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BBB - nowhere close

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fskimospy said:
I think there’s a perfectly rational explanation - Manchin is considerably more conservative than the average Democrat and he has a need to signal this to his constituents. This is similar to how you were unable to understand the fact that some people genuinely prefer to live in cities - people often have different preferences than you for reasons other than yearning for the sweet release of death. It’s something you’re going to have to come to grips with if you ever really want to understand people.

Also, I still bet either all of BBB or significant parts of it are passed in the next year or so.
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We've been had. You've been had.
You can't deal with conservaterrorists.
You have to start over.
 
DEMOCRATS ACROSS AMERICA.... CLEAN YOUR HOUSE.

Manchin should simply be asked... do you prefer democrats control the house and senate, or republicans?
And manchin would most definitely reply REPUBLICANS by claiming that REPUBLICANS ARE THE MORE FISCAL CONSERVATIVE.
So there you have it.
Democrats like to "do things" for the middle class and that means spending resources and investing in the middle class. Manchin is a full blown republican when it comes to the middle class. Manchin, and republicans, believe giving corporations more tax breaks will result in a better middle class. It's called trickle down.

Manchin does not believe that investing in people will make a better society or a stronger middle class. This guy lives on a boat if I'm not mistaken, and runs campaign ads showing off his gun(s), and this guy in no way should be allowed into a political party that believes in investing in people and empowering the worker i.e. the middle class. Manchin does not belong.

But I have this gut feeling that Joe Manchin will face his day of reckoning, and the same goes for that weird-do female senator that I can't even remember her name nor do I care to try.

I KNEW that Manchin would pull this crap from the very beginning, that all of his talk and delaying would end up as a solid no to the Biden agenda. I don't want to say I told you so but... AOC WAS RIGHT!!!!!!

And again, DEMOCRATS ACROSS AMERICA.... CLEAN YOUR HOUSE.
 
fskimospy said:
I think there’s a perfectly rational explanation - Manchin is considerably more conservative than the average Democrat and he has a need to signal this to his constituents. This is similar to how you were unable to understand the fact that some people genuinely prefer to live in cities - people often have different preferences than you for reasons other than yearning for the sweet release of death. It’s something you’re going to have to come to grips with if you ever really want to understand people.

Also, I still bet either all of BBB or significant parts of it are passed in the next year or so.
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Let me see if I have this straight. You are saying that the rational explanation for Manchin's behavior is his desire to signal his constituents his conservative nature, presumably so he can get re-elected? So it's rational to put your own interests above the will of one's party, the will of the American people and human decency? And then on top of that I am the one who looks at people in a negative light, that I am the one who doesn't understand people. Seems to me you are the one who has a negative view of human nature and you don't even know why or how to explain it.

I find it far more plausible to believe that Manchin thinks he is doing the right thing and has no idea why what is completely wrong looks right to him and it isn't about getting re-elected. I think his problem is that he believes he is right and that standing up for what you believe is the right thing to do.

Furthermore, I see incomprehension of what I have been saying in the why you characterize what I have said, 'Yearning for the sweet release of death'. That does not capture it at all. I said we have a death wish because we died psychically as children and are driven to re-experience those feelings but without remembering the actual death. Our death wish is driven by an unconscious wish to come alive again, but in a manner that is self destructive and will never work. You can't really have any personal awareness of these forces because you are unaware of what you feel. I just claim I know you better than you know you because I know me and we are all the same. People have different preferences that are of small consequence. The ways we manifest our inner fracture, the adoption of the false and the repression of the real, may differ but in wholeness we are all the same. I am not here to really argue or to prove, I simply want to pass on information I believe I have that you do not. There is no logical proof of what I am saying. I only know it is possible to take a trip within, to open a door deeply hidden into a world where you feel and remember when you experienced is something you had no idea you have felt onward from that day and that to awaken that way changes everything. A person of your intellectual capacity could do so much with that, in my opinion.
 
Now you guys know how it feels when RINOs were out there torpedoeing things for Republicans back in the day.

Anyway, Manchin voted his conscience. In the end he is American first and democrat second.
 
When Senators start actually telling you what they think it often turns out to be pretty kooky. Congress has a rep for being disconnected from the nation's reality and the Senate is basically its own dimension where a bunch of old people believe all kinds of outdated/nutty/wrong things and nobody exists to tell them otherwise that could penetrate its barriers. SCOTUS is pretty much in the same spot culturally.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1472907682105499651
 
K1052 said:
When Senators start actually telling you what they think it often turns out to be pretty kooky. Congress has a rep for being disconnected from the nation's reality and the Senate is basically its own dimension where a bunch of old people believe all kinds of outdated/nutty/wrong things and nobody exists to tell them otherwise that could penetrate its barriers. SCOTUS is pretty much in the same spot culturally.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1472907682105499651
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You’d think that they’d have enough resources available to them that they could fact check their beliefs.
 
[DHT]Osiris said:
That's what makes him a conservative.
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To state that a person is a conservative who is a conservative for irrational reasons can be said to be a rational description of symptoms, but it does not touch on why the person may be irrational. I gave a general description of what I believe is going on at a deeper level. I offered a suggestion I think may offer a more rational description fothe symptoms. If I see in people things about their behavior that are fundamentally more damming of human nature than someone else, that fact has no bearing on the truth. It may only mean that I am more willing to admit to a deeper insight into what makes me like other people than someone else.

The first thing that happens to people who open cans of worms others avoid is to be called a shit disturber followed up by the desire to shoot the messenger.

But of course it is only others that are like that, right, never ourselves. I am only asking you how it is that we come up with such expressions as cans of worms or shoot the messenger if the negativity expressed therein is totally foreign to an inward self recognition.

Sonething else to consider: Perhaps people who say someone is shoveling shit against the tide just hasn’t shoveled enough shit.
 
Moonbeam said:
Let me see if I have this straight. You are saying that the rational explanation for Manchin's behavior is his desire to signal his constituents his conservative nature, presumably so he can get re-elected? So it's rational to put your own interests above the will of one's party, the will of the American people and human decency? And then on top of that I am the one who looks at people in a negative light, that I am the one who doesn't understand people. Seems to me you are the one who has a negative view of human nature and you don't even know why or how to explain it.
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I know exactly how to explain it - people are self interested.

I find it far more plausible to believe that Manchin thinks he is doing the right thing and has no idea why what is completely wrong looks right to him and it isn't about getting re-elected. I think his problem is that he believes he is right and that standing up for what you believe is the right thing to do.
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You’re just repeating half of my own argument back at me. He is more conservative than almost all other democrats so his idea of what is right is different than yours.

As far as him doing this purely out of what he thinks is right with no electoral or political considerations, that’s terribly naive.

Furthermore, I see incomprehension of what I have been saying in the why you characterize what I have said, 'Yearning for the sweet release of death'. That does not capture it at all. I said we have a death wish because we died psychically as children and are driven to re-experience those feelings but without remembering the actual death. Our death wish is driven by an unconscious wish to come alive again, but in a manner that is self destructive and will never work. You can't really have any personal awareness of these forces because you are unaware of what you feel. I just claim I know you better than you know you because I know me and we are all the same. People have different preferences that are of small consequence. The ways we manifest our inner fracture, the adoption of the false and the repression of the real, may differ but in wholeness we are all the same. I am not here to really argue or to prove, I simply want to pass on information I believe I have that you do not. There is no logical proof of what I am saying. I only know it is possible to take a trip within, to open a door deeply hidden into a world where you feel and remember when you experienced is something you had no idea you have felt onward from that day and that to awaken that way changes everything. A person of your intellectual capacity could do so much with that, in my opinion.
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This is hand waving.
 
K1052 said:
When Senators start actually telling you what they think it often turns out to be pretty kooky. Congress has a rep for being disconnected from the nation's reality and the Senate is basically its own dimension where a bunch of old people believe all kinds of outdated/nutty/wrong things and nobody exists to tell them otherwise that could penetrate its barriers. SCOTUS is pretty much in the same spot culturally.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1472907682105499651
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I mean, in West VA, probably not far off. Opiate capital of the country
 
fskimospy said:
I know exactly how to explain it - people are self interested.
Click to expand...

Why?

You’re just repeating half of my own argument back at me. He is more conservative than almost all other democrats so his idea of what is right is different than yours.
Click to expand...

Any difference of opinion I have with Manchin has nothing to do with this. The point is not what he believes but that he believes right.

As far as him doing this purely out of what he thinks is right with no electoral or political considerations, that’s terribly naive.
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I see two examples of naïveté, his for not seeing his real self interest and yours for believing he does.

This is hand waving.
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Poof, you are a rabbit.
 
Moonbeam said:
Why?
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Evolution.

Any difference of opinion I have with Manchin has nothing to do with this. The point is not what he believes but that he believes right.

I see two examples of naïveté, his for not seeing his real self interest and yours for believing he does.

Poof, you are a rabbit.
Click to expand...
This comes back to your fundamental lack of understanding of how humans think. He values different things than you, therefore you conclude that he must be deluded or crazy or whatever.

I don't know what to tell you because this sort of understanding is almost certainly not something I can teach you and I don't get the sense that you want to learn.
 
gothuevos said:
Doesn't matter... haven't we learned by now that the GOP never suffers from bad publicity? They will just spin it as "saving America from this socialist bill." No hearts or minds are changed, either way.
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You do realize that the GOP lost control of the entire federal government over the last four or so years primarily because the public didn't like what they were doing, right?
 
Still waiting for Felex to report back to us that he is in Afghanistan fighting the Taliban since he was so outraged over Biden's decision.


Fucking warmongers never want to put their own precious ass on the line.
 
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