons.

:roll:

It's ironic that the very same people who make absurd claims about fearmongering and manipulation by our government regularly employ those very same tactics themselves. But don't be afraid of some disorganized rag-tag militant Islamic group that flies planes into buildings and blows up buses (even though their ranks have allegedly swollen incredibly, according to these same fearmongers). Keep an eye out for those jackbooted thugs dropping from black helicopters instead.

Sheesh. The idiocy is just incredible.

:roll:

The only idiocy is see here is your own. The documentary makes no such claim or reference.

Didn't watch all three parts, eh?

Curtis claims that al Qaeda was "invented" in 2001. That is patently false.

Al Qaeda wasn't "invented", but the Neoconservatives *did* "invent" their vast technological intricate army. Al Qaeda and their super secret caves show us the lengths of the lies and fear mongering agenda.

Uh huh.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f...=&spon=&pagewanted=all

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Yeah, there was no al Qaeda before GW Bush came along. All the references to AQ from the Clinton admin were evidently planted in government archives by those nefarious neo-cons.

:roll:

It's ironic that the very same people who make absurd claims about fearmongering and manipulation by our government regularly employ those very same tactics themselves. But don't be afraid of some disorganized rag-tag militant Islamic group that flies planes into buildings and blows up buses (even though their ranks have allegedly swollen incredibly, according to these same fearmongers). Keep an eye out for those jackbooted thugs dropping from black helicopters instead.

Sheesh. The idiocy is just incredible.

:roll:

The only idiocy is see here is your own. The documentary makes no such claim or reference.

Didn't watch all three parts, eh?

Curtis claims that al Qaeda was "invented" in 2001. That is patently false.

Al Qaeda wasn't "invented", but the Neoconservatives *did* "invent" their vast technological intricate army. Al Qaeda and their super secret caves show us the lengths of the lies and fear mongering agenda.

Uh huh.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f...=&spon=&pagewanted=all

What is your point? That article is from 2001.

 

[JSt0rm]

You all can argue over the finer details of this but you have to admit that the lines drawn between the neocons and the fundamentalist are interesting. Humans are so weird. Why can't our minds move to a level beyond all of this crap. Thats the real question. Are we doomed to constantly repeat horror and destruction on ourselves? Some bug in the programming no doubt.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Yeah, there was no al Qaeda before GW Bush came along. All the references to AQ from the Clinton admin were evidently planted in government archives by those nefarious neo-cons.

:roll:

It's ironic that the very same people who make absurd claims about fearmongering and manipulation by our government regularly employ those very same tactics themselves. But don't be afraid of some disorganized rag-tag militant Islamic group that flies planes into buildings and blows up buses (even though their ranks have allegedly swollen incredibly, according to these same fearmongers). Keep an eye out for those jackbooted thugs dropping from black helicopters instead.

Sheesh. The idiocy is just incredible.

:roll:

The only idiocy is see here is your own. The documentary makes no such claim or reference.

Didn't watch all three parts, eh?

Curtis claims that al Qaeda was "invented" in 2001. That is patently false.

Al Qaeda wasn't "invented", but the Neoconservatives *did* "invent" their vast technological intricate army. Al Qaeda and their super secret caves show us the lengths of the lies and fear mongering agenda.

Uh huh.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f...=&spon=&pagewanted=all

What is your point?

My point is that you're such a paranoid retard with your government persecution complex fantasies that you can't separate fact from fiction.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Yeah, there was no al Qaeda before GW Bush came along. All the references to AQ from the Clinton admin were evidently planted in government archives by those nefarious neo-cons.

:roll:

It's ironic that the very same people who make absurd claims about fearmongering and manipulation by our government regularly employ those very same tactics themselves. But don't be afraid of some disorganized rag-tag militant Islamic group that flies planes into buildings and blows up buses (even though their ranks have allegedly swollen incredibly, according to these same fearmongers). Keep an eye out for those jackbooted thugs dropping from black helicopters instead.

Sheesh. The idiocy is just incredible.

:roll:

The only idiocy is see here is your own. The documentary makes no such claim or reference.

Didn't watch all three parts, eh?

Curtis claims that al Qaeda was "invented" in 2001. That is patently false.

Al Qaeda wasn't "invented", but the Neoconservatives *did* "invent" their vast technological intricate army. Al Qaeda and their super secret caves show us the lengths of the lies and fear mongering agenda.

Uh huh.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f...=&spon=&pagewanted=all

What is your point?

My point is that you're such a paranoid retard with your government persecution complex fantasies that you can't separate fact from fiction.

So how is an article from 2001 showing me to be a "paranoid retard" or "government persecution complex"? The video of your beloved Rumsfeld claims there are high tech Al Qaeda caves. Yet none of them have been found. It is you who are delusional and need a wakeup call.

 

[glenn1]

Doesn't it seem strange that we need a constant force of 150,000 troops, almost as many civilian contractors, and expenditures over $500 million per day to chase down some guys with AK-47s? I thought we're the greatest military power in the entire world? Why is the job still unfinished 7 years later?

You're right - we are wasting money fighting Al Qaeda. After all, they only target places like NYC where rich people and Democrats live, and who gives a shit about those folks? If anything, we need to stop spending money defending the likes of them and instead focus on the important stuff, like raising the taxes on all those rich people and universal healthcare.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Yeah, there was no al Qaeda before GW Bush came along. All the references to AQ from the Clinton admin were evidently planted in government archives by those nefarious neo-cons.

:roll:

It's ironic that the very same people who make absurd claims about fearmongering and manipulation by our government regularly employ those very same tactics themselves. But don't be afraid of some disorganized rag-tag militant Islamic group that flies planes into buildings and blows up buses (even though their ranks have allegedly swollen incredibly, according to these same fearmongers). Keep an eye out for those jackbooted thugs dropping from black helicopters instead.

Sheesh. The idiocy is just incredible.

:roll:

The only idiocy is see here is your own. The documentary makes no such claim or reference.

Didn't watch all three parts, eh?

Curtis claims that al Qaeda was "invented" in 2001. That is patently false.

Al Qaeda wasn't "invented", but the Neoconservatives *did* "invent" their vast technological intricate army. Al Qaeda and their super secret caves show us the lengths of the lies and fear mongering agenda.

Uh huh.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f...=&spon=&pagewanted=all

What is your point?

My point is that you're such a paranoid retard with your government persecution complex fantasies that you can't separate fact from fiction.

So how is an article from 2001 showing me to be a "paranoid retard" or "government persecution complex"? The video of your beloved Rumsfeld claims there are high tech Al Qaeda caves. Yet none of them have been found. It is you who are delusional and need a wakeup call.

You're the tard trotting out conspiracy theories in here all the time that you can't back up. I don't give a shit if the caves aren't identical to Rumsfeld's picture. There are caves there and quite an extensive network of them:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f...F934A35757C0A9649C8B63

Some 500 troops from the Army's 101st Airborne Division arrived here this afternoon after the five-day mission, which took them into the subterranean complex in Khost Province near the border with Pakistan. The men said they had ventured into more than 15 caves, some of them hundreds of feet deep, complete with bedrooms, warehouses and even iron-barred jail cells. After cleaning out the caves, the men used C-4 explosives and antitank missiles to seal them.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: glenn1

Doesn't it seem strange that we need a constant force of 150,000 troops, almost as many civilian contractors, and expenditures over $500 million per day to chase down some guys with AK-47s? I thought we're the greatest military power in the entire world? Why is the job still unfinished 7 years later?

You're right - we are wasting money fighting Al Qaeda. After all, they only target places like NYC where rich people and Democrats live, and who gives a shit about those folks? If anything, we need to stop spending money defending the likes of them and instead focus on the important stuff, like raising the taxes on all those rich people and universal healthcare.

How many wars did we start after the Oklahoma City bombing?

Remember, 9/11 occurred because of two dozen men and $500,000 (and embarrassingly lax airport/airplane security). Wars are useful for stopping armies and nations; wars will never stop the will of a few men with a little money and some box cutters.

Ask yourself why al-Qaeda, in the face of the most powerful military in the world, has been able to survive and expand? Is our military and our tactics really that incompetent, or was this war ever about destroying our enemy in the first place? How else do you justify spending $3.5 billion per week without trumping up the ability of our enemies?

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

You're the tard trotting out conspiracy theories in here all the time that you can't back up. I don't give a shit if the caves aren't identical to Rumsfeld's picture. There are caves there and quite an extensive network of them:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f...F934A35757C0A9649C8B63

Some 500 troops from the Army's 101st Airborne Division arrived here this afternoon after the five-day mission, which took them into the subterranean complex in Khost Province near the border with Pakistan. The men said they had ventured into more than 15 caves, some of them hundreds of feet deep, complete with bedrooms, warehouses and even iron-barred jail cells. After cleaning out the caves, the men used C-4 explosives and antitank missiles to seal them.

The only conspiracy theory here is Rumsfelds and here you are trying to prove it. Yet you haven't. Do we have to do this with you again? How many times have you stuck your foot in your mouth in the past month? Each time trying to persuade the topic to something different. You may be good at debating IRL, but on an internet forum its all to easy to read what you say and catch your spin tactics.

So where is all the high tech/self sufficient/holes big enough for a truck caves at? LOL There aren't any. Give it up and wake up. Stop spreading your conspiracy theory as we have already woken up from your paranoid delusional fearmongering.

EDIT: Its also an old article circa 2002.

 

[glenn1]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: glenn1

Doesn't it seem strange that we need a constant force of 150,000 troops, almost as many civilian contractors, and expenditures over $500 million per day to chase down some guys with AK-47s? I thought we're the greatest military power in the entire world? Why is the job still unfinished 7 years later?

You're right - we are wasting money fighting Al Qaeda. After all, they only target places like NYC where rich people and Democrats live, and who gives a shit about those folks? If anything, we need to stop spending money defending the likes of them and instead focus on the important stuff, like raising the taxes on all those rich people and universal healthcare.

How many wars did we start after the Oklahoma City bombing?

Remember, 9/11 occurred because of two dozen men and $500,000 (and embarrassingly lax airport/airplane security). Wars are useful for stopping armies and nations; wars will never stop the will of a few men with a little money and some box cutters.

Ask yourself why al-Qaeda, in the face of the most powerful military in the world, has been able to survive and expand? Is our military and our tactics really that incompetent, or was this war ever about destroying our enemy in the first place? How else do you justify spending $3.5 billion per week without trumping up the ability of our enemies?

You seem to think I'm not serious about what I said.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

You're the tard trotting out conspiracy theories in here all the time that you can't back up. I don't give a shit if the caves aren't identical to Rumsfeld's picture. There are caves there and quite an extensive network of them:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f...F934A35757C0A9649C8B63

Some 500 troops from the Army's 101st Airborne Division arrived here this afternoon after the five-day mission, which took them into the subterranean complex in Khost Province near the border with Pakistan. The men said they had ventured into more than 15 caves, some of them hundreds of feet deep, complete with bedrooms, warehouses and even iron-barred jail cells. After cleaning out the caves, the men used C-4 explosives and antitank missiles to seal them.

The only conspiracy theory here is Rumsfelds and here you are trying to prove it. Yet you haven't. Do we have to do this with you again? How many times have you stuck your foot in your mouth in the past month? Each time trying to persuade the topic to something different. You may be good at debating IRL, but on an internet forum its all to easy to read what you say and catch your spin tactics.

So where is all the high tech/self sufficient/holes big enough for a truck caves at? LOL There aren't any. Give it up and wake up. Stop spreading your conspiracy theory as we have already woken up from your paranoid delusional fearmongering.

EDIT: Its also an old article circa 2002.

No, stupid. You're trying to claim I'm backing up Rumsfeld when I'm not, so stop with your usual doltishness.

You're the one trying to claim that the caves like Rumsfeld's picture haevn't been found so it must follow that there really aren't any caves at all, and therefore AQ is some grand invention too. As I've shown there are caves, quite a few of them.

btw, you should never, ever speak about sticking one's foot in their mouth. How's that Iranian oil bourse and the Euro taking over for the dollar going? Do I really need to dig up some of the crap you've trotted out in here recently? Crap that you make grandiose conspiracy claims about and then slink off to pretend as if you never made those claims when your little fantasies about the neo-cons and other shady organizations being out to get everyone don't come true, you wierdo?

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
The men said they had ventured into more than 15 caves, some of them hundreds of feet deep

...caves often are deep...

complete with bedrooms

...straw mattresses on the floor...

warehouses

...caverns...

and even iron-barred jail cells

...a major feat of 21st century engineering...

After cleaning out the caves, the men used C-4 explosives and antitank missiles to seal them.

We have YouTube videos of puppies being thrown off cliffs, but no video or photographic evidence of these super-caves.

And now, because we've sealed them, we never will. But have faith in our military and intelligence community when they claim they existed; it's not like they've ever misled the public before.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
The men said they had ventured into more than 15 caves, some of them hundreds of feet deep

...caves often are deep...

complete with bedrooms

...straw mattresses on the floor...

warehouses

...caverns...

and even iron-barred jail cells

...a major feat of 21st century engineering...

After cleaning out the caves, the men used C-4 explosives and antitank missiles to seal them.

We have YouTube videos of puppies being thrown off cliffs, but no video or photographic evidence of these super-caves.

And now, because we've sealed them, we never will. But have faith in our military and intelligence community when they claim they existed; it's not like they've ever misled the public before.

Buy the book if you're that interested:

http://www.zenithpress.com/Sto...oductDetails_11447.ncm

Recent events put the names of Afghanistans Tora Bora and Zhawar Kili cave complexes into news stories around the world. This book offers a detailed analysis and visual documentation of the caves development and reinforcement between 1979 and 2001, and includes details of the Coalitions tactical approach to clearing these mountain strongholds.

 

[Fern]

BBC Documentary Reveals Al-Qaeda Is A Complete Fabrication

Well, I'm not going to watch an hour of video, or argue about big caves

But the thread title seems to overstate the case "complete fabrication"?

I can see a claim that the significance of AQ may have been substantially overstated. But there are too many reports and studies of it's origins going back to decades earlier to reasonable claim the Neocons just completely made it up in 2001.

I could also understand someone saying that the name "AQ" is being broadly applied to almost any and all Muslim/Arab fanatical criminal/terrorist groups, thus making the "real" AQ seem larger and more active than it really is.

Fern

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
How many wars did we start after the Oklahoma City bombing?

You're not that stupid. The man who did it was executed and his accomplice is in jail. It was a small and local act of violence without an international and religious banner behind it. There weren't 10,000+ terrorist attacks across the globe under that same banner in the 7 years following the bombing.

Can you tell the difference yet?