Baseball Fans, No way ANYONE could have imagined that the Mets would be THIS BAD.

[PlatinumGold]

OMG

I'm a braves fan so i'm really enjoying the struggles of the NY Mets, but Honestly could any of you have predicted this type of a season for the mets this year???

 

[Stark]

the angels are good. that right there should have been a warning that things are not right in baseball.

 

[Chadder007]

Nope....they are last place aren't they?

 

[Electric Amish]

The Mets may be having a rough season, but I'd take them over the Braves any day of the week.

amish

 

[Passner]

Before the season, I told many that I felt the Mets would be within 4 games of .500 (above or below), because the team was not as significant an upgrade over the 2001 team as many belived, and that team should have been well below .500 based on their runs scored and runs allowed.

 

[spanky]

the mets really stink this year.

 

[mpitts]

They stink and their payroll is at what? $110 million?

Cedeno - Stiff
Vaughn - Stiff
Alomar - stinking
Pitching - terrible

 

[PlatinumGold]

Passner

I'd have to say you were lucky in ur guess.

If Burnitz, alomar and Vaughn are anywhere CLOSE to their lifetime averages, the mets would have won at least 10 to 12 more games so far this season. AT LEAST.

no one for the mets is having an exceptionally or even marginally good year and 2 HOFers and 1 potential HOFer are having HORRIBLE Offensive seasons.

 

[MrDingleDangle]

i was worried a little about pitching before the season but that hasnt been that bad...

i cant believe we have lost 10 in a row...2 and half weeks ago we were 3.5 games out of the wild card...we are now 13.5

its ridiculus...

who would have thought that burnitz would be so horrid and alomar has been having a dreadful season...and piazza hasnt done as well as he normally does...

 

[MrDingleDangle]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Passner

I'd have to say you were lucky in ur guess.

If Burnitz, alomar and Vaughn are anywhere CLOSE to their lifetime averages, the mets would have won at least 10 to 12 more games so far this season. AT LEAST.

no one for the mets is having an exceptionally or even marginally good year and 2 HOFers and 1 potential HOFer are having HORRIBLE Offensive seasons.

just wondering who your potential HOFer is? i assume the 2 HOFers are Alomar and Piazza.

 

[PlatinumGold]

actually, i was thinking of vaughn, in my mind he is a HOFer. not a shoe in, but you can't lock him out. piazza and alomar i'd say are SHOE ins to get in the hof. they both could retire today and still make it to the hall.

vaughn would need another 2 or 3 good seasons in my mind.

burnitz is the potential hofer i was thinking of. when he's good he's very good.

 

[GasX]

I ALWAYS imagine the Mets having seasons like this. It is one of the things that makes being a Phillies fan so GREAT!



btw, Mike Piazza is gay

 

[MrDingleDangle]

no one could say they predicted this

Errors- 114
HR's - 112

who would have thought

1B - 16 errors
2B- 9 errors
3B- 20 errors
SS- 21 errors!!! (16 by ordonez!)
OF- 21
C- 12

 

[GasX]

Did you hear Ordonez almost got hit by a bus yesterday?















Fortunately for him, it went through his legs!

 

[Stark]

actually, i was thinking of vaughn, in my mind he is a HOFer.

bwahahahaha...

him being in NY is one of the reasons the Angels are good this year.

 

[goog40]

Vaughn - Stiff

Haha, yeah that was pretty obvious before this season ever started. Just putting up numbers!= team leader


[a]bwahahahaha...

him being in NY is one of the reasons the Angels are good this year.
[/quote]

Tell me about it. They essentially got Appier, Sele, and re-signed Percival for getting rid of Vaughn. And it allowed Scott Spiezio to play everyday at 1B, where he's improved to one of the top defensive first basemen, leading the league in fielding %.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Before the season, I told many that I felt the Mets would be within 4 games of .500 (above or below), because the team was not as significant an upgrade over the 2001 team as many belived, and that team should have been well below .500 based on their runs scored and runs allowed.

Passner. also, the mets are 10 under .500 w/ no guarantees that they will finish out the season playing .500 ball. i'd be very surprised if they got to w/in 4 games of .500.

 

[Passner]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Passner

I'd have to say you were lucky in ur guess.

If Burnitz, alomar and Vaughn are anywhere CLOSE to their lifetime averages, the mets would have won at least 10 to 12 more games so far this season. AT LEAST.

no one for the mets is having an exceptionally or even marginally good year and 2 HOFers and 1 potential HOFer are having HORRIBLE Offensive seasons.

I could have told you that Vaughn was gonna stink. Take a guy who was merely average for a first baseman in his last full season, give him an entire year on the DL, and add another 25 pounds of fat, and you aren't looking at a guy likely to return to his 97-98 form.

Also, Burnitz is the protype of the player who drops of a career cliff at 33 or 34. Players who are reasonably low average, high K, high BB, high HR players, often see their production plummet when they reach the age where maybe their bat speed drops, or a hitch develops. It has happened to many a player, but I never thought Burnitz would drop this much. My guess was a loss of 60-90 OPS points which would make him a league average to slightly above average outfielder.

Alomar, I will admit I never predicted a major drop off in offensive numbers. I felt that his '01 was likely a bit better than he should ahve been given his age, and that some offensive decline was natural, but the extent of the decline totally shocked me. On the other hand, I knew his D would be fairly bad. I also knew that Vaughn (no surprise) Burnitz (none either) and Cedeno (definately no surprise) would also be terrible. Alomar has long been overrated for his glove, as his unexceptional range and sabermetric fielding numbers indicate. Ordonez also is overrated on d, he hasn't been gold glove caliber since 1999, and his dropoff has been dramatic. The fact is the Mets D has been terrible, and when you are a fairly low K pitching staff, you need a good defense behind you. This was a collection of average to pathetic range fielders (errors be damned,) and that is a recipe for disaster, especially when your bats aren't as good as everyone thinks they are.

 

[Passner]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Before the season, I told many that I felt the Mets would be within 4 games of .500 (above or below), because the team was not as significant an upgrade over the 2001 team as many belived, and that team should have been well below .500 based on their runs scored and runs allowed.

Passner. also, the mets are 10 under .500 w/ no guarantees that they will finish out the season playing .500 ball. i'd be very surprised if they got to w/in 4 games of .500.

I meant 4 full games, as in, anywhere from 77 to 85 wins.

 

[ATLien247]

Originally posted by: Electric Amish
The Mets may be having a rough season, but I'd take them over the Braves any day of the week.

amish

Them's fightin' words...

 

[rufruf44]

Originally posted by: ATLien247

Originally posted by: Electric Amish
The Mets may be having a rough season, but I'd take them over the Braves any day of the week.

amish

Them's fightin' words...

Which makes it much sweeter as the Braves wrap up another division title while Mets fan are stuck in anger/despair/grumbling mode

 

[PlatinumGold]

I could have told you that Vaughn was gonna stink. Take a guy who was merely average for a first baseman in his last full season, give him an entire year on the DL, and add another 25 pounds of fat, and you aren't looking at a guy likely to return to his 97-98 form.

Also, Burnitz is the protype of the player who drops of a career cliff at 33 or 34. Players who are reasonably low average, high K, high BB, high HR players, often see their production plummet when they reach the age where maybe their bat speed drops, or a hitch develops. It has happened to many a player, but I never thought Burnitz would drop this much. My guess was a loss of 60-90 OPS points which would make him a league average to slightly above average outfielder.

Alomar, I will admit I never predicted a major drop off in offensive numbers. I felt that his '01 was likely a bit better than he should ahve been given his age, and that some offensive decline was natural, but the extent of the decline totally shocked me. On the other hand, I knew his D would be fairly bad. I also knew that Vaughn (no surprise) Burnitz (none either) and Cedeno (definately no surprise) would also be terrible. Alomar has long been overrated for his glove, as his unexceptional range and sabermetric fielding numbers indicate. Ordonez also is overrated on d, he hasn't been gold glove caliber since 1999, and his dropoff has been dramatic. The fact is the Mets D has been terrible, and when you are a fairly low K pitching staff, you need a good defense behind you. This was a collection of average to pathetic range fielders (errors be damned,) and that is a recipe for disaster, especially when your bats aren't as good as everyone thinks they are.

All that looks and sounds fine, BUT, if the mets had hit at the beginning of the season like they did during the 1 month after the all star break, they'd be at or above .500 right now. If they had pitched as well during the second half of this season like they did the first half, once again they would be at or above .500.

truth is, what happened to them was beyond most peoples predictions. as i said earlier, if you predicted these numbers for the mets then you beat out most of the experts.

 

[Passner]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

I could have told you that Vaughn was gonna stink. Take a guy who was merely average for a first baseman in his last full season, give him an entire year on the DL, and add another 25 pounds of fat, and you aren't looking at a guy likely to return to his 97-98 form.

Also, Burnitz is the protype of the player who drops of a career cliff at 33 or 34. Players who are reasonably low average, high K, high BB, high HR players, often see their production plummet when they reach the age where maybe their bat speed drops, or a hitch develops. It has happened to many a player, but I never thought Burnitz would drop this much. My guess was a loss of 60-90 OPS points which would make him a league average to slightly above average outfielder.

Alomar, I will admit I never predicted a major drop off in offensive numbers. I felt that his '01 was likely a bit better than he should ahve been given his age, and that some offensive decline was natural, but the extent of the decline totally shocked me. On the other hand, I knew his D would be fairly bad. I also knew that Vaughn (no surprise) Burnitz (none either) and Cedeno (definately no surprise) would also be terrible. Alomar has long been overrated for his glove, as his unexceptional range and sabermetric fielding numbers indicate. Ordonez also is overrated on d, he hasn't been gold glove caliber since 1999, and his dropoff has been dramatic. The fact is the Mets D has been terrible, and when you are a fairly low K pitching staff, you need a good defense behind you. This was a collection of average to pathetic range fielders (errors be damned,) and that is a recipe for disaster, especially when your bats aren't as good as everyone thinks they are.

All that looks and sounds fine, BUT, if the mets had hit at the beginning of the season like they did during the 1 month after the all star break, they'd be at or above .500 right now. If they had pitched as well during the second half of this season like they did the first half, once again they would be at or above .500.

truth is, what happened to them was beyond most peoples predictions. as i said earlier, if you predicted these numbers for the mets then you beat out most of the experts.

I think many experts, at least some of the ones I was reading pre-season, saw the NL east as wide open, and didn't see any givens, except that no team would exceed 90 wins, and that the Expos would finish last. I know Baseball Prospectus wasn't that big on the Mets, although they felt the team was a bit improved, which is a point I agree with, but that is because I view 2001's team as a 72-73 team, because that is what they should have been based on their runs scored and allowed.

 

[PlatinumGold]

I think many experts, at least some of the ones I was reading pre-season, saw the NL east as wide open, and didn't see any givens, except that no team would exceed 90 wins, and that the Expos would finish last. I know Baseball Prospectus wasn't that big on the Mets, although they felt the team was a bit improved, which is a point I agree with, but that is because I view 2001's team as a 72-73 team, because that is what they should have been based on their runs scored and allowed.

In my opinion, both the Braves and the Mets totally blew away the expectations of the experts. do you honestly thing the braves will only win 9 more games rest of this season?? i'd be very surprised if the braves didn't win 100+ this season. i'd say 110 is within their reach, even tho they've hit the roughest week since like what mid may?

 

[Passner]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

I think many experts, at least some of the ones I was reading pre-season, saw the NL east as wide open, and didn't see any givens, except that no team would exceed 90 wins, and that the Expos would finish last. I know Baseball Prospectus wasn't that big on the Mets, although they felt the team was a bit improved, which is a point I agree with, but that is because I view 2001's team as a 72-73 team, because that is what they should have been based on their runs scored and allowed.

In my opinion, both the Braves and the Mets totally blew away the expectations of the experts. do you honestly thing the braves will only win 9 more games rest of this season?? i'd be very surprised if the braves didn't win 100+ this season. i'd say 110 is within their reach, even tho they've hit the roughest week since like what mid may?

I will be the first to admit that I totally underestimated the Braves. I thought getting Sheff was a great pickup, but I thought this may be the year that the Braves either don't make the playoffs, or just barely make it with the worst record of any NL playoff team. There pen has been phenomenal, and their pitching and D, actually improved from last year, and there offense looks pretty decent for a year that is fairly skewed towards pitchers. I personally want to see the Dodgers take the NL, but its not very likely.