Do we really have the whole story though? All we have is a couple of clips of the pastor out of how many thousands of hours of sermons, how many assumptions do we have to make here? Maybe he just got carried away a couple of times, maybe he didn't used to say things like that 20 years ago. Who the hell really KNOWS. That's the point here, all we really have is a minister saying some stupid stuff and the fact that he's linked to Obama...a perfect political opportunity for folks who don't like Obama, but nothing a reasonable person could draw any conclusions from.
I'm sorry but have you actually listened to the things this pastor is saying in the audio clips? Saying them even once is offensive enough, but this man has said them numerous times. I would love to hear how there could be ANY logical explanation for the things he has said.
Because he could possibly become the spiritual advisor for the next possible President of the United States? Just for starters.
Obama has said he disagrees with the views Wright expressed, in fact he's said it several times now, and I have no reason to think he's lying. Obama has also denounced Wright in general...making your prediction pretty unlikely. Whatever Wright says or thinks, the chance that it has had (or will have) any influence on Obama seems pretty minimal...so what do I care what Wright is running off his mouth about?
Obama is running on his superior judgment. Does he have good judgment by having a 20 year close relationship with this minister (calling him his moral compass and spiritual adviser)? That is a very relevant question for voters to judge especially since he is running on judgment.
Edit: Obama only denounced Wright's statements after the videos surfaced. Previously, he referred to the blame America for 9/11 statement as the minister trying to be provocative.
It might be a relevant question, but we don't have enough information to answer it. All we know is that some clips of the minister saying some stupid stuff surfaced recently, and Obama immediately came out against what the minister was saying. Now we can try to guess about the past 20 years of their relationship, but since my crystal ball is broken at the moment, I'm not sure how I'd be doing anything other than confirming my existing viewpoint if I tried to make ANY sort of judgement about this situation beyond what I know.
What you are missing is that Wright already HAS influenced Obama's views. FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS!
So Obama is either completely ignorant to attend a church for 20 years and not know the beliefs of his own pastor. Not only a pastor, but one whom he considered at one point a spiritual advisor and close friend.
OR
Obama is a black separatist like his pastor who now tries to backpedal once the heat is on.
I'd give Obama the benefit of the doubt and say he probably falls under the first category. Though, thats not a good place to be when your entire platform is based on what he has.
SSSnail
Lifer
- Nov 29, 2006
- 17,461
- 81
- 86
Hi, I have 20 yrs membership in the KK and K, but all of a sudden, I'll just denounce and reject it. I'm running for president.
Disregard whatever I've been intimate with in the past, it's the past. I let it go, you should too. Don't worry about me, I've shown that I've made good judgment, after all I have had made good judgment regarding the Iraq war, when I didn't even have to vote for it. It's so fun telling you this story because I know you'll eat it all up. Can't you see I've already have a bunch of rich, educated and young people voting for me? Now, imagine what I can do to your states, you should be envious of the states that voted for me because they're full of rich, educated and young people. Don't you want to be like them? Rich, educated and young? Yes, join the movement. Come to me. I've got plenty of seats on this bandwagon.
Anyways, remember to vote for me, because I will unite this nation. I can see that it's an easy job because racial tension are nonexistence, and that once I'm president, everything will be rosy and everybody will do what I say because they don't want to be labeled a racist. Trust me, I play that card very well. It has gotten to a point where I can make all sort of stupid remarks and empty rhetorics (wait, that must be my campaign advisers, because I don't make stupid remarks) and can get away with it. You don't want to be labeled as racist do you? That's good, that's right... good boy.
I'm SSSnail and I approve of this message.
Disregard whatever I've been intimate with in the past, it's the past. I let it go, you should too. Don't worry about me, I've shown that I've made good judgment, after all I have had made good judgment regarding the Iraq war, when I didn't even have to vote for it. It's so fun telling you this story because I know you'll eat it all up. Can't you see I've already have a bunch of rich, educated and young people voting for me? Now, imagine what I can do to your states, you should be envious of the states that voted for me because they're full of rich, educated and young people. Don't you want to be like them? Rich, educated and young? Yes, join the movement. Come to me. I've got plenty of seats on this bandwagon.
Anyways, remember to vote for me, because I will unite this nation. I can see that it's an easy job because racial tension are nonexistence, and that once I'm president, everything will be rosy and everybody will do what I say because they don't want to be labeled a racist. Trust me, I play that card very well. It has gotten to a point where I can make all sort of stupid remarks and empty rhetorics (wait, that must be my campaign advisers, because I don't make stupid remarks) and can get away with it. You don't want to be labeled as racist do you? That's good, that's right... good boy.
I'm SSSnail and I approve of this message.
It wasn't a story until the videos surfaced...are political candidates supposed to go around denouncing everything they've ever disagreed with in their entire lives just in case someone releases a video of it to CNN? You're also assuming that he KNEW about those specific statements before the video surfaced...
As for the 9/11 statement, I don't see the big deal...it's not like Obama AGREED with it or anything.
How do you know what's been going on the past 20 years?
Come on...you really think those are the only two options? Pretend for a moment you REALLY are giving Obama the benefit of the doubt and think about it.
The rhetorical power of eye rolling aside, I'd rather base my decision about a candidate on facts...not inference. If somebody can produce anything that demonstrates Obama holds those kind of radical views, I'm on board. Other than that, you'll forgive me if I don't find your FUD particularly convincing.
Nice dodge.
Yes, the other option would be to excuse it all. That seems to be what you have chosen. I'm sure you'd be the first to give the same benefit of the doubt if Jerry Fallwell was so close to McCain.
Sinsear
Diamond Member
- Jan 13, 2007
- 6,435
- 79
- 91
Don't be so sure about that. I've been hearing some rumblings at work about this, and I've also heard it from my mother, who was going to vote for him, but is now reconsidering. She said she can't understand how Obama is saying that he didn't know when he has been close enough to him for 20 years to consider him his moral compass. Any which way you slice it, it is not so good for Obama. I'm not going to vote for him anyways, but the damage has been done. The talking heads will be able to spin this however they want, and every time it may die down, all they have to do is pull out the "goddamn America" statement and link it to Obama's "moral compass" and it will repeat itself.
What's wrong with just disagreeing with the message but focusing on what brought him to the church, namely helping the poor? Perhaps this Rev. Wright has good qualities when it comes to helping the poor?
I don't know, I tried to call the Psychic Hotline but apparently their number is now owned by Papa Johns. On the plus side, I should be getting a pizza and some wings any minute now.
Seriously, are we going to sit around debating which imaginary scenario is more likely? I'm sure it would be a fascinating theoretical exercise and all, but not a great way to make a political decision.
Sinsear
Diamond Member
- Jan 13, 2007
- 6,435
- 79
- 91
I can't; but it doesn't matter; only perception matters. The damage has been done. Not everyone is as enlightened or learned as the people in here. The average voter is turned off by that nonsense.
And I'm not spreading FUD at all. I don't really care what Obama says. He can heal the blind and turn water into wine, but I'm still not going to vote for him. Even McCain, in his hour long with Hannity debunked this connection between Obama and his pastor, saying he knows Obama doesn't share those views; but to the average voter, who is not as smart as you and I, will not get past this.
I'm not dodging or excusing anything. You guys are the ones claiming all sorts of things must have been happening over the past 20 years, yet you've failed to prove any of it.
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