Basic Cat5 question, any help appreciated.

[Sluggo]

Building a new house I have the following question. If we wire all the rooms w/ nice Cat5 cable, can the single Cat5 to each room carry our regular phones in addition to the network information? Or do we need to run two Cat5 to everywhere a workstation and phone might be located? We are already running homeruns to each location, just was hoping I didnt have to make two homeruns to each location.

 

[Norssak]

one cat5 = One network connection OR one/two phone connections
one cat3 = One/Two phone connections

[edit]
Ok, when you say homerun what do you mean?
I'm gettng this picture in my head where you are running a cable from the basement -> room A -> room B -> room C -> back to Basement.
Now that works for an analog residential phone system where each room pretty much has access to the same extensions. Now with network cables you can't do it like that. You have to run a single cable from your central location (I'll call it basement)to each room. So it becomes:

Basement -> Room A
Basement -> Room B
Basement -> Room C

 

[Harrald]

If it's in the budget run the two drops. It'll come in handy later.

Now for my next trick. I'm thinking about replacing all my Cat5 with Cat7. The only problem is the $.50 a foot cost.

Also I use Cat5 for all phone drops. You never know when you'll want to make it a network drop.

 

[CraigC]

Residential phone service doesn't run from room to room, it runs to a junction box/punch down panel. Theoretically it'll work but I would do the 2 drop routine using CAT5e, CAT7 if you have money to burn.

Throw all kinds of stuff in those walls now when they are open, cable costs pennies. It'll cost a fortune later if you decide on something else.

I saw an episode of "This Old House" where they even installed fiber! Of course I think it was Bill Gate$' house they were doing.

 

[PC Freak]

Sluggo, i've been watch your thread for a few hours seeing what answers will get.

First let me say, yes you can run both data and phone on one Cat5 cable.

This is why
On your phone you only use one pair for the two middle pins in the RJ-11 connector/jack.
On the data side you use 2 pairs. Pins 1,2 (TX) & 3,6 (RX).

So all in all you'll be using only 3 pairs out of a 4 pair cable. So you can have another phone in a room if you want.
Of course you know you won't be able to have more than two computers networked in a room unless you HR at least another drop, and i assume your trying to us as little cable as possible.

If it were me i would run several drops. It's just simpler, and cable is cheap.
Eaiser to run the cable now, than if you decdie to run it later.

Ok. If this is all ok and you don't plan to add computers or drops in the future then I only see one hurddle left.
When you HR your drops from a room back to the demark(punch down), you will have to extended the data paris from there to your Hub/Switch.

Hope this sheads some light.

 

[cavingjan]

I would simply suggest making the two runs and a pull string run for everything. Cable is cheap and easy to install when the walls are open. We are talking on the order of 1000ft spool of cat5 for around $60 from places like Home Depot. You can split the cable between two uses but its not a guarantee it'll work without any little side effects. If you run the two or three runs to the room, you will have expandability in the way of adding more computers or phonelines later. For what its worth a large 4 bedroom house took about 600 ft to run 3 drops to each upstairs bedroom, two drops in every other room including bathrooms. Note: just because you run the wire, doesn't mean you need to hook the lines up. Out of all those rooms currently done, only half of them are punched down and finished but they are there for when we need them.
The homerun method is the best. Just pick a nice out of the way room where pets won't get to it to wreck havoc.
I might even go so far as running coax cable to each bedroom (possibly two in each room on opposite walls) and possibly even speaker wire if you want that type of thing.
Be kind to yourself and get a nice big patch panel for the wiring closet and label the lines well and clearly.

 

[Sluggo]

I guess I should have been more clear about what I am doing.

I am a home builder, and starting a whole new neighborhood. I want to tell my customers (truthfully) that there house is wired for the foreseeable future. Networking, cable TV, satellite..etc. By a homerun I mean that each RG-6, Cat-5 is run from its point in the house to a central location in a huge wall mounted box in a closet. The box is big enough for a hub, telephone company box etc. When I wired my own house, I ran 2 Cat-5 and 2 RG-6 to about 10 locations in the house, but it cost quite a bit.

What I was wondering is if it was worth the added cost to wire my spec homes like I wired my own house. My electrician charges about $20 per drop for phone and cable. I would have about 8 locations per house to do this, approx cost of $500. Just not sure if people are willing to pay for this or not. I could drop the cost in half if I only made one drop of Cat-5 and RG-6 per location.

Hope this helps to explain what I am wanting to do.

 

[CraigC]

Hey Sluggo,

What kind of building contractor can't "hide" $500 in the cost of the job? A contractor with some modicum of integrity? Where were you when I needed you? Mine didn't bother to try to hide a couple of thousand in stuff I've never seen. At least your customers will see and probably use what you did.

 

[Sluggo]

Dont be so sure, for a couple of years now, people have asked what that funny blue wire is, why even try?

 

[PC Freak]

Run 2 cat-5 drops (at least)

 

[Norssak]

PC-Freak

ok, assuming that Sluggo uses 3 out of 4 pairs as you suggest.....how is he going to take advantage of it?

-I an unaware of a small splitter plug that would accomondate this nonstandard config.

-If he strips the cable at each end and punches the pairs down into 2 different jacks ( 2 at each end) then he might as well use all 4 pairs and have support for 2 analog lines on the second jack. In this case it doesn't matter a bit how the pairs happend to line up originally. This is also rather unprofessional in my opinion.

-If you are thinking he could EITHER use the line for phone or network, well that's were we started.

I don't know, maybe you are onto something which I don't see, please fill in some details.

 

[Mday]

2 cat5e, 2 rg6.

see here, http://www.smarthome.com/8682.html you should be able to find cheaper sources. i know these bundles exist for bulk purchasing and have seen them used in new home constructions and remodeling.

--

sometimes it's just cheaper to just have pvc and put a string in there to pull future wires ;-) of coursez

 

[Mday]

oh, bulk wiring is dirt cheap.

 

[Unclemo]

$500 is worth it when buying a home. If they have any common sense they will see that it is worth the money. If the homes are for lower-middle class then maybe they won't see the benefit of it. I believe that most people are starting (if not already) to see the future being multiple PCs in the home and car. Of course us networking nerds have been already wondering how we lived without it before. Anyhow, it is simply a financial analysis of your customer's needs, wants and desires. May I ask how big of development and the cost of the houses going to be?

 

[Sluggo]

The neighborhood is about 70 lots. Price range of 180's to 250's.

 

[Jamey]

Use two CAT 5e cables along with 1 RG-6 quad shielded cable in each bedroom/kitchen. Run an extra RG-6 quad shielded in den/bonus areas. On top of this...MAKE SURE to run two 1 or 1.5 inch pipes from under the house up to the attic if it has one. This will allow for almost any upgrading for high or low voltage wiring later without too much hassle. Use the homerun method for all wires, probably contained in a closet inside a panel box for wiring. Make sure to have power available there for network switches/routers or cable amplifiers. Keep all these wires away from power lines as much as possible. Keep in mind where these jacks should be run in relationship to furniture placement. People don't set their phone in a bedroom next to their TV. It's next to their bed. For this reason, you may want to run the CAT5e together, and the RG-6 in another box. A phone jack will be needed with the RG-6 for DSS if they want it, so think about that in the den and bonus areas. I would agree this should add about $500 to the cost of the house, but it will look very professional and upscale. I was VERY impressed to see this done in a near by town. I wanted to wire alot of my house, but didn't realize how cheap the wire is. I didn't run nearly as much as I should have. I bought the wire later, only to have to do some now with the walls already up and painted. It's no big deal though, since I ran those two 1 inch pipes.

 

[jmcoreymv]

Im not sure whether or not this is an issue because I might be completely off base, but if you split the Cat5 Cable into a phone and network set, wont the analog phone system when it rings mess up the network system because the voltage on the phone line will jump and cause interference with the network. I thought you could only split up the wires when you were using a digital phone system like most businesses use.

 

[Mday]

i recommend using a metal conduit though as opposed to PVC pipe. it'll serve as a shield.

anyway, the existence of a phone line within the cat5 cable (even cat5e) will degrade the performance of an existing network connection.

having a string there is best i suppose. what if the owners want more than just whatever you choose to offer ;-)

 

[cavingjan]

For that price range, I'd consider $500 a drop in the bucket. And well worth it. But I have to ask this question: who are the people going to buy this type of home. Where I live, this is a highend house. Where I work, its a run of the mill lower middle class house.
When you say he charges per drop, do you mean per line or per wire drop location? AKA is it the same price if you have him run two lines to the same spot as running two lines to opposite ends of the room? Am I reading you correctly?

 

[Sluggo]

Thanks for all the help. We started wiring today, we are dropping 2 RG-6 and 2 CAT-5 to each location. Electrician is cutting me a small break on the cost since he can pull 2 wires at once. Will add about $250 cost on my end, from what we were wiring with before. I think it is a good deal, some people will ot appreciate it, but lots will, and thank me for saving them much hassle and money.