Basic HTPC; very simple and no frills; by newb for newbs

[liquidsense]

1. Use. Download 1280x720 video via wireless; output to HDTV via DVI or HDMI; watching streaming HD video content (sometimes via Flash players); Bluray video playing. I'm trying to build my second system, but this time for my parents. Size is one of the biggest factors right now, so Mini-ITX is probably the way to go. My parents currently have a laptop (Sony Vaio @1.8Ghz, GeForce 9300) hooked up to the TV, which they unhappily detach and re-attach every day so they can also use their laptop for other normal purposes.

2. Budget. $500.00.

3. Purchase location. US; Newegg; Microcenter.

4. Brand preference. Intel/AMD.

5. Current parts. Windows 7.

6. Additional: no overclocking, no gaming, hope to build by October 1, 2009.

7. Notes: Size is the biggest concern (assuming that the "use" requirement is met). Because of the very peculiar TV setup, my parent's only can have a Wii/Mac Mini size box on top of their stand, or a very slim (i.e., 4") case that would stand next to the TV stand on the left.

I seriously considered the ASRock ION 330 w/ BD. But after researching the board and chipset, I learned that dual-core atoms (even with nVidia IONs) cannot handle that CPU-intensive process of full screen Flash video or HD Flash video. (See: http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=602).

So, I started looking around for a different mini-computer, but one with a core 2 duo processor. I saw a couple items here: http://www.thebookpc.com/produ.../68_33/products_id/430, but found them to be quite expensive.

Then I went back to the thought of getting a Mac Mini. My primary concern was with the mixed OS network issues. But, what about clean installing it with Windows? Can I just clean install the Mac Mini with Windows 7 and call it a day?

I'm sure people will ask why I would pay a premium for a Mac, if I was going to install Windows, but I just can't find anything that is this small that packs this much oomph into a tiny footprint. Is there such a thing?


---------edit----------------

So I threw a Micro-ATX system together, that should fit in the allotted space. Could you give me some thoughts on this system?

CASE:
APEX DM-387 (12.75" x 3.9" x 15.75") w/ 275W PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16811154087
$50.00

MOBO:
ZOTAC GF9300 HDMI Micro-ATX (Integrated GeForce 9300 GPU)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813500019
$100.00 ($80.00 after rebate)

CPU:
Intel E7400 @ 2.8 GHz
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819115206
$80.00 (at Microcenter)

RAM:
G.SKILL (2 x 2GB) DDR2 800 240-Pin
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231122
$52.00

HDD:
Western Digital 640GB Black
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16822136319
$75.00

ODD:
LITE-ON 4x BD-ROM SATA
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16827106326
$68.00

Other:
Molex to SATA adapter (only one SATA power on PSU)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16812201002
$4.00

$409.00 total.

 

[bob4432]

i am using a full size rig for my htpc and a loud gpu but if you take those out, this will give you some guidelines.

- currently running a am2 5000 w/ 2GB ram
- gpu is a x1800xt - loud but is easily drowned out by the ht
- i am connecting in via regula vga - no dvi or hdmi for video
- for audio, i am connecting into the receiver via an optical cable to pass dd and dts
- use the current version of vlc for the player
- connecting to my home serve via a GbE cable as i don't keep the movies on the machine since it has a 30GB ssd as the hdd

this setup only uses about 30% cpu usage and doesn't push the gpu hard at all - fan speed doesn't even spped up.

fwiw, i had a athlon 3000 xp single core and it couldn't do 720p anything running xp. hope this helps a little bit.

bob

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: liquidsense
Basic HTPC; very simple and no frills; by newb for newbs
please don't make me get a mac mini

Notes:
Size is a big concern - the smaller the better.

Final note. I am seriously considering the Mac Mini, which, I'm learning, is unbelievably tiny, and would meet all of my specifications.

Buy a Mac Mini

 

[M0RPH]

I'm sure someone can recommend a build for you, but before you do that let me suggest some other options.

1) Check out a Dell Inspiron slimline. I personally think they work nicely as an HTPC.
2) An XBOX 360 w/ wireless adapter or a PS3. Download movies to the main PC share them wirelessly to the console.
3) A WD TV HD player and an external USB hard drive. Download movies with the main PC to the external drive, then plug that into your WD player.

 

[elconejito]

Unfortunately, I don't know anything about mini-ITX. However, if you're willing to step up into the world of micro-ATX there are TONS of options.

Almost any recent onboard video (GPU) like Nvidia 8000/9000, AMD 780/790 will play 720p. Even Intel's latest (GMA X4500HD?) will probably be OK for that. The only question is whether or not the videos you are watching have codec support on the GPU, otherwise it will fall on the processor for decoding.

I would look at this possible combination. Intel CPU and motherboard with integrated graphics.
ZOTAC GF9300-A-E w/ Nvidia Geforce 9300 MicroATX for $99 ($79 after MIR if that matters)
Intel e5200 for $65
G.Skill 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 800 for $51
WD Green 1TB WD10EADS for $85
SeaSonic SS-300ET 300W for $40
DVD R/W for $30 there's tons of options

Total, not including a case = $370

Another option is same as above, but with discrete graphics. (I'd actually go this route were I in your shoes).

ECS G31T-M MicroATX for $45 ($37 after MIR if that matters)
Intel e5200 for $65
SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4350 low-profile ready for $40
G.Skill 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 800 for $51
WD Green 1TB WD10EADS for $85
SeaSonic SS-300ET 300W for $40
DVD R/W for $30 there's tons of options

Total, not including a case = $356

There are several options for quality power supplies in this range.

There are other video cards as well, but the 4350 decodes everything and is *very* low power. This particular one has both a regular bracket and a low-profile bracket.

If you wanted to spend a little more you could get a faster processor like an e7400 for $110 or a low power quad like the Q8200 for $150. The quad will handle anything you can throw at it.

You can find a micro-ATX case that is about the size of a cable box (maybe a little taller).

For your operating system, I'd recommend the Windows 7 release candidate. I am pretty sure it's still available for free download and works until March of next year. Unless you have a copy of XP or Vista lying around, or you'll have to budget another $100 for the OS. You could also put Linux on there, but then you'd be in the same boat as if you had gotten a Mac mini.

[side note]
A few months ago I would have told you to get a low-power AMD setup, but I can't find the 45w AMD x2 CPUs anymore like the 4050e. Where did they go?

 

[yh125d]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813500022

Mini ITX, geforce 9300, integrated WiFi. Stick in a e2200 or something, 2gb RAM, a HD, some case and a picopsu and call it a day


Or one of these dual core atom + 9400m boards with wifi

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813500030
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813500027

 

[Informant X]

If you want small I would go with the Atom based Zotac motherboard. This one is Dual Core and is capable of playing Blu-Ray and DVD movies without skipping a frame. Look around for reviews, all have said the same thing. It's a great board and has native HDMI output and DVI and built in wireless. To top it off the whol system under load will draw under 40 watts of power. You said small right? This motherboard with cpu/wireless/vid/sound will fit in the palm of your hand at 7x7 inches. It's also passively cooled and completely silent

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813500027 189.00 AR

Board also has raid. Really the only sacrifice is expansion slots. Lite gaming can even been done on t his board though I stress light.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16811128052 39.99

Case with 300 watt psu

Not sure how big a HD you want but here is a 1TB HD

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16822152173 79.99

Then just slap in ur optical drive and your rolling for....... ~310.00 or so for your ultral small/footprint, not to mention green friendly (since it will probaly be on 24/7) computer. I'm in the market for a HTPC myself and I think this is the route i'm taking.

 

[bob4432]

anybody think one of these small units could get down to 20W draw at the wall? anybody have a zotac setup and a kill-a-watt? would be interested to see real W draws..

 

[neomatrix724]

Mini-ITX can get a bit more expensive and has some performance limits...for your purposes it would be fine, but really wouldn't be upgradable.

The first set up recommended by elconejito is actually pretty solid. I'd say go with a slightly stronger processor but it should work for your specs and then some.

I'm runnin an ASROCK Alive NF7G-FullHD3.0 (with an integrated Nvidia Geforce 7050)
AMD Phenom X4 (the first gen one)
G.SKill 4GB PC2-6400
2 1 TB Seagate Drives, 1 320gb Seagate
Antec EarthWatts 350W (SeaSonic is better, but the antec can come in cheap =) )

I run XBMC as a front-end which then drops to MediaPlayerClassic-HomeCinema for 1080P content for GPU acceleration (which XBMC doesn't have yet). The system also acts as a reliable file/streaming server to multiple systems in the house simultaneously =).

Again, I was aiming more for cost, and I've been cobbling this thing together over quite some time. I think the core parts i mentioned above were only about $400, I had some extra cash and got a Silverstone case and some silent fans. It's a pretty solid set up...server wakes up when it receives a media request...falls asleep when it's done...very low maintenance =).

Intel would probably perform better and you do indeed get what you pay for.

 

[mmntech]

What's wrong with the Mac Mini? Macs are dead easy to use so it would probably be a vary smooth transition for your parents. It's probably one of the best mini-ITX systems in it's price range. I know even Atom ones can run up to $500+ once you factor in the cost of Windows, something everyone forgets to add when making these build suggestions. The Mini is $600 and all you need from there is a $10 mini-Displayport to HDMI adapter from Monoprice. Plus upgrade to Snow Leopard is free.

Failing that, if it's just for playing videos and music, you could always just pick up an Xbox 360 or PS3.

 

[Informant X]

Originally posted by: mmntech
What's wrong with the Mac Mini? Macs are dead easy to use so it would probably be a vary smooth transition for your parents. It's probably one of the best mini-ITX systems in it's price range. I know even Atom ones can run up to $500+ once you factor in the cost of Windows, something everyone forgets to add when making these build suggestions. The Mini is $600 and all you need from there is a $10 mini-Displayport to HDMI adapter from Monoprice. Plus upgrade to Snow Leopard is free.

Failing that, if it's just for playing videos and music, you could always just pick up an Xbox 360 or PS3.

The cost of that whole Atom system with the OS would stil be ~200 dollars cheaper. And most people already have an OS so the difference would be even greater ~300 or so.

Plus the OP said no frills HTPC, and also said he didn't want a Mac mini. To the OP, get that build I suggested, you'll be more than happy as literally every single review I've read about gave it top honors and majority gave it editors choice award.

 

[elconejito]

There's nothing wrong with a mac mini. But I think for your average citizen setting up a mixed OS network is just plain asking for it.

I know I can do it.
And I bet most people on this forum can do it.
But I know my parents can't.

And even if you set it up perfectly for them, at some point something will disconnect from something else and they will have no clue what to do with it. Giving them a new OS to figure out just probably isn't worth the headache.

If they didn't have any previous experience with windows, or there was nothing else on the network it needed to "talk" to, or if the parents were a little more tech-savvy then a mac would be a fine choice even at it's higher price.

Also, the builder in me wants to put it together myself....

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'm really surprised that no-one is suggesting to build a micro-ATX rig based on a 785G mobo. I built one based on a 780G mobo, and a BE-2350 CPU. Haven't actually used it yet, but AFAIK it should work fine, even for 1080P content.

 

[elconejito]

I'd agree with that VirtualLarry, but I didn't suggest one because a) the OP asked for Intel and more importantly b) I couldn't find any of the 45w AMD chips on newegg...

 

[yinan]

Dell Hybrids are good too, real small as well. I have one and it works great as a HTPC running Windows 7.

 

[Informant X]

Originally posted by: elconejito
I'd agree with that VirtualLarry, but I didn't suggest one because a) the OP asked for Intel and more importantly b) I couldn't find any of the 45w AMD chips on newegg...

The Zotac Ion is Intel based, and the WHOLE system under load will draw less than 45watts.

 

[elconejito]

I'm pretty sure (positive really) that those chips don't pull 45w by themselves. My fileserver is running one of the AMD BE 45w chips and right now the whole thing pulls ~60w. I think when I was first putting it together with only one drive for OS is was about 45w (can't recall exactly).

That Zotac is probably the best bet within the OP's parameters, but we're just throwing out other options. As I said before, I'm really not familiar with ITX based boards. And I really like a 780G (or 785G now, I guess) based system which would offer a little more flexiblility in addons like tuner cards and would probably cost a little less. But as I said, I can't find those CPUs anymore. At least not on newegg and I'm too lazy to search elsewhere

But definitely the Zotac Ion (and similar) are worth a real good look.

 

[liquidsense]

Thanks everyone for the great advice. I'll take all the suggestions into consideration.

Also, I realized that I had previously purchased a powerline ethernet adapter for my parents. So, I don't necessarily need a wireless adapter. I realize that the recommended mobos have integrated wireless, but this powerline adapter should take one more potential trouble-area out of the picture.

 

[mc866]

I know you said you prefer Intel not AMD but I wanted to suggest this anyway because it's a decent deal and similar to the setup I just built:

Antec Black M FusionRemote 350 Micro ATX Media Center - has earthwatts 380 and Fusion Remote $120.00 at Newegg
GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX Motherboard
AMD Athlon II X2 240 Regor 2.8GHz Socket AM3 65W- Processor and the board above for $122.98 at Newegg
2GB of Memory ~$25.00
1 TB hard drive ~$80
Bluray 4X drive $58.99 at Zip Zoom Fly
=$406.97 without OS or Bing cashback that you could take advantage of

OS:
Ubuntu running XBMC - Free
Vista Premium OEM with Win 7 upgrade $109.99

So reasonably speaking right around your $500 threashold for a very nice HTPC that has an included bluray drive and can produce full 1080p HD. Not the smallest footprint but I think the Antec cases look nice and fit well with other A/V equipment.

 

[fatpat268]

This:

ASRock ION 330

Fairly cheap at $380. It's a full system. You don't have to build it, and it'll be smaller than most anything that you can build yourself. You sacrifice expansion slots, but from the sounds of it, you really don't need them. Get this if you don't want the hassle of building another computer. Apparently, there's also a Blu-Ray version of this computer, but newegg doesn't stock it.

/thread

 

[liquidsense]

Originally posted by: fatpat268
This:

ASRock ION 330

Fairly cheap at $380. It's a full system. You don't have to build it, and it'll be smaller than most anything that you can build yourself. You sacrifice expansion slots, but from the sounds of it, you really don't need them. Get this if you don't want the hassle of building another computer. Apparently, there's also a Blu-Ray version of this computer, but newegg doesn't stock it.

/thread

Hmm... This is very intriguing. Thank you for the heads up. Something about this system seems to jibe with me. If I wait around, I could snag the one with the bluray drive and kill two birds with one stone (as my folks will likely need a br player down the road).

As I was researching the Asrock 330, I came across this thread. (http://forums.slickdeals.net/s...php?sduid=0&t=1491833). Posters there debated the strength of this system. And, though much of the discussion is over my head, some argue that the Asrock 330 cannot handle certain HD content without overclocking, as well as utilizing video players with hardware acceleration....or something like that.

For my usage requirements (described in the original post), will the Asrock 330 suffice? (I think my folks are primarily downloading 1280x720 .avi, .mp4, and other random video files. I think they also use some strange video player which streams content of a similar resolution.)

 

[fatpat268]

Originally posted by: liquidsense

Originally posted by: fatpat268
This:

ASRock ION 330

Fairly cheap at $380. It's a full system. You don't have to build it, and it'll be smaller than most anything that you can build yourself. You sacrifice expansion slots, but from the sounds of it, you really don't need them. Get this if you don't want the hassle of building another computer. Apparently, there's also a Blu-Ray version of this computer, but newegg doesn't stock it.

/thread

Hmm... This is very intriguing. Thank you for the heads up. Something about this system seems to jibe with me. If I wait around, I could snag the one with the bluray drive and kill two birds with one stone (as my folks will likely need a br player down the road).

As I was researching the Asrock 330, I came across this thread. (http://forums.slickdeals.net/s...php?sduid=0&t=1491833). Posters there debated the strength of this system. And, though much of the discussion is over my head, some argue that the Asrock 330 cannot handle certain HD content without overclocking, as well as utilizing video players with hardware acceleration....or something like that.

For my usage requirements (described in the original post), will the Asrock 330 suffice? (I think my folks are primarily downloading 1280x720 .avi, .mp4, and other random video files. I think they also use some strange video player which streams content of a similar resolution.)

I just read the topic that you linked, and it seems the naysayers are generally misinformed. The GPU will decode 1080p fine, provided you have the proper drivers installed. But at the same time, you have to consider how much 1080p content actually is out there. The only 1080p really is blu-rays and blu-ray rips (which can also be had in 720p). It'll decode 720p without a problem.

The main problem is that a poper media center program, boxee (which is based off of xbmc), doesn't utilize gpu acceleration and will use the CPU instead. Which is fine if you have a good cpu, but an atom isn't designed for that.

Hope that helps, I think it'll be a great solution for your problem and should save you some hassle of building a system.

 

[liquidsense]

Been researching a lot based on all of the responses. I was leaning towards highly recommended dual-core atom @ 1.6Ghz w/ nVidia ION -- and I really liked what I was seeing with the ASRock ION 330 nettop box. But as I did more research, I found that the the dual-core atoms cannot handle processor-intensive full screen flash or HD flash video (i.e., Hulu, YouTube, etc.) (See http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3566).

I would assume that a different Mini-ITX board like this one (Zotac GF9300) with an Intel e2200 would probably do the trick, right? But, I don't know... what is the baseline Intel processor that can smoothly play processor-heavy HD flash content?

 

[LostPassword]

e5200 is a popular htpc processor.

 

[liquidsense]

[deleted]

Please see first post.