Baseball question, about pitchers. . .

[Koenigsegg]

Say it's a 7-6 game, the team that's down is batting and there's runners on 2nd and 3rd. The pitcher is then subbed out, and the new guy comes in and allows a single and both runners score. . .making it 8-7 now. Since they were the previous pitchers runners, the runs are charged to the previous pitcher.

Let's say then that that's the final score of the game, which pitcher gets the loss then? The guy who allowed the base runners, or the one that allowed the hit?

 

[arcenite]

Originally posted by: Koenigsegg
Say it's a 7-6 game, the team that's down is batting and there's runners on 2nd and 3rd. The pitcher is then subbed out, and the new guy comes in and allows a single and both runners score. . .making it 8-7 now. Since they were the previous pitchers runners, the runs are charged to the previous pitcher.

Let's say then that that's the final score of the game, which pitcher gets the loss then? The guy who allowed the base runners, or the one that allowed the hit?

I am not quite sure why but that hurt my brain.

 

[BlueWeasel]

I would think the 2nd pitcher gets the loss, but that's kinda confusing since the 1st pitchers gets charged with both runs.

 

[Train]

I'm pretty sure the loss goes by score, I never heard of runners on base "belonging" to the pitcher that was on the mound when the got on base.

The pitcher who was in the game when they lost the lead gets the loss.

 

[Alkesh]

its runs already scored.

 

[Drakkon]

from the MLB website: http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/offic.../official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp

WINNING AND LOSING PITCHER
10.19
(a) Credit the starting pitcher with a game won only if he has pitched at least five complete innings and his team not only is in the lead when he is replaced but remains in the lead the remainder of the game. (b) The "must pitch five complete innings" rule in respect to the starting pitcher shall be in effect for all games of six or more innings. In a five inning game, credit the starting pitcher with a game won if he has pitched at least four complete innings and his team not only is in the lead when he is replaced but remains in the lead the remainder of the game. (c) When the starting pitcher cannot be credited with the victory because of the provisions of 10.19 (a) or (b) and more than one relief pitcher is used, the victory shall be awarded on the following basis: (1) When, during the tenure of the starting pitcher, the winning team assumes the lead and maintains it to the finish of the game, credit the victory to the relief pitcher judged by the scorer to have been the most effective; (2) Whenever the score is tied the game becomes a new contest insofar as the winning and losing pitcher is concerned; (3) Once the opposing team assumes the lead all pitchers who have pitched up to that point are excluded from being credited with the victory except that if the pitcher against whose pitching the opposing team gained the lead continues to pitch until his team regains the lead, which it holds to the finish of the game, that pitcher shall be the winning pitcher;
(4) The winning relief pitcher shall be the one who is the pitcher of record when his team assumes the lead and maintains it to the finish of the game. EXCEPTION: Do not credit a victory to a relief pitcher who is ineffective in a brief appearance, when a succeeding relief pitcher pitches effectively in helping his team maintain the lead. In such cases, credit the succeeding relief pitcher with the victory. (d) When a pitcher is removed for a substitute batter or substitute runner, all runs scored by his team during the inning in which he is removed shall be credited to his benefit in determining the pitcher of record when his team assumes the lead. (e) Regardless of how many innings the first pitcher has pitched, he shall be charged with the loss of the game if he is replaced when his team is behind in the score, or falls behind because of runs charged to him after he is replaced, and his team thereafter fails either to tie the score or gain the lead. (f) No pitcher shall be credited with pitching a shutout unless he pitches the complete game, or unless he enters the game with none out before the opposing team has scored in the first inning, puts out the side without a run scoring and pitches all the rest of the game. When two or more pitchers combine to pitch a shutout a notation to that effect should be included in the league's official pitching records. (g) In some non championship games (such as the Major League All Star Game) it is provided in advance that each pitcher shall work a stated number of innings, usually two or three. In such games, it is customary to credit the victory to the pitcher of record, whether starter or reliever, when the winning team takes a lead which it maintains to the end of the game, unless such pitcher is knocked out after the winning team has a commanding lead, and the scorer believes a subsequent pitcher is entitled to credit for the victory.

 

[iwantanewcomputer]

Originally posted by: Train
I'm pretty sure the loss goes by score, I never heard of runners on base "belonging" to the pitcher that was on the mound when the got on base.

The pitcher who was in the game when they lost the lead gets the loss.

wrong

 

[GasX]

bolded for clarity:

Originally posted by: Drakkon
from the MLB website: http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/offic.../official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp

WINNING AND LOSING PITCHER
10.19
(a) Credit the starting pitcher with a game won only if he has pitched at least five complete innings and his team not only is in the lead when he is replaced but remains in the lead the remainder of the game. (b) The "must pitch five complete innings" rule in respect to the starting pitcher shall be in effect for all games of six or more innings. In a five inning game, credit the starting pitcher with a game won if he has pitched at least four complete innings and his team not only is in the lead when he is replaced but remains in the lead the remainder of the game. (c) When the starting pitcher cannot be credited with the victory because of the provisions of 10.19 (a) or (b) and more than one relief pitcher is used, the victory shall be awarded on the following basis: (1) When, during the tenure of the starting pitcher, the winning team assumes the lead and maintains it to the finish of the game, credit the victory to the relief pitcher judged by the scorer to have been the most effective; (2) Whenever the score is tied the game becomes a new contest insofar as the winning and losing pitcher is concerned; (3) Once the opposing team assumes the lead all pitchers who have pitched up to that point are excluded from being credited with the victory except that if the pitcher against whose pitching the opposing team gained the lead continues to pitch until his team regains the lead, which it holds to the finish of the game, that pitcher shall be the winning pitcher;
(4) The winning relief pitcher shall be the one who is the pitcher of record when his team assumes the lead and maintains it to the finish of the game. EXCEPTION: Do not credit a victory to a relief pitcher who is ineffective in a brief appearance, when a succeeding relief pitcher pitches effectively in helping his team maintain the lead. In such cases, credit the succeeding relief pitcher with the victory. (d) When a pitcher is removed for a substitute batter or substitute runner, all runs scored by his team during the inning in which he is removed shall be credited to his benefit in determining the pitcher of record when his team assumes the lead. (e) Regardless of how many innings the first pitcher has pitched, he shall be charged with the loss of the game if he is replaced when his team is behind in the score, or falls behind because of runs charged to him after he is replaced, and his team thereafter fails either to tie the score or gain the lead. (f) No pitcher shall be credited with pitching a shutout unless he pitches the complete game, or unless he enters the game with none out before the opposing team has scored in the first inning, puts out the side without a run scoring and pitches all the rest of the game. When two or more pitchers combine to pitch a shutout a notation to that effect should be included in the league's official pitching records. (g) In some non championship games (such as the Major League All Star Game) it is provided in advance that each pitcher shall work a stated number of innings, usually two or three. In such games, it is customary to credit the victory to the pitcher of record, whether starter or reliever, when the winning team takes a lead which it maintains to the end of the game, unless such pitcher is knocked out after the winning team has a commanding lead, and the scorer believes a subsequent pitcher is entitled to credit for the victory.

The first picther gets the runs charged to him and the loss.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Whomever was the pitcher that allowed the winning run (runner) to reach first base,
regardless of what subsequent pitchers do.

 

[Koenigsegg]

Originally posted by: arcenite

Originally posted by: Koenigsegg
Say it's a 7-6 game, the team that's down is batting and there's runners on 2nd and 3rd. The pitcher is then subbed out, and the new guy comes in and allows a single and both runners score. . .making it 8-7 now. Since they were the previous pitchers runners, the runs are charged to the previous pitcher.

Let's say then that that's the final score of the game, which pitcher gets the loss then? The guy who allowed the base runners, or the one that allowed the hit?

I am not quite sure why but that hurt my brain.

If that hurt your head try reading the post below 😛

 

[Koenigsegg]

Originally posted by: Mwilding
bolded for clarity:

Originally posted by: Drakkon
from the MLB website: http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/offic.../official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp

WINNING AND LOSING PITCHER
10.19
(a) Credit the starting pitcher with a game won only if he has pitched at least five complete innings and his team not only is in the lead when he is replaced but remains in the lead the remainder of the game. (b) The "must pitch five complete innings" rule in respect to the starting pitcher shall be in effect for all games of six or more innings. In a five inning game, credit the starting pitcher with a game won if he has pitched at least four complete innings and his team not only is in the lead when he is replaced but remains in the lead the remainder of the game. (c) When the starting pitcher cannot be credited with the victory because of the provisions of 10.19 (a) or (b) and more than one relief pitcher is used, the victory shall be awarded on the following basis: (1) When, during the tenure of the starting pitcher, the winning team assumes the lead and maintains it to the finish of the game, credit the victory to the relief pitcher judged by the scorer to have been the most effective; (2) Whenever the score is tied the game becomes a new contest insofar as the winning and losing pitcher is concerned; (3) Once the opposing team assumes the lead all pitchers who have pitched up to that point are excluded from being credited with the victory except that if the pitcher against whose pitching the opposing team gained the lead continues to pitch until his team regains the lead, which it holds to the finish of the game, that pitcher shall be the winning pitcher;
(4) The winning relief pitcher shall be the one who is the pitcher of record when his team assumes the lead and maintains it to the finish of the game. EXCEPTION: Do not credit a victory to a relief pitcher who is ineffective in a brief appearance, when a succeeding relief pitcher pitches effectively in helping his team maintain the lead. In such cases, credit the succeeding relief pitcher with the victory. (d) When a pitcher is removed for a substitute batter or substitute runner, all runs scored by his team during the inning in which he is removed shall be credited to his benefit in determining the pitcher of record when his team assumes the lead. (e) Regardless of how many innings the first pitcher has pitched, he shall be charged with the loss of the game if he is replaced when his team is behind in the score, or falls behind because of runs charged to him after he is replaced, and his team thereafter fails either to tie the score or gain the lead. (f) No pitcher shall be credited with pitching a shutout unless he pitches the complete game, or unless he enters the game with none out before the opposing team has scored in the first inning, puts out the side without a run scoring and pitches all the rest of the game. When two or more pitchers combine to pitch a shutout a notation to that effect should be included in the league's official pitching records. (g) In some non championship games (such as the Major League All Star Game) it is provided in advance that each pitcher shall work a stated number of innings, usually two or three. In such games, it is customary to credit the victory to the pitcher of record, whether starter or reliever, when the winning team takes a lead which it maintains to the end of the game, unless such pitcher is knocked out after the winning team has a commanding lead, and the scorer believes a subsequent pitcher is entitled to credit for the victory.

The first picther gets the runs charged to him and the loss.

Thanks for bolding that, my brain was about to explode.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Originally posted by: Train
I'm pretty sure the loss goes by score, I never heard of runners on base "belonging" to the pitcher that was on the mound when the got on base.

The pitcher who was in the game when they lost the lead gets the loss.

Stay out of threads you don't understand. The pitcher responsible for the runner who scored the winning run gets the loss. The first pitcher who put those guys on base gets the loss.

 

[Koenigsegg]

(f) No pitcher shall be credited with pitching a shutout unless he pitches the complete game, or unless he enters the game with none out before the opposing team has scored in the first inning, puts out the side without a run scoring and pitches all the rest of the game. When two or more pitchers combine to pitch a shutout a notation to that effect should be included in the league's official pitching records.

To all the real baseball buffs out there, didn't someone once relieve Babe Ruth when he was tossed and end up pitching a perfect game or something? Was it credited a perfect game, or would it be a nohitter perfect game if there were no outs? The rule only states that it's called a shutout, what about the other two?

Edit: http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/ballplayers/R/Ruth_Babe.stm

Here's what I was referring to:

The same Ruth who would happily spend hours of free time with needy children was ejected for swinging at an umpire who called ball four on the first batter the young pitcher faced in a June 23, 1917 game. Red Sox teammate Ernie Shore relieved Ruth, the runner Ruth had walked was caught attempting to steal, and Shore retired the next 26 batters to earn credit for a perfect game. As for Ruth's legendary carousing, roommate Ping Brodie quipped, "I don't room with him. I room with his suitcase."

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: Koenigsegg

(f) No pitcher shall be credited with pitching a shutout unless he pitches the complete game, or unless he enters the game with none out before the opposing team has scored in the first inning, puts out the side without a run scoring and pitches all the rest of the game. When two or more pitchers combine to pitch a shutout a notation to that effect should be included in the league's official pitching records.

To all the real baseball buffs out there, didn't someone once relieve Babe Ruth when he was tossed and end up pitching a perfect game or something? Was it credited a perfect game, or would it be a nohitter perfect game if there were no outs? The rule only states that it's called a shutout, what about the other two?

Well a perfect game is 27 outs with no base runners so that is out of the question unless he relieved the starter before the 1st at bat was over...

edit: you clarification does muddy the issue a bit... hmmm

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Originally posted by: Koenigsegg

(f) No pitcher shall be credited with pitching a shutout unless he pitches the complete game, or unless he enters the game with none out before the opposing team has scored in the first inning, puts out the side without a run scoring and pitches all the rest of the game. When two or more pitchers combine to pitch a shutout a notation to that effect should be included in the league's official pitching records.

To all the real baseball buffs out there, didn't someone once relieve Babe Ruth when he was tossed and end up pitching a perfect game or something? Was it credited a perfect game, or would it be a nohitter perfect game if there were no outs? The rule only states that it's called a shutout, what about the other two?

Not a perfect game. Babe walked the first guy, argued and got tossed. His relief pitcher picked the guy off base and retired the next 26 batters. It's a combined no-hitter, but it doesn't count as a perfect game since a batter reached base.

 

[Toasthead]

yeah the runs would be charged to the first pitcher and he would get the loss

 

[Yossarian]

if you think the situation in the OP is confusing, try figuring out earned/unearned runs when there are guys on base, pitching substitutions, and errors involved. you get into situations where the team is charged with an unearned run but the pitcher gets an earned run instead.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: Train
I'm pretty sure the loss goes by score, I never heard of runners on base "belonging" to the pitcher that was on the mound when the got on base.

The pitcher who was in the game when they lost the lead gets the loss.

Stay out of threads you don't understand. The pitcher responsible for the runner who scored the winning run gets the loss. The first pitcher who put those guys on base gets the loss.

Wow you guys are all fvcking geniuses after someone cuts and pastes the rule. I could have googled it too.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Originally posted by: Yossarian
if you think the situation in the OP is confusing, try figuring out earned/unearned runs when there are guys on base, pitching substitutions, and errors involved. you get into situations where the team is charged with an unearned run but the pitcher gets an earned run instead.

WTF language was that? A team charged with an unearned run but the pitcher gets an earned run? I want some of whatever you're smoking, that situation doesn't exist.

Calculating earned runs is pretty simple. Whoever put the guy on base is responsible for him if he scores. Period. If he got on be error he's not an earned run. If he scored because of an error it's not an earned run. If the inning is extended by an error that should have ended it all subsequent runs are unearned. If a guy reaches on a single and takes 2nd on an error, then the next guy homers both runs are earned because the error didn't impact anything.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: Train
I'm pretty sure the loss goes by score, I never heard of runners on base "belonging" to the pitcher that was on the mound when the got on base.

The pitcher who was in the game when they lost the lead gets the loss.

Stay out of threads you don't understand. The pitcher responsible for the runner who scored the winning run gets the loss. The first pitcher who put those guys on base gets the loss.

Wow you guys are all fvcking geniuses after someone cuts and pastes the rule. I could have googled it too.

Maybe you should have, then you would have learned something. It's not your fault that you're clueless, but it is your fault that you post about things you can't comprehend. Spend more time learning and less time posting, then next time you won't look as dumb.

 

[Koenigsegg]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: Yossarian
if you think the situation in the OP is confusing, try figuring out earned/unearned runs when there are guys on base, pitching substitutions, and errors involved. you get into situations where the team is charged with an unearned run but the pitcher gets an earned run instead.

WTF language was that? A team charged with an unearned run but the pitcher gets an earned run? I want some of whatever you're smoking, that situation doesn't exist.

Calculating earned runs is pretty simple. Whoever put the guy on base is responsible for him if he scores. Period. If he got on be error he's not an earned run. If he scored because of an error it's not an earned run. If the inning is extended by an error that should have ended it all subsequent runs are unearned. If a guy reaches on a single and takes 2nd on an error, then the next guy homers both runs are earned.

No it's not. There are times when it's very arguable and is just left to the discretion of the scorer. Take your elitist attitude and long e-penis elsewhere please.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Originally posted by: Koenigsegg

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: Yossarian
if you think the situation in the OP is confusing, try figuring out earned/unearned runs when there are guys on base, pitching substitutions, and errors involved. you get into situations where the team is charged with an unearned run but the pitcher gets an earned run instead.

WTF language was that? A team charged with an unearned run but the pitcher gets an earned run? I want some of whatever you're smoking, that situation doesn't exist.

Calculating earned runs is pretty simple. Whoever put the guy on base is responsible for him if he scores. Period. If he got on be error he's not an earned run. If he scored because of an error it's not an earned run. If the inning is extended by an error that should have ended it all subsequent runs are unearned. If a guy reaches on a single and takes 2nd on an error, then the next guy homers both runs are earned.

No it's not. There are times when it's very arguable and is just left to the discretion of the scorer. Take your elitist attitude and long e-penis elsewhere please.

Don't be a dumb ass all your life. Yeah, the distinction between a hit and an error is up to the discretion of the official scorer. Once that call is made everything else is etched in stone. If a play is called a hit one set of circumstances is in effect, it it's an error the other set of circumstances takes over. After the original H/E call is made the official scorer is completely out of the loop. The runs are then either earned or unearned. The official scorer has no discretion to say "yeah, error, but the run was earned" or "hit, but unearned."

It's amazing how pathetic some ATOTers are that they can talk crap about things they don't understand, get the ass-kicked they so richly deserve and then chalk it up to an "elitist attitude". Here's a piece of advice to help you get through life: It's not somebody elses fault that you're dumb and it's not their fault when they call you on your lies and misconceptions. Take the time to educate yourself before spewing forth instead of whining about it afterward.

 

[Koenigsegg]

:laugh:

This thread reminds me of P&N for some reason, hmm. . .

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Koenigsegg

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: Yossarian
if you think the situation in the OP is confusing, try figuring out earned/unearned runs when there are guys on base, pitching substitutions, and errors involved. you get into situations where the team is charged with an unearned run but the pitcher gets an earned run instead.

WTF language was that? A team charged with an unearned run but the pitcher gets an earned run? I want some of whatever you're smoking, that situation doesn't exist.

Calculating earned runs is pretty simple. Whoever put the guy on base is responsible for him if he scores. Period. If he got on be error he's not an earned run. If he scored because of an error it's not an earned run. If the inning is extended by an error that should have ended it all subsequent runs are unearned. If a guy reaches on a single and takes 2nd on an error, then the next guy homers both runs are earned.

No it's not. There are times when it's very arguable and is just left to the discretion of the scorer. Take your elitist attitude and long e-penis elsewhere please.

I think you two are talking about two different things, you're talking about the complications of what constitutes an error and how the official scorer actually calls it (hence "arguable"). Whereas the poster above you is referring to a situation where an error has already been established.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: Train
I'm pretty sure the loss goes by score, I never heard of runners on base "belonging" to the pitcher that was on the mound when the got on base.

The pitcher who was in the game when they lost the lead gets the loss.

Stay out of threads you don't understand. The pitcher responsible for the runner who scored the winning run gets the loss. The first pitcher who put those guys on base gets the loss.

Wow you guys are all fvcking geniuses after someone cuts and pastes the rule. I could have googled it too.

Maybe you should have, then you would have learned something. It's not your fault that you're clueless, but it is your fault that you post about things you can't comprehend. Spend more time learning and less time posting, then next time you won't look as dumb.

since when do people have to be experts on something to post in ATOT?

I'll get a clue when you get a life.