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BBC Documentary Reveals Al-Qaeda Is A Complete Fabrication

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palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: event8horizon
repost to palehorse since he missed it again-

palehorse- well state your position then in regards to Mahmoud Ahmad on this thread.

please explain why this very important person would say that AQ was a database. Robert Finlayson Cook (28 February 1946 ? 6 August 2005) was a politician in the British Labour Party. He was known as Robin Cook. He was Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs of the United Kingdom from 1997 to 2001. He resigned from his post as Leader of the House of Commons and Lord President of the Council on 17 March 2003 in protest against the 2003 invasion of Iraq. At the time of his death he was president of the Foreign Policy Centre and a vice-president of the America All Party Parliamentary Group and the Global Security and Non-Proliferation All Party Parliamentary Group. He got a standing ovation for his speech.


Cook described Al-Qaida as a product of a western miscalculation, in a 2005 newspaper column:

"Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians."[13]
I won't take the bait, and you won't take the hint... so here we are.

Stop thread-jacking.
 

event8horizon

Senior member
Nov 15, 2007
674
0
0
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: event8horizon
repost to palehorse since he missed it again-

palehorse- well state your position then in regards to Mahmoud Ahmad on this thread.

please explain why this very important person would say that AQ was a database. Robert Finlayson Cook (28 February 1946 ? 6 August 2005) was a politician in the British Labour Party. He was known as Robin Cook. He was Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs of the United Kingdom from 1997 to 2001. He resigned from his post as Leader of the House of Commons and Lord President of the Council on 17 March 2003 in protest against the 2003 invasion of Iraq. At the time of his death he was president of the Foreign Policy Centre and a vice-president of the America All Party Parliamentary Group and the Global Security and Non-Proliferation All Party Parliamentary Group. He got a standing ovation for his speech.


Cook described Al-Qaida as a product of a western miscalculation, in a 2005 newspaper column:

"Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians."[13]
I won't take the bait, and you won't take the hint... so here we are.

Stop thread-jacking.

the last thread it sounded like u wouldnt want to see him interogated. now this thread is about AQ being a fabrication. if AQ is the ISI, Mahmoud Ahmad and a british national, that sent atta 100000 bucks, dosent that sound strange. where's the boogeyman OBL in the picture???? its not bait, it a question that needs to be answered. and u portray yourself as military but do not want to answer a simple question. its not tread jacking!!! lol......your a tool....pure and simple, that cant think for himself/herself. like i said before, the nazi's in the concentration camps were just obeying orders too????
 

Socio

Golden Member
May 19, 2002
1,726
2
81
Originally posted by: theflyingpig
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: datalink7
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: datalink7
There is Al-Qaeda in Iraq. Not saying they were there at first, but they are there now and not "invented."
We know, we know...every few months we kill/capture a high-ranking member of their vast and powerful network...reminding us we're making just enough progress to stay, but never enough progress to leave.
I wouldn't know about high ranking members. I only patrol local neighborhoods. Big targets are more in the sphere of Special Forces as opposed to the normal Infantry, like me. But there is a local Al-Qaeda faction we deal with and their numbers aren't "1 or 2." They do have a widespread network though their power varies depending on the location.
Let me guess, Al Qaeda now wears "AQ" hats when attacking soldiers. It has become increasingly evident that any "rebellion" is labeled "Al Qaeda". I am not saying there is no AQ there, just the numbers are probably overblown. I would like to know how you (being a soldier from what I gather) decide who is or isn't Al Qaeda. Who actually defines them?
It's all a vast NEOCON conspiracy to make you FEAR AL QAEDA. Who defines them you ask? The NEOCON COMMANDERS who are also a part of this conspiracy of EVIL, thats who! They want you to believe that there are MILLIONS of AL QAEDA TERRORISTS in Iraq so they can justify staying there longer. Why do they want to stay longer? Because they are all PROFITING from this war! Don't you see?! The longer we stay, the more the NEOCONS profit! AL QAEDA is nothing more than a NEOCON fabrication!
Ever notice how the Left always tosses "neo-con fabrication" ?conspiracy? or "fear mongering" cards to dismiss everything they are afraid to deal with just like minorities do with their "race card"?
 

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
6,063
0
0
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: theflyingpig
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: datalink7
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: datalink7
There is Al-Qaeda in Iraq. Not saying they were there at first, but they are there now and not "invented."
We know, we know...every few months we kill/capture a high-ranking member of their vast and powerful network...reminding us we're making just enough progress to stay, but never enough progress to leave.
I wouldn't know about high ranking members. I only patrol local neighborhoods. Big targets are more in the sphere of Special Forces as opposed to the normal Infantry, like me. But there is a local Al-Qaeda faction we deal with and their numbers aren't "1 or 2." They do have a widespread network though their power varies depending on the location.
Let me guess, Al Qaeda now wears "AQ" hats when attacking soldiers. It has become increasingly evident that any "rebellion" is labeled "Al Qaeda". I am not saying there is no AQ there, just the numbers are probably overblown. I would like to know how you (being a soldier from what I gather) decide who is or isn't Al Qaeda. Who actually defines them?
It's all a vast NEOCON conspiracy to make you FEAR AL QAEDA. Who defines them you ask? The NEOCON COMMANDERS who are also a part of this conspiracy of EVIL, thats who! They want you to believe that there are MILLIONS of AL QAEDA TERRORISTS in Iraq so they can justify staying there longer. Why do they want to stay longer? Because they are all PROFITING from this war! Don't you see?! The longer we stay, the more the NEOCONS profit! AL QAEDA is nothing more than a NEOCON fabrication!
Ever notice how the Left always tosses "neo-con fabrication" ?conspiracy? or "fear mongering" cards to dismiss everything they are afraid to deal with just like minorities do with their "race card"?
You ever notice how NOTHING of value has EVER come from a neo-conservative agenda, and how their supporters just throw out useless talking points that hold no bearing on the argument at hand?

What exactly have you shown to combat the point that this war is absolutely pointless and useless?

What are these "leader's" greatest accomplishments? Please, spell them out to me and everyone else who has their head on straight, because obviously we cannot understand your slanted moon-speak point of view that these "people" in power somehow have done something substantially impressive or even mildly adequate the last 7 years.

Not that I'm arguing FOR the left or FROM the left, it's just that "you people" seem to throw me in with them, so I'll act the part and take it personally seeing as your attempting an attack on everyone who questions the "official story". What exactly do "you people" have against "lefties" for despising those who have lied to us repeatedly, forged arbitrarily asinine laws and agencies, pissed on our constitution, wasted our money, and killed our people relentlessly for the duration of their reign? God dammit, we're MONSTERS!

You do know that there are conservatives who would like to see the president and his cabinet hanged, too, right? You're a shill.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,645
1,151
126
Repost from another thread, but I think it pretty much states my thoughts on AQ and the current state of affairs.

I know that AQ exists, and is a credible and proven threat in a few hot spots. I have several friends in the military, one in intelligence, and from every honest assessment I can draw from, I have concluded that AQ is vastly overstated as a threat by certain folks, and vastly understated as a threat by others. We must ask ourselves a few questions, and then decide what is a logical and wise course of action, as nations and as men.

Q : Is AQ a threat to national security?

A : I think so, but not in a direct way, much more so in indirect threats to our economic stability. Something in the line of destroying a major oil pipeline or two could easily cause severe economic pressure due to rising energy costs. At the right time, this could tip a recession into a depression. Further, in nations with a tenuous foothold at the edge of revolution (Pakistan, for example), select assassinations and other enraging actions could descend that nation, and then the region, into chaos.

Q : Is AQ a direct threat to the general citizenry?

A : Not a chance in hell. Statistically, you're probably more likely to be killed by a random allergic reaction or falling down in your bathroom than by *any* terrorist action, AQ or not.

Q : What is the appropriate response to groups such as AQ?

A : Intelligence, intelligence, intelligence. Nothing can replace field agents. This admittedly is more difficult, due to the vast social differences between our cultures. When intelligence brings concrete or actionable info on the whereabouts and intent of quality targets, we take them out wherever they are, with PRECISE and human-led action. Blowing 100 people to bits, while targeting 5, in a town with 5,000 people just gives you 4,900 more terrorist candidates that now have a personal reason to hate your rotten guts.

Q : Can AQ and the 'War on Terror' be won?

A : No. Guerrilla warfare, and the tactics of the weak (Terrorists) against the authority (Us, in this case) will be a trait of humanity for as long as we exist as a race. As it is currently loosely defined, Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorism will probably eventually fade into even more obscurity than it currently is, most religions tend to go through 'reformation' every few hundred years.

Q : Is Islam a violent religion?

A : No more so than any other. In reality, out of ~2 billion Muslims on earth, how many could be classified as 'fundamentalist/violent' at this time, proven by action? Fifty thousand? A hundred thousand? Five hundred thousand? In any case, a truly paltry sum indeed.

Q : What drives the current strife?

A : Convenience. With the fall of the Soviet Union, industries worth trillions went loose from the reins, struggling to find direction and survival amongst this strange new world order. More importantly, a reason was needed for the continued existence of a vast and powerful power structure. As in any such hidden crisis, something scary and fearsome was needed to motivate the general population to support actions and events that would ensure that such aligned individuals/corporations would not just survive, but thrive on the tide of things to come. Terrorism, as old as humanity, was dredged up as a catalyst to unite people into giving up freedom, money, and sometimes even their lives, towards fighting a common enemy. Sadly, rash and fear-driven overreactions to such a generalized idea are counterproductive to actual progress in seriously reducing/capping growth of these kinds of groups.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
345
126
Originally posted by: Socio
Originally posted by: theflyingpig
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: datalink7
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: datalink7
There is Al-Qaeda in Iraq. Not saying they were there at first, but they are there now and not "invented."
We know, we know...every few months we kill/capture a high-ranking member of their vast and powerful network...reminding us we're making just enough progress to stay, but never enough progress to leave.
I wouldn't know about high ranking members. I only patrol local neighborhoods. Big targets are more in the sphere of Special Forces as opposed to the normal Infantry, like me. But there is a local Al-Qaeda faction we deal with and their numbers aren't "1 or 2." They do have a widespread network though their power varies depending on the location.
Let me guess, Al Qaeda now wears "AQ" hats when attacking soldiers. It has become increasingly evident that any "rebellion" is labeled "Al Qaeda". I am not saying there is no AQ there, just the numbers are probably overblown. I would like to know how you (being a soldier from what I gather) decide who is or isn't Al Qaeda. Who actually defines them?
It's all a vast NEOCON conspiracy to make you FEAR AL QAEDA. Who defines them you ask? The NEOCON COMMANDERS who are also a part of this conspiracy of EVIL, thats who! They want you to believe that there are MILLIONS of AL QAEDA TERRORISTS in Iraq so they can justify staying there longer. Why do they want to stay longer? Because they are all PROFITING from this war! Don't you see?! The longer we stay, the more the NEOCONS profit! AL QAEDA is nothing more than a NEOCON fabrication!
Ever notice how the Left always tosses "neo-con fabrication" ?conspiracy? or "fear mongering" cards to dismiss everything they are afraid to deal with just like minorities do with their "race card"?


You're right Socio, there are no Neocons, they are a fantasy of the left, and fear has never been exploited for political reasons. You caught us.

Note, I'm not endorsing the post above yours; I'm just pointing out that your rebuttal to it is very poor even if the post is wrong.

Of course, since the only race issue you appear to recognize is its exploitation for politics, not that there's any real issue there, you're probably pretty hopeless.
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
71
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: event8horizon
u referenced the journalist-

if u think he is looney then why reference him??
I didn't say that he was loony.
No, but it's implied. Are you going to address anyone posts or just with helpless little remarks?
 

Socio

Golden Member
May 19, 2002
1,726
2
81
I will clear this whole matter up for everyone go here and get this movie, buy it or pay per view it. It will spell it all out for you in living color, in fact I dare all you neo-con fabrication" ?conspiracy? or "fear mongering" claimers to watch this.


http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
345
126
Originally posted by: Socio
I will clear this whole matter up for everyone go here and get this movie, buy it or pay per view it. It will spell it all out for you in living color, in fact I dare all you neo-con fabrication" ?conspiracy? or "fear mongering" claimers to watch this.


http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/
Great, nutty right-wing propaganda - see the reviews praising it from Fox people, some military, the right-wing movie critic Michael Medved et al. You think I'll give them money?
 

Mavtek3100

Senior member
Jan 15, 2008
524
0
0
Originally posted by: Socio
I will clear this whole matter up for everyone go here and get this movie, buy it or pay per view it. It will spell it all out for you in living color, in fact I dare all you neo-con fabrication" ?conspiracy? or "fear mongering" claimers to watch this.


http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/
That might very well be some of the best propaganda since the Reichstag's newsreels......
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: Mavtek3100
Originally posted by: Socio
I will clear this whole matter up for everyone go here and get this movie, buy it or pay per view it. It will spell it all out for you in living color, in fact I dare all you neo-con fabrication" ?conspiracy? or "fear mongering" claimers to watch this.


http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/
That might very well be some of the best propaganda since the Reichstag's newsreels......
LOL

After watching the trailer I have to agree.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Socio
I will clear this whole matter up for everyone go here and get this movie, buy it or pay per view it. It will spell it all out for you in living color, in fact I dare all you neo-con fabrication" ?conspiracy? or "fear mongering" claimers to watch this.


http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/
Great, nutty right-wing propaganda - see the reviews praising it from Fox people, some military, the right-wing movie critic Michael Medved et al. You think I'll give them money?
vs. nutty left-wing propganda?

I don't see as either one of these being more credible than the other. Both have their wacky slants.

What's telling though is who sees a slant in one and not in the other.
 

Mavtek3100

Senior member
Jan 15, 2008
524
0
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Socio
I will clear this whole matter up for everyone go here and get this movie, buy it or pay per view it. It will spell it all out for you in living color, in fact I dare all you neo-con fabrication" ?conspiracy? or "fear mongering" claimers to watch this.


http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/
Great, nutty right-wing propaganda - see the reviews praising it from Fox people, some military, the right-wing movie critic Michael Medved et al. You think I'll give them money?
vs. nutty left-wing propganda?

I don't see as either one of these being more credible than the other. Both have their wacky slants.

What's telling though is who sees a slant in one and not in the other.
No doubt there is slant in just about any documentary, I'd say few if any don't have a slant as most everyone goes into anything with a view on the topic. I'll give the people that offer their media for free versus those that charge me the benefit of doubt anytime. The best documentaries are the ones where the makers go into the making of the film with one view and come out thinking otherwise. One movie like that is "No end in Sight". Which can be found here.

http://www.noendinsightmovie.com/
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: Mavtek3100
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Socio
I will clear this whole matter up for everyone go here and get this movie, buy it or pay per view it. It will spell it all out for you in living color, in fact I dare all you neo-con fabrication" ?conspiracy? or "fear mongering" claimers to watch this.


http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/
Great, nutty right-wing propaganda - see the reviews praising it from Fox people, some military, the right-wing movie critic Michael Medved et al. You think I'll give them money?
vs. nutty left-wing propganda?

I don't see as either one of these being more credible than the other. Both have their wacky slants.

What's telling though is who sees a slant in one and not in the other.
No doubt there is slant in just about any documentary, I'd say few if any don't have a slant as most everyone goes into anything with a view on the topic. I'll give the people that offer their media for free versus those that charge me the benefit of doubt anytime. The best documentaries are the ones where the makers go into the making of the film with one view and come out thinking otherwise. One movie like that is "No end in Sight". Which can be found here.

http://www.noendinsightmovie.com/
Did Curtis make his films for free?

I look at Planet Earth as a documentary. Where politics is concerned I'm not sure there is such a thing as a documentary though, free or not.
 

superstition

Platinum Member
Feb 2, 2008
2,219
217
101
Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat
The whole "Al-qaeda" bogeyman kind of reminds me of the good old days in the 70's and 80's, when the USSR was hyped as this military juggernaut. Remember all the stories about how great the Red Army was? How they had tens of thousands of tanks and arty just ready to roll into Europe? Back then, we just HAD to spends billions to match them, so we wouldn't be destroyed.

Then the Berlin wall came down, the USSR collapsed, and we got to see what the Red Army really was capable of. Lots of obsolete tanks, subs, and planes. Much equipment wasn't even usable. I remember thinking what a huge difference it was between what they were hyped to be, and what they really were (intel failure? Maybe overhyped for a reason, just like Iraq today?)

Does this sound familiar to anyone with today's huge AQ bogeyman? The Military industrial complex likes these situations, it lets them make tons of money off of fear.
And yet it continues. Hillary's 3am ad helped her to win Ohio and Texas. As soon as the Cold War was over, something had to take its place.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,862
83
91
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
its a documentary by richard curtis.
its only aired by bbc, bbc funds a wide range of programs from strange sex documentaries to conspiracy nonsense like this.

its an old video by now actually...
the power of nightmares is about the power of propaganda. but oddly enough it resorts to the same tactics it so derides really. and of course it is basically a long conspiracy theory, taking separate independent events around the world and trying to desperately to link them in a simplistic grand narrative. spewing out frankly known facts with a bit of distortion to wow the ignorant.

i give curtis this, he makes a polished product.
but he merely encourages another type of irrational thinking to replace the irrational thinking he despises.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory is his playbook.
You fail to back up your broad attacks on the film. If it's so thoroughly flawed as you say, you should be able to provide a number of specific examples.

its simply distorting reality. it makes links that don't really exist. if you pick and choose select events here and there around the world through history and try to force them into a story, its really nothing more than a conspiracy theory. its not much more than a rehash of old chomsky nonsense but gussied up. he doesn't even portray leo strauss in an accurate manner, but how would most people know that. its a disingenuous film that is meant to exploit the ignorance of most of its viewers. thats how propaganda works.

you can see how far he goes to distort things to fit his narrative when he tries to say dirty bombs are nothing to be afraid of. as if having to either evacuative for decades or remove a decent chunk of a city and cart it off to get rid of radioactive contamination is insignificant:p the fact is that compared to any conventional explosive a dirty bomb is definitely a weapon of mass destruction. yes, its not going to kill millions, or perhaps many at all, but its going to cause some massive trouble. and this is how curtis operates. he works through careful omission.
go listen to david icke sometime, you'll see a similar narrative.

you want specifics?
The power of bad television
http://www.nationalreview.com/.../davis200410211043.asp
beware of the holy war
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050620/bergen

as richard curtis knows, with clever cutting, one can do incredible things
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVjl7gK4HGU
curtis creates a cartoon of history using this technique.

Originally posted by: superstition
Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat
The whole "Al-qaeda" bogeyman kind of reminds me of the good old days in the 70's and 80's, when the USSR was hyped as this military juggernaut. Remember all the stories about how great the Red Army was? How they had tens of thousands of tanks and arty just ready to roll into Europe? Back then, we just HAD to spends billions to match them, so we wouldn't be destroyed.

Then the Berlin wall came down, the USSR collapsed, and we got to see what the Red Army really was capable of. Lots of obsolete tanks, subs, and planes. Much equipment wasn't even usable. I remember thinking what a huge difference it was between what they were hyped to be, and what they really were (intel failure? Maybe overhyped for a reason, just like Iraq today?)

Does this sound familiar to anyone with today's huge AQ bogeyman? The Military industrial complex likes these situations, it lets them make tons of money off of fear.
And yet it continues. Hillary's 3am ad helped her to win Ohio and Texas. As soon as the Cold War was over, something had to take its place.
right, one ad makes a win:p of course thats how it works, when you don't win, suddenly its just a dirty trick:p obama spent tons of money and couldn't pull it off, why? his support isn't as deep as you'd think.
 

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