Barack Obama's speech on faith and politics

daniel49

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
4,814
0
71
Below is an excerpt from the speech, the entire speech can be viewed at the link provided.
I find him a lot more credible then Howard Deans lame attempts to find common ground with religious conservatives.
What do you think about his views, and the man himself?



For some time now, there has been plenty of talk among pundits and pollsters that the political divide in this country has fallen sharply along religious lines. Indeed, the single biggest ?gap? in party affiliation among white Americans today is not between men and women, or those who reside in so-called Red States and those who reside in Blue, but between those who attend church regularly and those who don?t.

speech
Conservative leaders, from Falwell and Robertson to Karl Rove and Ralph Reed, have been all too happy to exploit this gap, consistently reminding evangelical Christians that Democrats disrespect their values and dislike their Church, while suggesting to the rest of the country that religious Americans care only about issues like abortion and gay marriage; school prayer and intelligent design.


Democrats, for the most part, have taken the bait. At best, we may try to avoid the conversation about religious values altogether, fearful of offending anyone and claiming that ? regardless of our personal beliefs ? constitutional principles tie our hands. At worst, some liberals dismiss religion in the public square as inherently irrational or intolerant, insisting on a caricature of religious Americans that paints them as fanatical, or thinking that the very word ?Christian? describes one?s political opponents, not people of faith.


Such strategies of avoidance may work for progressives when the opponent is Alan Keyes. But over the long haul, I think we make a mistake when we fail to acknowledge the power of faith in the lives of the American people, and join a serious debate about how to reconcile faith with our modern, pluralistic democracy.


We first need to understand that Americans are a religious people. 90 percent of us believe in God, 70 percent affiliate themselves with an organized religion, 38 percent call themselves committed Christians, and substantially more people believe in angels than do those who believe in evolution.


This religious tendency is not simply the result of successful marketing by skilled preachers or the draw of popular mega-churches. In fact, it speaks to a hunger that?s deeper than that ? a hunger that goes beyond any particular issue or cause.

 

Modular

Diamond Member
Jul 1, 2005
5,027
67
91
Great post.

I agree that the rift between party lines often does revolve around moral and religious beliefs/values. I also think that you are spot on when you say that the recognition of religion in America and it's inherent effect shoudl be understood and respected.

Now if only others would open their minds up to this type of thinking... obviously ^^^^
 

2Xtreme21

Diamond Member
Jun 13, 2004
7,044
0
0
It's going to be hard (read: impossible) for the Democrats to garner support from Evangelicals-- what with the preachers saying the Dems are the devil and are out to murder everyone and such. I think it'd be better off if they stop associating with that minority of the population and to start working on exploiting the fact that America SHOULDN'T be a country governed explicitly by religion. If they sway more to the center and begining exposing just how far right the Republicans are, they'll have a much easier time gaining support.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
13,164
10,525
136
Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
It's going to be hard (read: impossible) for the Democrats to garner support from Evangelicals-- what with the preachers saying the Dems are the devil and are out to murder everyone and such. I think it'd be better off if they stop associating with that minority of the population and to start working on exploiting the fact that America SHOULDN'T be a country governed explicitly by religion. If they sway more to the center and begining exposing just how far right the Republicans are, they'll have a much easier time gaining support.

And it should be hard for those preachers to stay in "business" when they lose their tax-exempt status for endorsing a party.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: daniel49
Topic Title: Barack Obama's speech on faith and politics

My speech:

Faith and Politics do not belong in the same sentence. Period.

Amen

lmao politics and political ideologies are faith.

 

LumbergTech

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2005
3,622
1
0
Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: daniel49
Topic Title: Barack Obama's speech on faith and politics

My speech:

Faith and Politics do not belong in the same sentence. Period.

Amen

lmao politics and political ideologies are faith.

Uh what?


not quite sure but apparently hes amused with himself...

im guessing that what he thinks he has said is not true though :)
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: daniel49
Topic Title: Barack Obama's speech on faith and politics

My speech:

Faith and Politics do not belong in the same sentence. Period.

Amen

lmao politics and political ideologies are faith.

Uh what?

You dont see the similarities between political ideologies and religion?
Both have their own set of faiths.


 

Modular

Diamond Member
Jul 1, 2005
5,027
67
91
Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
It's going to be hard (read: impossible) for the Democrats to garner support from Evangelicals-- what with the preachers saying the Dems are the devil and are out to murder everyone and such.
It's misinformed BS like this that causes the problem.

Pat Robertson does not count for more than .01% of the Christian population of the US.

And yes, political affiliation and religion both have similarities.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
Originally posted by: Pens1566
Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
It's going to be hard (read: impossible) for the Democrats to garner support from Evangelicals-- what with the preachers saying the Dems are the devil and are out to murder everyone and such. I think it'd be better off if they stop associating with that minority of the population and to start working on exploiting the fact that America SHOULDN'T be a country governed explicitly by religion. If they sway more to the center and begining exposing just how far right the Republicans are, they'll have a much easier time gaining support.

And it should be hard for those preachers to stay in "business" when they lose their tax-exempt status for endorsing a party.

You have no idea concerning what you just said.
It is NOT that simple.
very few if any have ever lost there tax exempt status over the above.
 

Termagant

Senior member
Mar 10, 2006
765
0
0
Originally posted by: daniel49
Below is an excerpt from the speech, the entire speech can be viewed at the link provided.
I find him a lot more credible then Howard Deans lame attempts to find common ground with religious conservatives.
What do you think about his views, and the man himself?

I think he's just a better actor than Howard Dean.
 

daniel49

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
4,814
0
71
Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
It's going to be hard (read: impossible) for the Democrats to garner support from Evangelicals-- what with the preachers saying the Dems are the devil and are out to murder everyone and such. I think it'd be better off if they stop associating with that minority of the population and to start working on exploiting the fact that America SHOULDN'T be a country governed explicitly by religion. If they sway more to the center and begining exposing just how far right the Republicans are, they'll have a much easier time gaining support.

I think some may be looking more for signs that if the Democratic party is not Pro-Christian, that they are at least neutral. Many Evangelicals do feel the Dems have been anti-christian for years.
 

daniel49

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
4,814
0
71
Originally posted by: Termagant
Originally posted by: daniel49
Below is an excerpt from the speech, the entire speech can be viewed at the link provided.
I find him a lot more credible then Howard Deans lame attempts to find common ground with religious conservatives.
What do you think about his views, and the man himself?

I think he's just a better actor than Howard Dean.

lol, that may be. we'll see how his career develops.
 

daniel49

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
4,814
0
71
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: daniel49
Topic Title: Barack Obama's speech on faith and politics

My speech:

Faith and Politics do not belong in the same sentence. Period.

Amen

You just broke your own promise. ;)
 

GeNome

Senior member
Jan 12, 2006
432
0
0
He seems like a really sensible guy to me. Much better then most of the other Dems out there who don't know what the heck is going on.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,112
6,610
126
Man was born with capacities we can't imagine but destroyed by put downs as a child. We were taught to hate ourselves and abandon who we were along with our infinite potential. This has been going on since the invention of language in the last 100,000 thousand years or so, where language made possible the invention of abstract thought, the invention of concepts that aren't real like the notion there is good and evil. Thought creates time and fear the critic who stands apart and judges our actions, the self hating machine that tells us we are no good. We separated from the pure reacting of beingness in life to self judgment and self condemnation. We live in duality removed from the spontaneity of joy and catch ourselves if we relax too much least we fall into the unprotected state in which we were originally psychically murdered.

So in all of us there is this deep longing but it expresses itself in two ways. On the one hand we long for the Unity of the God state of pure being and we fear it with all the fear that was used to eject us therefrom. So our lives are a disaster because the greater and greater our longing grows the closer to the surface comes our hate. We have such deep needs for love and they used our need to punish us and make us feel weak. We hate ourselves for our need and we need so badly because of our self hate.

God is the healing, the bridge that leads to being, but God is also the weapon we use to pretend our needs are filled when they're not, the pretense we're better than you, the notion we have arrived at great spiritual depth while still asleep.

We have all been forgiven. You can think or believe you are but this means nothing. Or you can FEEL that you are forgiven and that will radiate forth as the light of God by the fact that you forgive everything too. There is no sin. It is all a complete illusion. There is only the being joy of vibrating love in the now. Only God is real.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: GeNome
He seems like a really sensible guy to me. Much better then most of the other Dems out there who don't know what the heck is going on.

He also seems like a guy who could really beat the Republicans. The Republicans have been great at the kind of viscious, divisize politics Karl Rove has perfected...and Democrats have been really bad at fighting back, mostly because they DON'T fight back in a meaningful sense. Obama, on the other hand, does an excellent job of speaking about unity and has a message that I think will appeal to a lot of folks. And it has the side effect of making the Republican strategy look all the more trivial and childish.
 

raz3000

Banned
Jul 14, 2005
441
0
0
He spoke at my university commencement couple of weeks ago. Too bad I didn't go, even though I'm graduating. I was just too lazy, if you can believe it! (and no, I wasn't pressured by my family to go, though they really wanted to)
 

LumbergTech

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2005
3,622
1
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Man was born with capacities we can't imagine but destroyed by put downs as a child. We were taught to hate ourselves and abandon who we were along with our infinite potential. This has been going on since the invention of language in the last 100,000 thousand years or so, where language made possible the invention of abstract thought, the invention of concepts that aren't real like the notion there is good and evil. Thought creates time and fear the critic who stands apart and judges our actions, the self hating machine that tells us we are no good. We separated from the pure reacting of beingness in life to self judgment and self condemnation. We live in duality removed from the spontaneity of joy and catch ourselves if we relax too much least we fall into the unprotected state in which we were originally psychically murdered.

So in all of us there is this deep longing but it expresses itself in two ways. On the one hand we long for the Unity of the God state of pure being and we fear it with all the fear that was used to eject us therefrom. So our lives are a disaster because the greater and greater our longing grows the closer to the surface comes our hate. We have such deep needs for love and they used our need to punish us and make us feel weak. We hate ourselves for our need and we need so badly because of our self hate.

God is the healing, the bridge that leads to being, but God is also the weapon we use to pretend our needs are filled when they're not, the pretense we're better than you, the notion we have arrived at great spiritual depth while still asleep.

We have all been forgiven. You can think or believe you are but this means nothing. Or you can FEEL that you are forgiven and that will radiate forth as the light of God by the fact that you forgive everything too. There is no sin. It is all a complete illusion. There is only the being joy of vibrating love in the now. Only God is real.


what you have described is the placebo effect, and it can be had without god i assure you
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,112
6,610
126
Our Placebo, who art in the pill box
hallowed be thy Name,
thy kingdom come,
thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our sugar pill
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those
who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom,
and the power, and the glory,
for ever and ever.
Amen.

Yeah, it has a certain ring to it.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
It's about time someone fought back against the onslaught of religious BS from the GOP.

The actual policies of the GOP are often the antithesis of being Christ-like . . .

Aside from his brain fart on Indonesia/East Timor . . . Jimmy Carter is probably the sole President in the past 40 years with policies that generally reflect the true ethos of evangelical Christianity. Curiously, the consensus was that he was one of the worst Presidents of the past half century . . . until Bush43 took his title.
 

HombrePequeno

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2001
4,657
0
0
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
It's about time someone fought back against the onslaught of religious BS from the GOP.

The actual policies of the GOP are often the antithesis of being Christ-like . . .

That reminds me of Al Franken's comic about Supply-Side Jesus.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,112
6,610
126
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
It's about time someone fought back against the onslaught of religious BS from the GOP.

The actual policies of the GOP are often the antithesis of being Christ-like . . .

Aside from his brain fart on Indonesia/East Timor . . . Jimmy Carter is probably the sole President in the past 40 years with policies that generally reflect the true ethos of evangelical Christianity. Curiously, the consensus was that he was one of the worst Presidents of the past half century . . . until Bush43 took his title.

Was the best ever as far as I'm concerned. An actual human as pres. Just amazing.