Barr brings back the Federal Death Penalty after 2 decades of stayed executions

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BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,208
12,527
136
The death penalty isn't just about deterrence...it's also about punishment and removing a person whose crimes are just so horrific that they should be forever removed from the face of the planet.
I'm a Dem who supports a woman's right to choose...since I can't get pregnant, I don't think I should have a say beyond "it's her choice," AND, I also support the death penalty...and support expanding its use to include things like forcible rape, armed robbery, car-jacking, burglary, repeated DUI's, and reposting stuff on internet forums.
ALL of those things are just heinous crimes against humanity.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Murdering a family and their kids seems to be quite a justification indeed. A conviction by a jury of their peers and decades of appeals and judicial review before the execution ever happen seem like quite formidable safeguards.

Not to mention the insane expense for the tax payers. It's cheaper to keep somebody locked up for the rest of their life than it is to execute them. Death penalty opponents will fight every one, as a matter of principle. That's regardless of the crime. Such is not the case with life sentences.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
59,239
13,839
136
The death penalty isn't just about deterrence...it's also about punishment and removing a person whose crimes are just so horrific that they should be forever removed from the face of the planet.
I'm a Dem who supports a woman's right to choose...since I can't get pregnant, I don't think I should have a say beyond "it's her choice," AND, I also support the death penalty...and support expanding its use to include things like forcible rape, armed robbery, car-jacking, burglary, repeated DUI's, and reposting stuff on internet forums.
ALL of those things are just heinous crimes against humanity.
But it keeps coming back to the fact that we know beyond a doubt we've already executed innocent people. I think one Benjamin Franklin had a quote that was relevant, and even that was just about incarceration itself, let alone execution.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,133
30,084
146
Murdering a family and their kids seems to be quite a justification indeed. A conviction by a jury of their peers and decades of appeals and judicial review before the execution ever happen seem like quite formidable safeguards.

and yet we know for a fundamental fact that they are not.

Once again, what you want things to seem to be are absolutely not how things are. Praying for "the seem" as hard as you can simply doesn't make it so.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,221
4,452
136
"I don't trust government to spend my tax dollars but I trust them with the power to kill people."

The Government almost never gets it right, but lets bet someone's life they did this time.

Life isn't sacred. Limiting abortion imposes accountability the same way the death penalty does.

So, you are now just openly admitting that you are anti-abortion because you think women should be punished for having sex?
 
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balloonshark

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2008
6,580
3,059
136
Everything this admin is doing right now is trying to get the Dem candidates distracted and talking about the rights of illegal immigrants and murderers and how their important. All this keeps them from talking about the real issues facing the people who vote. Yes all this stuff is wrong and very important but they are going to have to stay focused on what's important and always bring attention from issues like immigration and the death penalty.

#stayfocused
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,695
4,204
136
I'm overall fine with death penalties as long as their is zero question they did the crime. DNA, admittance, video, etc.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Evidently it wasn't cause for lost sleep for those who committed the murders and are now on death row.

I have a solution that fits your needs. The death penalty is permitted.

But

The person injured or nearest living relative decides if it applies.

and

If that is what they desire then they push the button or whatever, otherwise no.

and

If the person was wrongly executed then that person who killed an innocent person is automatically executed.

and

If the prosecution/LEO/judge/jury member is guilty of setting someone up then they have a child of their own executed. If no children, then themselves. The state carries out these executions.

Lives for lives and motivation to get it right.

Good idea on your part.
 
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balloonshark

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2008
6,580
3,059
136
Everyone for the death penalty should have to volunteer to throw the switch, push the plunger, etc. themselves. It could be like jury duty where they select a group of people to go watch and one of them is selected to take another person's life.

By the way, Last Week Tonight did an episode on lethal injections. You might want to watch it before you make up your minds.
The subject at hand starts at 0:40.

 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,133
30,084
146
I have a solution that fits your needs. The death penalty is permitted.

But

The person injured or nearest living relative decides if it applies.

and

If that is what they desire then they push the button or whatever, otherwise no.

and

If the person was wrongly executed then that person who killed an innocent person is automatically executed.

and

If the prosecution/LEO/judge/jury member is guilty of setting someone up then they have a child of their own executed. If no children, then themselves. The state carries out these executions.

Lives for lives and motivation to get it right.

Good idea on your part.

This is the only honest model for supporting state-sanctioned murder.
 

Juiblex

Banned
Sep 26, 2016
500
253
136
As a catholic, I don't like abortion or the death penalty. But there is a difference between a conservative and a republican. The republicans have been overtaken by neo-cons and the pro israel lobby. And most of those, although they claim to be "of faith" are not. I don't believe Trump is a man of faith at all. But I don't know the guy personally to make that determination, but his policies indicate otherwise.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
As a catholic, I don't like abortion or the death penalty. But there is a difference between a conservative and a republican. The republicans have been overtaken by neo-cons and the pro israel lobby. And most of those, although they claim to be "of faith" are not. I don't believe Trump is a man of faith at all. But I don't know the guy personally to make that determination, but his policies indicate otherwise.


Trump believes in Trump. 2000 years ago, he'd have declared himself to be a God.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,037
2,615
136
Murdering a family and their kids seems to be quite a justification indeed. A conviction by a jury of their peers and decades of appeals and judicial review before the execution ever happen seem like quite formidable safeguards.
You realize this is total BS right? All the evidence to date suggests widespread discriminatory practices predatory practices around death penalty associated trials and indictments. You're more likely to get a fair shot at a carnival game than you are as a non white person in a death penalty associated trial.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,221
4,452
136
You do understand that most people who commit murder are not exactly right in the head?

While it feels satisfying to think that, it is not true. Most people kill because their emotions override their reason, or because they profit from it, or because they believe it is the right thing to do. None of those things mean you are not right in the head.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,090
136
The problem for me isn't the death penalty itself but the undebatable fact that sometimes the wrong person is convicted and there is no possible restitution to be made. "Too bad so sad"? When many including the current President are faced with irrefutable proof of innocence they remain steadfast in their delusion.

Fix that and then we'll revisit the death penalty.
My sentiments exactly. I don't personally have a big moral or ethical dilemma with capital punishment... If it were 100% fool proof. However, it isn't, and I DO have a SIGNIFICANT problem with the execution of a single innocent person. That is simply an unacceptable loss.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,090
136
and yet we know for a fundamental fact that they are not.

Once again, what you want things to seem to be are absolutely not how things are. Praying for "the seem" as hard as you can simply doesn't make it so.
These folks need to just come out and admit that they're OK with a few innocents getting murdered in err as long as it means the bad guys get theirs. Similar to the gun debate.

Sometimes innocents just gotta die, because stuffs?
 

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
4,104
672
126
While it feels satisfying to think that, it is not true. Most people kill because their emotions override their reason, or because they profit from it, or because they believe it is the right thing to do. None of those things mean you are not right in the head.

That all sounds like psycopathic/sociopathic behavior to me, but I am not a psychologist, so /shrug.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,280
5,720
146
The death penalty isn't just about deterrence...it's also about punishment and removing a person whose crimes are just so horrific that they should be forever removed from the face of the planet.
I'm a Dem who supports a woman's right to choose...since I can't get pregnant, I don't think I should have a say beyond "it's her choice," AND, I also support the death penalty...and support expanding its use to include things like forcible rape, armed robbery, car-jacking, burglary, repeated DUI's, and reposting stuff on internet forums.
ALL of those things are just heinous crimes against humanity.

Its not about deterrence at all because it doesn't deter. Hell, trying to put it as the punishment for lesser crimes means people are going to be even that more desperate to not get caught or just kill indiscriminately for any crime.

And what about people who commit heinous shit that want to die? You know that a lot of people who do horrible shit choose that as the better alternative to facing actual punishment for their crimes, right? Wouldn't you rather these monsters have to dwell on their actions?

Another issue that people like you ignore is that we've learned a shitload by not executing such monsters. Literally the FBI was able to learn common behavior and indicators of say serial killers (which helped created profiling methods which have been used to solve other murders and catch killers), by being able to talk to them and learn more about what caused them to do what they did.

And that's before we get to how or flawed criminal justice system fucks the entire situation up (by letting wealthier and/or famous people game the system, or racial bias, or bad lawyers - on both sides like how the ones in the Casey Anthony trial let missed very damning evidence, or how public defenders have told people that had strong evidence proving their innocence to put in guilty pleas; or how about police planting evidence or coercing confessions).

Hell you know the West Memphis 3 got out by a special plea deal where they literally plead no contest to the state's guilty verdicts but got let out because the state knew that the evidence did not actually prove their guilt and if they hadn't fucked them over with bullshit that they wouldn't have been found guilty (hence them releasing them). Yet if we had it your way, they would've been put to death.

Not to mention the insane expense for the tax payers. It's cheaper to keep somebody locked up for the rest of their life than it is to execute them. Death penalty opponents will fight every one, as a matter of principle. That's regardless of the crime. Such is not the case with life sentences.

They'll just change the argument to "a bottle of aspirin or a bullet is cheap and more humane."

and yet we know for a fundamental fact that they are not.

Once again, what you want things to seem to be are absolutely not how things are. Praying for "the seem" as hard as you can simply doesn't make it so.

But that's because liberals won't let them be that way! Or are making them that way or whatever other nonsensical bullshit he's peddling as his reality (epidemics of sex changes to pass PT, him thinking he got some great tax cut and that he spends money better than poor people and therefore he deserves the money more, and I forget what insane crazy shit he spouted about abortion).

The Government almost never gets it right, but lets bet someone's life they did this time.



So, you are now just openly admitting that you are anti-abortion because you think women should be punished for having sex?

I'm pretty sure he's admitted that before. In his mind the woman bears all the responsibility for sex including when its rape. He really makes me think of certain people and I think if he hadn't gotten into the military where the rigorous predefined day to day life stuff kept him from probably acting on his beliefs, that he'd probably be some chumpass serial killer (he strikes me as a Robert Hansen type of personality, although I see similar general sentiment to what he exhibits in many others; the ones that target women and sex workers especially where they justify it by believing that they're doing society a favor).

I'm overall fine with death penalties as long as their is zero question they did the crime. DNA, admittance, video, etc.

Do you mean all of the above? Because that's often almost never possible and there's been instances where they had multiple of those but later were able to prove the person didn't do it by some new evidence (or better understanding of the forensic science; there was a case where a guy was on death row for murdering his family by arson because at the time they believed that a fire like that had to have been started intentionally and used accelerant, turns out that nope cheap furniture of the era, like the kind in the family's home would do exactly what they saw in that case and they were able to show how it wouldn't take that much to ignite like from a shorted overloaded wall outlet or other common household spark sources). Our methods are not infallible, and I'd guess there's almost zero murder cases that could pass absolute scrutiny (although I think that's what you're saying is if they do, then you're ok with the death penalty; my point being, where do we draw the line because almost all of those have had serious problems such that they are not infallible and even when used together its often not what it seems; on the flip side, to be fair we've had almost certainly guilty people get off because of some mishap in how it was handled which could even have nothing to do with the evidence being wrong or right).

The other thing is that, some of these people prefer the death penalty rather than having to deal with the reality of what they'd done. Or because they want the notoriety.

As a catholic, I don't like abortion or the death penalty. But there is a difference between a conservative and a republican. The republicans have been overtaken by neo-cons and the pro israel lobby. And most of those, although they claim to be "of faith" are not. I don't believe Trump is a man of faith at all. But I don't know the guy personally to make that determination, but his policies indicate otherwise.

Interesting that you chose to demark conservative and Republican and not Christian or religious and Republican even though that appears to be more what you're saying. That would be true if conservatives didn't unfailingly vote Republican, but they have been. I'd love for religious people to actually back up their ideals and stop voting for a party that actively works against those ideals at all times, and stop voting for politicians claiming to be the true followers of those ideals (yet, much like the Constitution that they so regularly reference, they seemingly haven't actually read the Bible outside of maybe a few parts that "spoke" to them), and do their horrible actions in the name of them.

But if you really believe that, you need to be the ones working to change that.