Baseball Fans: Pedro Martinez HOFer?

[PlatinumGold]

First ballot HOFer?

the only knock against pedro is his durability. he does have a tendency to get injured. but the games i've seen him pitch, he is LIGHTS out. i haven't seen ANYONE in my lifetime come close to Pedro. not maddux, not clemons, not R. Johnson or even any of the young pitchers like Wood, Prior or Hudson.

So here is the question with the Red Sox, he is 101 wins to 28 loses over about 6 seasons. is that DOMINANT enough to warrant him a spot in the HOF? or does he have to pitch a few more good seasons?

Maddux and Clemons are OBVIOUS first ballot HOFers, Glavine is a HOFer but probably not first ballot. Johnson probably but not first ballot in my opinion. Pettite will probably be there, Mussina has a shot.

 

[Lager]

YES!!! HOF SHOE IN!! WHAT KIND OF DUMB QUESTION IS THIS!!

 

[Francodman]

randy johnson not a first ballot HOFer? The guy won 4 straight Cy youngs man, he's first ballot no question. Pedro will also be first ballot.

 

[Ynog]

Cooperstown is all about durability.

Unlike any other sport.

He needs to go a few more seasons to be a first ballot HOF. However he is good enough to do it.
I think he needs 200 wins to be a guarenteed first ballot HOF.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: lager
YES!!! HOF SHOE IN!! WHAT KIND OF DUMB QUESTION IS THIS!!

hey, compare pedro to sandy koufax. i never saw koufax pitch, but season after season of 300+ innings pitched. 20 to 30 complete games per season.

in light of Koufax, pedro looks a little light in the number of sheer innings pitched. some people stress longevity, for example, David Cone, in his prime and mb 3 or 4 seasons, i thought he was better than either glavine OR even Maddux, but both will make it to the hof before cone because he didn't have longevity. Gooden, best pitcher of his era for 3 or 4 years, is he a HOFer? or was his career cut too short.

pedro is unique because he could have been classed as those other two, but he was SOOO Much more dominant during his peak years.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Ynog
Cooperstown is all about durability.

Unlike any other sport.

He needs to go a few more seasons to be a first ballot HOF. However he is good enough to do it.
I think he needs 200 wins to be a guarenteed first ballot HOF.

normally, i'd agree, i just think pedro is the exception because of his complete dominance. again, comparing him to gooden or cone, both EXCEPTIONALLY good pitchers or even a more current example, Schilling, Dominant but not dominant enough and not enough years of dominance to warrant HOF status in my opinion.

 

[Lager]

Those were different times!!! We don't pay closers $8 million dollars to sit on there ass!!!

Pedro doesn't have to pitch a complete game because there are overrated closers taking those away from him!

Pedro is the best pitcher in the 90's era, at least in the American leagues.

If Pedro doesn't get into HOF first ballot, neither should Roger Clemens (WTF does he want to go into HOF as a YANKEE?!?!?!).

 

[cliftonite]

Im a Yankee fan and Ill admit that Pedro deserves to be in the HOF.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Francodman
randy johnson not a first ballot HOFer? The guy won 4 straight Cy youngs man, he's first ballot no question. Pedro will also be first ballot.

Randy is an interesting case, VERY VERY dominant, won't have the longevity of a glavine or maddux.

so who would you take first Johnson or Glavine, for a one game if my life was on the line, Johnson, for HOF?? not as clear cut if you look at past decisions.

but ya your probably right, johnson is 1st ballot HOFer, i just remember the stigma surrounding Johnson when he was with seattle and that he couldn't win the big game. obviously he proved that wrong in arizona, but still the stigma lingers in my mind.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: lager
Those were different times!!! We don't pay closers $8 million dollars to sit on there ass!!!

Pedro doesn't have to pitch a complete game because there are overrated closers taking those away from him!

Pedro is the best pitcher in the 90's era, at least in the American leagues.

If Pedro doesn't get into HOF first ballot, neither should Roger Clemens (WTF does he want to go into HOF as a YANKEE?!?!?!).

clemens vs pedro, one has NOTHING to do with the other except to red sox fans.

clemens is a 1st ballot hofer because he was VERY VERY good for a VERY VERY long time. maybe the last pitcher ever to win 300 games. Maddux and glavine have outside shots at it, in glavines case almost impossible since he left the braves.

 

[gopunk]

i just hope edgar martinez makes it in... even tho he probably won't

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: gopunk
i just hope edgar martinez makes it in... even tho he probably won't

palmero and frank thomas come to mind as players that should make it in before martinez. at least they played a position for a lot longer.

 

[Lager]

Don't let talent and pure dominant discourage you from thinking Pedro is not a HOF. Ozzie Smith made it to the HOF with a sub .290 batting average. Pedro spectacular, he would be winning 24 games a year if it wasn't for the bullpen blowing his game.

 

[Ynog]

I am not saying I don't think Pedro will be a HOF, or that he will be a first ballot HOF. I am just saying he has only been a starter for 10 years.

And with so many players now, its not easy to be a hof. I mean Jim Rice should be and isn't a HOF.
I am a Red Sox fan, and think Pedro will be a HOF. He was robbed of an MVP in 99, I just think to guarentee himself
a spot as a FIRST Ballot guy, he needs a few more seasons to squash critiques from saying he doesn't have enough
IP, or Wins.

Halladay will most likely be the Cy Young this year. But you ask any player who he would want to face, Halladay or Pedro,
There won't be a single guy that says Pedro.

 

[Ynog]

Originally posted by: gopunk
i just hope edgar martinez makes it in... even tho he probably won't

If Jim Rice never makes it in the HOF, then I better never see Edgar make it. Because everyone complains about Rices
years as a DH. And Edgar has spent years as a DH.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: gopunk
i just hope edgar martinez makes it in... even tho he probably won't

palmero and frank thomas come to mind as players that should make it in before martinez. at least they played a position for a lot longer.

perhaps, but edgar's a better hitter than either one... i dunno i admire his quiet nature and work ethic... i can't think of a more positive role model in baseball.

 

[Ynog]

By the way, I don't want to point this out. There is a large difference between a HOF, and First Ballot HOF.

Ozzie made it more for the glove then for his hitting.

 

[PoPPeR]

Andy Pettite? HOF!?!?!? Glavine isn't even assured a spot, how the hell can Pettite be considered. There are different "levels" of baseballs HOF. There's never been a unanimous decision, not Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Joe D, Gehrig, Koufax, nadda. First ballot, in today's terms, is Clemens, Maddux, Bonds, and A-Rod (most likely). Then there are cases like Johnson, Glavine, Mussina, Biggio, Bagwell, Palmeiro, that is debatable whether or not they belong, but most likely will get in. To me, Pedro fits in the Johnson/Glavine group, he simply didn't dominate long enough to be considered with Maddux and Clemens. His dominating seasons were amazing, but unless your a BoSox fan, most people just think he's injured all the time and don't even remember the last time he pitched.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: gopunk
i just hope edgar martinez makes it in... even tho he probably won't

palmero and frank thomas come to mind as players that should make it in before martinez. at least they played a position for a lot longer.

perhaps, but edgar's a better hitter than either one... i dunno i admire his quiet nature and work ethic... i can't think of a more positive role model in baseball.

look at the stats again. thomas beats edgar in every stat practically, palmeiro however doesnt.

thomas is a very underrated player right now.
G ...AB ..R ..H ..2B ..3B ..HR ..RBI ..BB ..SO ..SB ..CS ..BA ..OBP ...SLG ..OPS
a. 1846 6596 1250 2042 425 11 417 1387 1382 1075 32 21 .310 .428 .567 .995
b. 1909 6706 1172 2116 491 15 297 1198 1223 1092 48 29 .316 .423 .526 .950
c. 2562 9532 1545 2774 542 38 527 1680 1223 1242 93 39 .291 .373 .522 .894

guess which is which, i'll post it in a few.

 

[Lager]

WTF? Pedro's been dominating as long as Maddux has! Look at Maddux's ERA this year. His stuff is not as good as it use to be, so should he not make first ballot because the drop in dominating status?

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: lager

Don't let talent and pure dominant discourage you from thinking Pedro is not a HOF. Ozzie Smith made it to the HOF with a sub .290 batting average. Pedro spectacular, he would be winning 24 games a year if it wasn't for the bullpen blowing his game.

no one is letting talent discourage anyone. it's pedros talent that even makes this a discussion. anyone less than pedro does not deserve this type of HOF consideration after only 10 years. Randy johnson on his first 10 years in the league alone WOULD NOT have made the HOF, same is true for maddux and mb clemens.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: lager
WTF? Pedro's been dominating as long as Maddux has! Look at Maddux's ERA this year. His stuff is not as good as it use to be, so should he not make first ballot because the drop in dominating status?

maddux will get in on his Cy Youngs and # of wins, he's very very close to 300. a very important stat to a lot of HOF voters.

 

[SammyBoy]

Pedro will be a first ballot hall of famer by the time he calls it quits. He's not quitting for a little while, he loves us sox fans too much!

 

[Ynog]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: lager

Don't let talent and pure dominant discourage you from thinking Pedro is not a HOF. Ozzie Smith made it to the HOF with a sub .290 batting average. Pedro spectacular, he would be winning 24 games a year if it wasn't for the bullpen blowing his game.

no one is letting talent discourage anyone. it's pedros talent that even makes this a discussion. anyone less than pedro does not deserve this type of HOF consideration after only 10 years. Randy johnson on his first 10 years in the league alone WOULD NOT have made the HOF, same is true for maddux and mb clemens.

Same is not true for Maddux and Clemens.

Clemens was nasty early in his career. Look at his stats.
Maddux as well. 16 seasons with 15 or more wins.

There is more to dominant pitching than strike outs. Are they as dominant as Pedro. I would argue a young clemens is. However their dominance
cannot be questioned.

 

[Ynog]

Originally posted by: SammyBoy
Pedro will be a first ballot hall of famer by the time he calls it quits. He's not quitting for a little while, he loves us sox fans too much!

Most of the time he loves us. But I agree, he isn't quitting soon which is why this point is mute.