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BBB - nowhere close

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[DHT]Osiris said:
So don't mobilize against your opponent, mobilize against a greater threat (pick one, we have a few to choose from). If necessary, take jabs at your opponent for their lack of concern, but make the focus a bigger fight than red vs blue.
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How does ostracizing Manchin accomplish this objective?
 
fskimospy said:
How does ostracizing Manchin accomplish this objective?
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Point out that he, like Republicans, are getting in the way of doing what needs to be done wrt public service, fighting climate change, fighting a global pandemic, and whatever other things they could choose to point out. Let the voters know who (actual names, not amorphous 'far right' or 'DINO' or whatever else) is actually getting in the way of progress. Then find someone who actually wants to play ball in that state that isn't a festering piece of shit otherwise, and get their ass in front of eyeballs ahead of 2022.

EDIT: Hell, leverage it for future/other elections. 'See, we, unlike some others, actually care about our constituents, and care about what happens to America, so we get rid of those who hold back progress'.
 
[DHT]Osiris said:
Point out that he, like Republicans, are getting in the way of doing what needs to be done wrt public service, fighting climate change, fighting a global pandemic, and whatever other things they could choose to point out. Let the voters know who (actual names, not amorphous 'far right' or 'DINO' or whatever else) is actually getting in the way of progress.
Click to expand...

You are a progressive like me. The sad news for us though is that the median voter doesn't share our preferences, or at least doesn't vote like they do. Letting the voters know that Manchin isn't a 'real liberal' or whatever probably helps his vote margin, it doesn't hurt him.

Then find someone who actually wants to play ball in that state that isn't a festering piece of shit otherwise, and get their ass in front of eyeballs ahead of 2022.
Click to expand...

So in other words elect a Republican senator from West Virginia. How is this helping Democrats again?

EDIT: Hell, leverage it for future/other elections. 'See, we, unlike some others, actually care about our constituents, and care about what happens to America, so we get rid of those who hold back progress'.
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It would just make us lose elections.
 
If people want to shit on Sinema I'm 100% on board as Arizona could definitely elect a superior democratic senator to her. Manchin on the other hand is the single most valuable senator in the entire country for either party. He's a triumph for Democrats and should be treated as such.
 
fskimospy said:
If people want to shit on Sinema I'm 100% on board as Arizona could definitely elect a superior democratic senator to her. Manchin on the other hand is the single most valuable senator in the entire country for either party. He's a triumph for Democrats and should be treated as such.
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In some ways I can bring myself to agree, but there's a specter looming over this whole affair in the form of an ineffectual government (or at least the perception of ineffectual). That'll be the pain point that Republicans leverage to win 5-10 seats in 2022, and put some R in the hot seat in 2024.
 
Brainonska511 said:
Want to shake it up: elect more democrats. Throwing out what little advantage Democrats have is stupid, because so much can still be done with the slim majority, including ever important judicial confirmations.
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Yeah, just look at all their accomplishments when they controlled the Whits House and both houses of congress with a super majority in the senate. All they managed to do was pass a republican health plan.

They can't find enough money for programs that benefit working americans , but they have no problem not only spending over 700 billion on the military, but they find an extra 20-30 billion to give them.
 
dlerious said:
Yeah, just look at all their accomplishments when they controlled the Whits House and both houses of congress with a super majority in the senate. All they managed to do was pass a republican health plan.

They can't find enough money for programs that benefit working americans , but they have no problem not only spending over 700 billion on the military, but they find an extra 20-30 billion to give them.
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I see you're delusional. That senate supermajority lasted a whopping ~80 days, and had a number of conservative Democrats in the Senate. However, the House under Pelosi's leadership did pass a bill with a public option (it was unfortunately stymied in the Senate by a death and some conservative Democrats opposing it); regardless, many pieces of legislation were signed into law including some banking reforms and the greatest expansion of the social safety net in my lifetime. If you don't think giving millions of people access to health insurance via Medicaid expansion and millions more subsidized private coverage (while also bolstering what that private coverage is required to provide - no lifetime caps, preventative care coverage, etc), then I have some beach front property in Wyoming that you just might be interested in.

To call the ACA a republican healthcare plan is pretty dishonest. Maybe it was roughly aligned with something Heritage came up with in the 90s to make it look like they were Serious People when opposing HillaryCare, and something the conservative state of Massachusetts enacted, but in the late 2000s, the Republican healthcare plan was, as Alan Grayson so elegantly out: Don't get sick, but if you get sick, die quickly.

Edit:
Everyone loves to cry about military spending, but just try cutting it: it's a giant jobs program. Can't kill outdated and not needed aircraft from the Cold War; we need two armies for some reason (looking at you Marine Corp), each with their own toys; we can't decide on what we want our military to do, so they need to do everything ($$$$)...
 
Roger Wilco said:
Edit: Mixed signals, misdirection, and confusion, per the usual.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1471178797269536784

Manchin is saying he wants to cut the child tax credit completely, meanwhile student loan forbearance (corrected from forgiveness) is about to expire.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1471160845065465857
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That tax credit is a game-changer for his constituents. Massive reduction in childhood poverty, and this clown is suddenly "concerned" about spending.

Was he as concerned about spending when he voted for the massive increase in defense spending, despite there being a grand total of zero wars currently going on?
 
fskimospy said:
How do you both mobilize the base and not be extreme, as the base is by definition extreme compared to moderates?

Base. Mobilization. Does. Not. Work. The things you do to mobilize your base also mobilize your opponent’s, as Trump learned. It’s running in quicksand.
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Obama mobilized the base and he crushed it.
 
dlerious said:
Yeah, just look at all their accomplishments when they controlled the Whits House and both houses of congress with a super majority in the senate. All they managed to do was pass a republican health plan.

They can't find enough money for programs that benefit working americans , but they have no problem not only spending over 700 billion on the military, but they find an extra 20-30 billion to give them.
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For a few months. This story is so old.
 
compuwiz1 said:
Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of him. He's got his BA, but hates capitalism and has worked for the last two years driving uber eats and door dash. Will be turning 26 and still has no real jobs on his resume. Still lives with mommy, plays video games most days, only working when he needs money to pay his credit cards. Total failure to launch.
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Look at the parents for this. It is all on them. They allowed this.
 
compuwiz1 said:
Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of him. He's got his BA, but hates capitalism and has worked for the last two years driving uber eats and door dash. Will be turning 26 and still has no real jobs on his resume. Still lives with mommy, plays video games most days, only working when he needs money to pay his credit cards. Total failure to launch.
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Time for mama to kick baby birdie out of the nest. Doing no favors not sending him off to the real world.
 
pcgeek11 said:
Look at the parents for this. It is all on them. They allowed this.
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Maybe, but some kids are just lazy and turn into lazy, good for nothing adults despite what the parents do. I have cousins who turned out this way when the rest of their bros/sis' turned out successful.

Parents are not helping by enabling him tho.
26, jobless and living at home is an embarrassment, esp when there are help wanted signs everywhere. Treat them like a child, expect child like behavior.
 
nakedfrog said:
It's rather a bit more complicated than that. You have no idea what it's like out there for young people. The US isn't what it was when you were young, decades ago, largely due to GOP economic policy and corporate ransacking.
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I disagree. There are tons of jobs available and at 26 he should be on his own. His parents coddled and spoiled him that is why he is still at home.
 
Bitek said:
Parents are not helping by enabling him tho.
26, jobless and living at home is an embarrassment, esp when there are help wanted signs everywhere. Treat them like a child, expect child like behavior.
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That says exactly what I was talking about.
 
Roger Wilco said:
"Why Manchin has concerns with including child tax credit in BBB, per source familiar - It has to do with how it impacts cost of bill, which he wants to keep at $1.75T - Manchin’s belief is that if the CTC is expanded over 10 years it would blow up the cost of the bill."

"- He isn't telling Biden to remove any specific policy, according to the source, but he has made clear that these expensive provisions are not going to fit to keep the bill at $1.75T -- Biden's framework would extend CTC for ONE year."

"- But Manchin has said that temporary programs do not reflect the true cost to taxpayers. And has repeatedly made clear that the cost of the bill should reflect how much the bill's programs cost over 10 years"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1471196703051165701
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If he wants to talk about true costs to tax payers, how about talking about the true cost of corporate handouts to big corporations and the rich. The BBB would be cushion change in comparison.
 
NWRMidnight said:
If he wants to talk about true costs to tax payers, how about talking about the true cost of corporate handouts to big corporations and the rich. The BBB would be cushion change in comparison.
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Exactly! And every news network should be inviting and calling him out on this and especially on the defense spending. Hypocritical, pos.
 
pcgeek11 said:
I disagree. There are tons of jobs available and at 26 he should be on his own. His parents coddled and spoiled him that is why he is still at home.
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Depending on where he lives, he may need to work tons of jobs to be able to afford to live on his own.

I don't know the details, just saying, no sense casting judgement without knowing any details.
 
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