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Bathroom repair advice needed
- Thread starter SAWYER
- Start date
bruceb
Diamond Member
You need to use what is called Blue Board or concrete backer board in a shower. You will need to remove all the old tiles and board, fix whatever you damaged inside the wall, then put the new board up, use the proper thinset and notch size as suggested by the tile supply store. You may want to call in a pro as this can be a bit complex if you have not done it before. The last thing you need is for shower water to get into the wall.
Dr. Detroit
Diamond Member
Duct tape and Saran Wrap?
He's not asking for dating advice.
bruceb
Diamond Member
Let's have a look at what Hometime says about it:
http://www.hometime.com/Howto/projects/ctile/tile_7.htm
Wall Underlayment
Drywall is a standard wall covering in most residential construction. It is considered a good underlayment for wall tile as long it won't be exposed to moisture.
Moisture-resistant drywall, or "greenboard" as it's often called, is made out of the same gypsum core as drywall but with a moisture-resistant facing.
The same types of backerboard used for floors (concrete and fiber cement) can be used as underlayment for wall tiles. Concrete backerboard cannot be painted, so make sure it is completely hidden by the tile. Some of the other backerboard products can be finished like drywall if they aren’t completely covered with tile.
(See the floor underlayment section for tips on cutting these products.)
In a bath or shower the flange at the top edge of the tub or shower base might push the bottom of the backerboard out from the studs. Use strips of builders’ felt as furring to bring the entire surface of the stud even with the surface of the flange.
Start installing backerboard at the furthest back wall and work your way from the bottom up.
Cut holes in the backerboard for around shower and bath controls. Score the mesh on both sides of the board and hammer on it until it breaks out.
You want to mud and tape the joints of the backerboard. First use a self-adhering fiberglass tape, then fill the joints with thinset mortar using a taping knife.
http://www.hometime.com/Howto/projects/ctile/tile_7.htm
Wall Underlayment
Although a tile wall doesn't need to support the weight that a tile floor does, the underlayment still must be flat, solid and secured well to the framing.
If your existing walls are flat and in good condition you can usually tile over them.
If plaster walls have holes and cracks they can be patched with spackling or joint compound. If the plaster crumbles when poked with a screwdriver it should be removed and replaced.
Loose paint should be scraped off and glossy paint roughed up with sand paper. Wallpaper should be scraped off and all the glue removed before tiling. Always make sure the surface is clean, dry and dust free before installing tile over it.
If your existing wall is damaged beyond repair, it must be removed and replaced with either drywall, moisture resistant drywall, or backerboard. Which you choose depends on your situation.
WARNING: Some older patching compounds, textured paint and insulation may contain asbestos fibers. Some paints may contain lead. Before sanding, scraping or tearing into walls, have a trained inspector determine if asbestos or lead is present.
Drywall
Moisture-Resistant Drywall
Modern greenboard may also have been treated to make it resistant to mold.
We prefer not to use greenboard in situations where it might be exposed to a significant amount of moisture (such as tub or shower surrounds). We tend to use it only in damp situations where we would otherwise use drywall. Around tubs and showers we always use backboard.
Backerboard
(See the floor underlayment section for tips on cutting these products.)
Some backer board is a bit thinner than drywall. If your backer board meets a drywall surface, you may have to first fur out the studs with strips of builders' felt as furring to make the surfaces flush.
You also want all the stud faces to form an even plane. (Backerboard will not bend to follow variations in the studs.) Use furring to compensate for any studs that might not be flush.
Installing Backerboard
TIP: Put a blanket down in the bathtub before you work to protect it from getting scratched or chipped.
Use galvanized nails or screws to secure the backerboard. If you're working above a shower pan, be sure to nail or screw above it so you don't puncture the fabric.
The ends of the backerboard sheets should be centered over the studs, but stagger the joints so they don't line up with one another. Leave about 1/8" space between the sheets of backerboard.
Pic/s off shower wall please.
Normally you would swap out the old cartridge or gasket, in some case you can replace the valve body with a new body from behind if it is an internal wall. There are large/over size trim kit that you can get for certain valve body to take up an oopsie.
Or cut out the few tiles square that surround the valve body then patch with new cement board or green board drywall, then re tile over the area.
Normally you would swap out the old cartridge or gasket, in some case you can replace the valve body with a new body from behind if it is an internal wall. There are large/over size trim kit that you can get for certain valve body to take up an oopsie.
Or cut out the few tiles square that surround the valve body then patch with new cement board or green board drywall, then re tile over the area.
bruceb
Diamond Member
Wall Layout
The basic principle of any tile layout is that you want full tiles in the most visible areas of a room, and you hide cut tiles in less visible areas.
Generally, all of the horizontal grout lines should line up from wall-to-wall in a room. In figuring out the vertical grout lines, you should treat each wall, or section of wall, as a separate layout. This way you can choose the best layout for the visibility of each wall.
Making a Jury Stick
To make a jury stick, lay your tile in a straight line on the floor using the proper spacing for your grout joints. Be sure to include any pattern or accent tile you will be using.
Mark the tile and grout joint spacing on the stick. If your tiles are square you'll only need one jury stick, but if your tiles are rectangular you'll need one for the horizontal layout and one for the vertical layout.
Horizontal Layout
For this type of layout, first find the center of that wall section and draw a vertical plumb line using a level.
Use the jury stick to mark the spacing of the tiles horizontally. Start with a grout joint on the center line and mark tile spacing to the end of the tile section. Do not fit the tiles tightly into the corners. Leave about a ¼” gap, which will be filled later with caulk.
You never want the last tile to be less than 1/2 the width of a full tile. If it is, adjust the center line 1/2 the width of a tile in either direction. This means instead of having the grout line at the center, you will have a full tile centered on your center line. Then draw a new vertical reference line where the grout joint of the center tile falls.
You may have walls where only one side is visible, and the other side is hid behind a door or fixture. In this case, you want to start with full tiles at the visible side and put cut tiles in the hidden corner.
Vertical Layout
First locate the most visible horizontal line in the room. Measure up from this point one tile's height and draw a level horizontal line. This is to ensure you have a full tile at the most visible line. (Don’t assume that the floor or tub or countertop is level. Use a true level line as the basis of your layout strategy.)
If you have a design or trim tiles that run horizontally along the walls, determine that height and use this as your starting reference line.
Use your jury stick to see how the tiles layout going up and down from this reference line. Be sure to to leave a consistent small gap above the edge of a bathtub, countertop or floor. Again, you don't want to cut any tile to less than half its size.
And check the floor, tub and counter for level. If they’re not level, make sure you can accommodate the slope by trimming up the bottoms of successive tiles as the tiles meet the tub or floor – instead of having to create slivers of tile to fill in below your full tiles.
If your top and bottom rows are also visible you may want to put full tiles there and hide the row of cut tiles in the middle where they will be less noticeable.
Surrounds for showers usually only go up about 6 feet. Again you can start with full tiles and end with full bull nose tiles. If you need to have some cut tile you can hide them in the middle of your layout.
And keep a close eye on where light switches and outlets will fall. Make sure that the electrical cover plate will fall either entire within the tile or entirely above it.
Laying Out Sections
Wall tile is most likely to have built-in spacers. So you can set one row directly on top of the one below it, and you can butt the tiles together side to side. This means that you will need less layout lines. Make sure you have enough to work in sections, so you don’t have to set an entire wall at one go.
bruceb
Diamond Member
Installing Wall Tile
Scoop some adhesive with your notched trowel and start spreading it evenly within one section using the straight edge of the trowel. Try not to cover up your layout lines -- you'll need them to align the tiles (although layout lines are easier to see through adhesive than through the mortar used for floor tiles).
Set the first tile in a corner, twisting it a little to set it into the adhesive. Press the tiles firmly into the adhesive. If the tiles don’t have spacers you may be able to twist them slightly as you place them to better set them into the adhesive. Do not slide the tiles into position. Test one of your early tiles by prying one up by its corner and looking on the back side. The adhesive should cover about 80% of the tile. If you see only parallel lines of adhesive, the ridges are too shallow. If the adhesive is squeezing out the sides, your ridges are too deep.
During installation, some sagging can occur so use a straight-edge to check this periodically. You may need to use small plastic wedges or tile spacers to keep the tiles at the proper height.
Sometimes you won't be able to trowel the adhesive directly on the wall, like around obstacles or for small cut tiles in a corner. That's when you need to "back butter" the tiles individually.
As you are tiling showers and bathtub surrounds, leave opening for soap dishes and corner shelves.
Once you've established the layout, you can start setting tile. Be sure your wall surface is thoroughly clean of dust and debris.
In most cases you should be able to use a pre-mixed adhesive for your wall tile. Make sure you check the label to see that it's right for your situation. Some pre-mixed adhesives won't work in high moisture areas.
Start setting your wall tile at your center section near the floor and work your way out and up.
Spreading out adhesives
Using the notched side of the trowel, comb out the adhesive. Hold it at a consistent angle (about 45 degrees) so the top of the adhesive has a uniform height. The pattern of the ridges isn't important.
Setting and spacing tile
Set the remaining tiles, aligning them to your outside layout lines.
Cutting around obstacles
If you're tiling a shower or bathtub surround, you'll have to mark tiles for cuts to fit them around the plumbing. Set the neighboring tiles first, and use those to line up the tile you're marking.
You can make these cuts with a tile nippers, but don't try to go too fast. Nip off smaller chips to avoid taking off more than you need.
Don't try to be perfect with these cuts, most plumbing fixtures come with escutcheons that'll cover up the rough edges.
Cut straight lines with a tile cutter or tub saw.
Back Buttering
Spread the adhesive on the back of the tile with a notched trowel. If the tile is too small you can also use a margin trowel to spread the adhesive.
Set the tile giving it a little twist to insure good contact with the underlayment.
Tub and shower accessories
After the tile adhesive is dry you can install these. Butter the backs with tile adhesive or use a silicone caulk.
Use masking tape to hold these pieces in place until the adhesive or silicone dries.
StageLeft
No Lifer
If you plan on tiling the entire thing the best thing you can do on top of that board is to use Kerdi orange membrane. It literally waterproofs the shower/bath area when it's in place. It's in all the mike holmes shows, but really it is good stuff. But if you're only replacing a small part of the bathroom you'll just go with whatever is there.
waffleironhead
Diamond Member
If you want to avoid a whole lot of hastle you can install a plastic panel set.
I used to sell all kinds of them, especially remodelers and landlords. They are easy to install and fairly inexpensive.
http://www.mascobath.com/applications.php?bid=2&aid=16&page=3
I used to sell all kinds of them, especially remodelers and landlords. They are easy to install and fairly inexpensive.
http://www.mascobath.com/applications.php?bid=2&aid=16&page=3
Yeah them kits are way easier & cheaper for DIYers, or a top section of a 2 piece insert. However, I still like the look of tiles.
Squisher
Lifer
I'm not sure Kerdi is able to be used in vertical situations. Floor pans in showers are lined with floor pan material (thick plastic sheeting) before mudding and walls are covered with regular 4 mil plastic before tacking in mesh for mudding or putting up backer board.
This guy is the expert. There are forums at his site.
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Schluter Kerdi can be use on the vertical with thinset, but the system doesn't provide much more protection if any over that of traditional cement board/green board. One setback with SK is that it contract/expand with temperature that pulls the tiles apart leaving cracks & fractures in the grout.
