Bay Trail Desktop smaller than a NUC

[cbn]

Looking forward to learning more about this one:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ecs-v20-mini-lake-bat-i-v20,25679.html

Specs:

N2805 Bay Trail
2 GB DDR3L
eMMC 32GB or 64GB
Realtek ALC282 (2CH) combo jack
Realtek 8111G Gigabit Ethernet Controller
usb 3.0 x1, usb 2.0 x1
GPIO header
HDMI
VGA
Power Connector (Micro USB)
Fanless heatsink
118m x 70mm x 45mm dimensions? (image from Tom's is somewhat hard to read)

I really like the idea of the eMMC assuming the total package price is inexpensive enough. With the fanless cpu heatsink, I'm hoping a fairly powerful fully solid state PC finally becomes affordable.

The I/O in general looks good, but I only wish there was another usb 2.0 port since it doesn't have Wifi.

 

[Blur]

Ditto.

 

[ggadrian]

Actually with at least 4GB of RAM given that it provably won't be upgradeable (come on, 2GB in 2014?) and a built-in wireless adapter or space to fit one one it would be a really nice little computer.

Without wifi and with that little RAM I don't see the point in that thing.

 

[cbn]

The 2GB Ram doesn't really bother me personally (particularly if I use Ubuntu or some other Linux distro)

http://www.zdnet.com/how-much-ram-do-i-need-early-2013-edition-7000011139/

With 2GB you should be able to do pretty much everything with your computer that a computer is capable of doing—gaming, image and video editing, running suites like Microsoft Office, and having a dozen or so browser tabs open all become possible. Sure, RAM is going to be a bottleneck, but 2GB is enough to get some real work done.

2GB is also enough to run a hardcore suite of apps like the Adobe Master Collection CS6 (or so says Adobe, but if you've got $2,500 to put down for the software, you should be able to afford more RAM!).

.....but I think the lack of a third usb 2.0 is kinda painful for those of us planning on not running this computer purely on a wired network. (I'd would just love a third usb 2.0 for a Wireless usb adapter and occasional optical drive or usb flash drive usage)

However, It really depends on how much ECS prices this Mini Lake Desktop. If it ends up being cheap enough I will probably not care about the lack of third usb 2.0 port and be content to use a usb hub.

As a comparison the Intel Forest Canyon NUC (DN2810FYK) is reported to be $139 for the barebones. For that money we get a much faster N2810 dual core processor, SATA port (but no eMMC or mSATA), SODIMM slot (allowing a good amount of RAM), usb 3.0 x1, usb 2.0 x2, intel Wireless N card (pre-installed in half length Mini PCI-E slot). It also has a IR receiver sensor

Some possible downwsides to the Forest Canyon NUC:

1.Adding in the RAM and Storage will drive up the cost a good deal.
2. It uses active cooling.
3. I see only one HDMI port listed in the link and image below.

http://hexus.net/tech/news/systems/60085-exclusive-intel-launch-139-bay-trail-nucs-q1-2014/

 

[ggadrian]

The 2GB Ram doesn't really bother me personally (particularly if I use Ubuntu or some other Linux distro)

http://www.zdnet.com/how-much-ram-do-i-need-early-2013-edition-7000011139/



.....but I think the lack of a third usb 2.0 is kinda painful for those of us planning on not running this computer purely on a wired network. (I'd would just love a third usb 2.0 for a Wireless usb adapter and occasional optical drive or usb flash drive usage)

However, It really depends on how much ECS prices this Mini Lake Desktop. If it ends up being cheap enough I will probably not care about the lack of third usb 2.0 port and be content to use a usb hub.

As a comparison the Intel Forest Canyon NUC (DN2810FYK) is reported to be $139 for the barebones. For that money we get a much faster N2810 dual core processor, SATA port (but no eMMC or mSATA), SODIMM slot (allowing a good amount of RAM), usb 3.0 x1, usb 2.0 x2, intel Wireless N card (pre-installed in half length Mini PCI-E slot). It also has a IR receiver sensor

Some possible downwsides to the Forest Canyon NUC:

1.Adding in the RAM and Storage will drive up the cost a good deal.
2. It uses active cooling.
3. I see only one HDMI port listed in the link and image below.

http://hexus.net/tech/news/systems/60085-exclusive-intel-launch-139-bay-trail-nucs-q1-2014/

Well, you can do pretty much everything you want, but it's gonna be slow in 2GB of RAM, and with RAM being as cheap as it is 4GB should be the bare minimum for every computer this days, even my phone has 2GB!

If it had 4GB of RAM and were cheap enough (lets say around 200€) I'd get one and I'd put it in the living room TV just to use it as a plex client and for some web surfing and (really light) gaming from de coach. With 2GB I'm not going to touch it, I've been done with memory swapping for to long to come back now.

 

[crashtestdummy]

Well, you can do pretty much everything you want, but it's gonna be slow in 2GB of RAM, and with RAM being as cheap as it is 4GB should be the bare minimum for every computer this days, even my phone has 2GB!

If it had 4GB of RAM and were cheap enough (lets say around 200€) I'd get one and I'd put it in the living room TV just to use it as a plex client and for some web surfing and (really light) gaming from de coach. With 2GB I'm not going to touch it, I've been done with memory swapping for to long to come back now.

It really depends on what you're using it for. As a full-featured, multitasking computer, sure it's a bit low. If your intended use is as a streaming/playback-oriented HTPC with occasional web browsing, though, it's not bad.

 

[ggadrian]

It really depends on what you're using it for. As a full-featured, multitasking computer, sure it's a bit low. If your intended use is as a streaming/playback-oriented HTPC with occasional web browsing, though, it's not bad.

Yes, but my raspberry running rasplex is also pretty good at doing playback and costs 1/4th of what this thing is going to cost.

This is much more powerful, and yes, in some cases 2GB is going to be enough, but I think that they're crippling an otherwise very interesting computer.

 

[you2]

Seems too slow to me; slower than the current mk3188. Zotac is going to release a snapdragon 800 mini pc for less than $150 in Q2 2014. The snapdragon 800 should be 2x the speed of the n2805; not sure how gpu compare also not sure how much ram the zotac model wil include. It isn't window friendly but there will be a linux option.

 

[cbn]

Seems too slow to me; slower than the current mk3188.

Not sure what benchmark you are referring to, but the single thread performance of N2805 (1.46 Ghz dual core) should be a good deal higher than the RK 3188 SOC (quad core cortex A9 @ 1.6 Ghz).

Zotac is going to release a snapdragon 800 mini pc for less than $150 in Q2 2014. The snapdragon 800 should be 2x the speed of the n2805; not sure how gpu compare also not sure how much ram the zotac model wil include. It isn't window friendly but there will be a linux option.

I couldn't find Snapdragon for Zotac, but I did find these FreeScale ARM powered ones being shown at CES this year. (The Lilputing reporter in the video below said they would be out in 2Q 2014 and be priced somewhere between $100 and $150.)

http://liliputing.com/2014/01/zotac-launch-mini-pcs-arm-chips-android-ubuntu-150.html

Video here---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iPYws2PW78

Glad to see Ubuntu 12.04 LTS included as an option. (It will be interesting to find out how well the 1.0 Ghz Cortex A9 cores run the Linux desktop apps)

I also really like the idea of the 3 Gbps SATA port on the Zotac being combined with the small amount of eMMC (Although I would probably want at least 16 GB). This way a person can run the OS and maybe some applications on the eMMC without absolutely needing to buy a relatively expensive 2.5" HDD or SSD (helping to keep cost down in some usage scenarios).

P.S. The Intel N2805 Bay Trail SOC on the ECS Mini Lake computer is also capable of having a SATA port but I don't think ECS included it at this time. The ECS case/motherboard is 70mm wide (the same width as a 2.5" HDD/SSD) so they could potentially add room for a drive in the future simply increasing the height of case sufficiently.

 

[you2]

For my comment on speed; passmark rated the n2805 @ 400 and change; the snapdraogn 800 is around 850; the mobile i3 is around 2700 and the g3220 i used for my recent $300 build is rated at 3300 (these are cpu speeds; the numbers i used are from memory and not precise). None of this is gpu speed which is different.

 

[monstercameron]

http://tangopc.com/
cool concept.

 

[you2]

I think I was mistaken on the zotac using snapdragon 800; but in the process of double checking I did find this little gem (rk3288):

http://www.cnx-software.com/2014/01/10/rockchip-rk3288-vs-rk3188-performance-comparison/
-
I don't think it has the raw processing power of the snapdragon 800 but it has better gpu (and support for H.265)

 

[bgt]

http://tangopc.com/
cool concept.

This 1 should have much nicer possibilities concerning separate parts.

 

[you2]

but it is 2 to 3 times more expensive then the other options being discussed. The price point puts it in league with mini (thin) itx g3220 or i3.

This 1 should have much nicer possibilities concerning separate parts.

 

[bgt]

but it is 2 to 3 times more expensive then the other options being discussed. The price point puts it in league with mini (thin) itx g3220 or i3.

Where did you read about the price?

 

[you2]

There is a link to there indiegogo campaign; you can see some prices there. Basically it is $300 for system + 1 docking station and $70 per additional docking station. It reminds of a assu pad-phone but they are using a6-5200 which is 2,400 on pasmark (pretty decent about the same as a mobile i3 (haswel) but 1.5x the power consumption @ 18 watt. The hd4400 and hd8400 (from a6-5200) are within 20% of each other (hd4400 slightly faster). So basically the g3220 is a better processor (but uses 2.5x more power) but this system is a little smaller (but both system are approx the same price). i presume the retail price will be on par as the indie price (perhaps more perhaps less depedent on market and time of purchase).
-
This is really in a different league than the other mobile processors being discussed. Also historically the amd chips tend to run a bit warm so I'm wonder how they solve the thermal issue.
-
Btw I couldnt' find a good price for the a6-5200 chip; newegg only offering includes an ecs motherboard for $150. This is more than I paid for the mini-itx h81+3220 a few days ago (though is suspect the lot price for the a6 is cheaper). The g3220 is 20 to 25% fasster than the a6-5200 (both graphics and cpu).
-
You might want to double check some of my numbers as I only spent a few minutes digging up the above info.

Where did you read about the price?

 

[piasabird]

I like to use USB for Headphones, microphones, Skype webcam, usb stick, etc. Technically I guess you could just plug everything into a USB Hub or use more wireless for keyboard, Mouse or maybe a Mini Wireless Keyboard/remote depending on what you are using it for.

Intel announced some kind of a small form factor the size of a phone but then never explained what it was and who was interested in it. I think they were just teasing to see if any developers was interested.

One of the problems with most form factors is that you need a power supply. For a small form factor you need about a 200 watt power supply and it needs to be smaller or external. The other problem is CPU and cooling. I like how INTEL used multiple layer PCB on the NUC Platform. If this design technique were applied to the Mini-ITX form factor you could put the Processor on one side and then put SSD, Wireless and SODIMM ram on the back and make it accessible through a back panel on the case like a laptop. The MINI-ITX form factor does not need much support since it so small and stiff and only needs mounting points on 4 corners.

Show me the Benchmarks.

 

[you2]

Has anyone heard release dates for any of these new devices ?