Basement ceiling options

[TechBoyJK]

Hi All,

Figured I'd start a new thread for this one.

Putting together a music production/listening room in my basement.

We initially planned on hanging drop ceiling and looking for tiles that have acoustic absorption properties.

We ruled out drywall as there's quite a few utility items that we'd want to retain access to, and using drywall would make that difficult to deal with without having to tear into it each time we had an issue.

The ceiling is already stuffed with r-19 faced fiberglass. I got the stuff on sale for huge discount, which is the only reason it was within budget. Per some advice, I opened up the facing on the batts to prevent moisture issues from cropping up. It was actually advised to use unfaced, which is why I tore away some of the facing on what I put up. All in all, it worked great and stapled up nicely and snug. Also, because of issues that can come up with insulated basement ceilings, we only did the side that will be for music. Apparently too much insulation in a basement ceiling can make it hard for the basement to breath, and can cause excess moisture to build up that would otherwise go up into the upper levels.

We did some before and after tests, and it made a HUGE difference in the amount of sound passing through the floor. Not perfect, but likely 6db if not a little more. Very glad with the results.

But now we need to put in a ceiling. As I said, if this were an upper floor, I would use 2 sheets of drywall. But I don't think that's a practical solution for the basement. Are there any other options besides a drop ceiling? At least options that would be good for sound issues?

 

[NetWareHead]

If it's a basement ceiling, you can use drywall but put in access panels for the important stuff u will need access to. It's not the most sightly, but for a music room, I doubt you'd care and id think that drywall has better sound blocking than a drop ceiling. You can get a higher ceiling with drywall vs drop ceiling.

Drywall is typically strapped to the joists with furring. Instead u can decouple the drywall from the joists with a product called resilient channels which should save you a few more db. Installs the same as furring.

 

[SLU Aequitas]

Note that if you're going down that route, you need to start thinking about all the flanking paths. A ceiling alone really isn't effective, as the sound will easily travel up via the walls.

It also gets quite expensive

For my home theater I went full two layers of 5/8 drywall with green glue in between (dampen and absorb), used acoustical sealant between floors/walls/ceiling, and decoupled the room from the outside via clips and resilient channel and staggered stud construction. Putty pads for all switches, backer boxes for lights and speakers.

Basically saying is that depending on your goals and budget, doubling your ceiling and installing channel may not be worth the cost.

Also, just install access panels, super cheap from any box store and simple to install. Drywall ceiling looks way nicer, is better on the sound, and saves you more headroom.

 

[Exterous]

If you want to wait 6 months or so I'll let you know how much 1 sheet of drywall, IB1 clips and hat channel + R19 insulation deadens the sound. An expensive shipment of crap is expected from the Soundproofing company tomorrow so I can start framing

 

[SLU Aequitas]

Ex, do two layers drywall and glue in between, well worth it speaking from experience with my theater. If you're in the MA area, you're welcome to my spare green glue 5gal.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Ex, do two layers drywall and glue in between, well worth it speaking from experience with my theater. If you're in the MA area, you're welcome to my spare green glue 5gal.

Budget is tight; so I'm leaning towards just doing a basic drywall ceiling.

1) If I just screw the drywall into the joists, It'll maximize room height, and be something my dad and I can knock out in a weekend.
2) If this is all that's done, if I need to cut into the ceiling down the road, it won't be a big deal to repair.
3) I already have most of the ceiling stuffed with 2 layers of r19 (which made a HUGE difference).
4) Would be easy to run some new lighting.

If I do anything more, ie, 2 layers with Green Glue, clips, etc. it not only dramatically raises the financial costs, but the labor costs as well. Plus, if anything happens and I need to cut into the ceiling, it's a much more complicated endeavor to get it patched up in a way that doesn't diminish the integrity of the original effort.

Thoughts? Keeping it to simply tacking up single sheets could keep the costs below $200. Much cheaper and easier than hanging a drop ceiling. However, doing a more complicated, dual layer , suspended drywall ceiling might be enough of a burden to hold things up for a while. Might be a month or two before I could afford it, and even then getting it done will be an additional burden.

 

[NetWareHead]

1) If I just screw the drywall into the joists, It'll maximize room height, and be something my dad and I can knock out in a weekend.

I can't tell you the exact reason why, but my carpenter was adamant that drywall on a ceiling needs furring. He would not attach drywall directly to the joists. I think he nsaid something to do with people walking on the floor above impacting the drywall. Somebody else can chime in if this is right or wrong.

Nail the furring strips perpendicular to the joists, countersink the screws into the furring so the drywall will lay flat. Then scew drywall to strips.

Instead of strips, you can furr with resilient channels which are made for sound applications.

 

[Exterous]

Ex, do two layers drywall and glue in between, well worth it speaking from experience with my theater. If you're in the MA area, you're welcome to my spare green glue 5gal.

I appreciate the offer but but thats a several state drive from where I am

Budget is tight; so I'm leaning towards just doing a basic drywall ceiling.

1) If I just screw the drywall into the joists, It'll maximize room height, and be something my dad and I can knock out in a weekend.
2) If this is all that's done, if I need to cut into the ceiling down the road, it won't be a big deal to repair.
3) I already have most of the ceiling stuffed with 2 layers of r19 (which made a HUGE difference).
4) Would be easy to run some new lighting.

If I do anything more, ie, 2 layers with Green Glue, clips, etc. it not only dramatically raises the financial costs, but the labor costs as well. Plus, if anything happens and I need to cut into the ceiling, it's a much more complicated endeavor to get it patched up in a way that doesn't diminish the integrity of the original effort.

Thoughts? Keeping it to simply tacking up single sheets could keep the costs below $200. Much cheaper and easier than hanging a drop ceiling. However, doing a more complicated, dual layer , suspended drywall ceiling might be enough of a burden to hold things up for a while. Might be a month or two before I could afford it, and even then getting it done will be an additional burden.

I would at least do the hat channel and clips instead of going straight into the joists. Doesn't take up much additional space and pretty straight forward to install. I'm thinking I might snap a line along the drywall to make it easy to screw into the channel. You could give it a quick sound test when you're done to see if you're happy with the sound absorption. If you're not happy you could the add a second layer. This is what I plan on doing since I am a bit concerned about ceiling height

 

[Exterous]

I can't tell you the exact reason why, but my carpenter was adamant that drywall on a ceiling needs furring. He would not attach drywall directly to the joists. I think he nsaid something to do with people walking on the floor above impacting the drywall. Somebody else can chime in if this is right or wrong.

In my last HT I screwed them into the joists and rarely noticed an impact. My projector was ceiling mounted and I only ever noticed vibrations in the family room above if someone was running around - nothing from normal walking. Not saying its right or wrong but I didn't notice any negative effects over the 6 years I used the room. The resilient channel is a better overall recommendation and isn't that expensive though

 

[SLU Aequitas]

I'd go clips then, as worst case you can just throw a second layer plus absorbing medium like green glue further down the line. If you go right to joist, you're going to have to tear down and redo everything, meaning more work and costs (and yes, you could be super careful and save your original drywall).

Also, if noise isn't a huge concern, save the money on the drywall and green glue altogether and put them into treatments.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Hi Guys,

The idea that tacking the drywall directly to the joists could cause problems since people will be walking on the floors above makes a lot of sense to me. On that idea alone I've ruled out doing so.

So my only option is to use clips or revert back to hanging drop ceiling.

I like the idea of sticking to a single layer of drywall for now and only considering a 2nd sheet with green glue if after a while I think it'd be worth it. Stuffing the ceiling with insulation (two layers of batts) already made a huge difference.

So now I'm going to investigate what kind of clips to use, etc.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Anybody have recommendations on the clips to use?

 

[NetWareHead]

Mentioned a few times in this thread already: resilient channel can be used in place of furring to hang ceiling drywall. It acoustically decouples the drywall from framing.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Mentioned a few times in this thread already: resilient channel can be used in place of furring to hang ceiling drywall. It acoustically decouples the drywall from framing.

Ahh, I should be more clear. I'm asking for references to specific vendors to use.

 

[Exterous]

Ahh, I should be more clear. I'm asking for references to specific vendors to use.

I got mine from here:
http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/product/ib-1-clip/
the hat channel you can get from most local big box hardware stores. They have specific recommendations on size and gauge which I don't recall off hand (but its on their website)

Seemed pretty cheap but I didn't shop around much. They give a ton of free advice at AVS forums and are fellow Michiganders so I wanted to support them.

 

[SLU Aequitas]

Used them as well, they're a great resource (in addition to their website which is awesome). Did my clips, acoustic sealant, green glue, and putty pads through them.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Since this will be for a ceiling, do I need the IB2 clip for fire rating?

 

[JimKiler]

If you want to wait 6 months or so I'll let you know how much 1 sheet of drywall, IB1 clips and hat channel + R19 insulation deadens the sound. An expensive shipment of crap is expected from the Soundproofing company tomorrow so I can start framing

Why are you using insulation instead of sound dampening material? I know it is more expensive but the stuff I got at home depot does not get ruined with water and takes almost 2,000 degrees before it melts (not burns) and it is non insulating so the basement can still breathe. Also the stuff is stiffer than insulation making it easier to install.

OP, I was going to do an acoustical drop ceilng but my electrician talked me out of it saying it would not look as nice and the cost to do can lights would be more expensive.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Why are you using insulation instead of sound dampening material? I know it is more expensive but the stuff I got at home depot does not get ruined with water and takes almost 2,000 degrees before it melts (not burns) and it is non insulating so the basement can still breathe. Also the stuff is stiffer than insulation making it easier to install.

OP, I was going to do an acoustical drop ceilng but my electrician talked me out of it saying it would not look as nice and the cost to do can lights would be more expensive.

In regards to insulation vs sound dampening material.. for me at least... Cost.. I know in my case, I got r19 with sound absorption for about 1/5th the cost of roxul, which is a variance that meant the difference between something.. or nothing at all. The cost variance was so big I was able to doublestuff the batts between the joists. Even double stuffing the joists the total cost for insulation was only $125.

I'm only using it in about 2/5 of the basement, but its over the area that will have drums, a PA, mixing equipment. In my case I used batts which were perfect for my joists. More than half of the basement won't have anything in the joists, which should help minimize any issues with the basement's ability to breath.

 

[Exterous]

Why are you using insulation instead of sound dampening material? I know it is more expensive but the stuff I got at home depot does not get ruined with water and takes almost 2,000 degrees before it melts (not burns) and it is non insulating so the basement can still breathe. Also the stuff is stiffer than insulation making it easier to install.

OP, I was going to do an acoustical drop ceilng but my electrician talked me out of it saying it would not look as nice and the cost to do can lights would be more expensive.

Lots of different studies have been posted on avs forum that show dedicated sound insulation has minimal to inconclusive advantages over drywall + hat channel +clips +r19 despite its much higher cost. I don't think many people plan on getting their ceiling wet and you can let your stud walls breath to prevent moisture build up. Proper drywall insulation also results in a fire block and proper hvac prep will take care of breathing issues

Pink fluffy is more of a pita to install though

 

[TechBoyJK]

Ok, I'm going to use the clips+furring+single sheet of drywall.

Just emailed SPC for a quote for the clips. Anybody have any other resources to point out? My dad and I will be doing the install, and I'd like to get as much clarity about the install process as possible.

As I understand it.

Place Clips 24" apart along joints.
Install hat channels to clips that run perpendicular to joists.
Screw in drywall to hat channels.

Seems pretty straightforward. SPC seems to say they'll sell just the clips, and I should source the hat channel locally.

 

[Exterous]

As I understand it.

Place Clips 24" apart along joints.
Install hat channels to clips that run perpendicular to joists.
Screw in drywall to hat channels.

Seems pretty straightforward. SPC seems to say they'll sell just the clips, and I should source the hat channel locally.

Thats the way I understand it too. You get 23 pages of incredibly detailed installation instructions and pictures when you place your order that tells you how to deal with all kinds of installation situations like corners, joints and different loading situations (1 2 or 3 layers of drywall). They told me the same thing about buying the hat channel locally and I looked at Lowes and the required hat channel is pretty cheap so I don't think they'd get a lot of sales considering their likely lower volume + shipping costs given the low price locally