Barack Obama adviser says Sharia Law is misunderstood

[alchemize]

She needs to be put in her place.

 

[kylebisme]

You only say that because you've never taken the time to learn yours.

 

[Lemon law]

We also have to understand that Afghanistan is still mired in the technology of the 10'th century and with the same educational levels for the bulk of the population.

And we get hoppin mad that suddenly Afghanistan lags our "enlightened" treatment of woman's rights. When anyone who has any rudimentary understanding of US history knows women have had the right to vote for less than a century, still do not have an equal rights amendment to the constitution, and women in the USA had legal rights that really sucked in the USA 150 years ago.

And in terms of women sharing the rights of equal religious worship, forget it in Saudi Arabia and Israel. Its segregated to this day.
Separate but not equal.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Ask the muslim man next to you if he agrees... then ask the one next to him... then the next... etc.

Good luck finding more than a handful who can agree on any one interpretation of the Qu'ran; or the merit, accuracy, and modern applicability of any one particular set (version) of the Hadith.

Therein lies the problem. Still, to this day, too many muslims still adhere to the fundamentalist aspects of each -- way too many. Solve that problem, and you may just get a gold star for your efforts. (Sorry, the Nobel Peace Prize is already taken :laugh.

Omar, the beauty of your OP is that you had to reach back over 500 years to give an example of the Christians doing something similar. While there are certainly more recent examples, I think you get the point... The majority of Christians used to be just as bad. Now? In the 21st Century? Not so much. All muslims, as a collective, need to rise up and stamp out the fundamentalism that is eating them from within -- or we'll do it for them. Once they (you?) do that, it's all gravy, and we'll all hug and kiss and call it a day. I just don't see that happening quickly enough, adamantly enough, or in enough locations.

IOW, more muslims need to step the fuck up and help fix this (their) problem.

Sharia law, as it was written, has no place in the modern world. None. Until all muslims come to accept that fact, there will be war -- one very much worth fighting.

That's not to say that it cannot be completely rewritten to suit the modern world; but, when and where that happens, I wouldn't call it "Sharia" any longer.

Equal human rights (life), freedom (liberty), and the pursuit of happiness, above all else. Period.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: kylebisme
You only say that because you've never taken the time to learn yours.

Please take your own life.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-...ut-pelosi-in-her-place

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: kylebisme
You only say that because you've never taken the time to learn yours.

Please take your own life.
------------------------------------------------------------
No, alxhemize, you got that one 100% wrong, as an American taxpayer I am sick and tired of paying for the mistakes you and your ilk make.

And cheer up, you get to pay for them too. Live long, don't prosper, but keep on paying.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
<snip>

Bunch of humorless twits. Subtlety is wasted upon you.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
The other thing to note, and why this thread is relevant, is that Nato acceptance of Sharia law may be one of the costs to be paid in Winning the Afghan peace. And if Nato can have some hand in writing the final codes, woman's rights and a host of other rights can be protected. Keeping everyone rational happy.

Just like we helped woman's rights in Iraq by allowing Sharia to be codified into law?

Text

Iraqi Laws and Procedures
The Iraqi Social Status (civil) Law follows the Islamic Sharia (Islamic legislation). Under Islamic law, an Iraqi Muslim female may not marry a non Muslim male. However an Iraqi Muslim male may marry a Muslim, Christian, or Jewish female.


Marriage of a Muslim to a Non-Muslim
Muslim women in Iraq are legally prohibited from marrying a non-Muslim. Therefore, the non-Muslim male must convert his religion to Islam and file a petition with the Social Status Court to declare that he is Muslim. Muslim men in Iraq are permitted to marry non-Muslim women if they are Christian or Jewish only. If the woman belongs to any other religion, she must convert to Islam

What's next, saying gays should be allowed to marry in the west but turning a blind eye when they are executed for it in countries implementing Sharia law and calling it a misunderstanding?

 

[BarrySotero]

"What's next, saying gays should be allowed to marry in the west but turning a blind eye when they are executed for it in countries implementing Sharia law and calling it a misunderstanding?"

The understanding of Islam and sharia is pretty vague in this place. The usual contradictions shine even brighter because of it. When people talk about sharia and the Koran but never the Haddith and Sunnah your almost safer not posting.

 

[FaaR]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Accepting Sharia Law = OK to lefties.

Strawman.

Posting the 10 commandments in a Courthouse = OMGWTFBBQ!!!


See the problem here?

Yeah, the bias in your mind is sticking out like a beam in your eye.

Btw, the ten commandments have no place in a courthouse, as they're not a part of the law of the land. Try a church instead, buddy.

What's interesting is the instant hate coming primarily from ignorant people like yourself as soon as you say something like "sharia law is misunderstood". According to people like you, you're not ALLOWED to understand it. You're supposed to HATE it, vehemently, despite much of the same kind of brutal barbarism and and misogynism is present in the christian bible.

Not that I expect you to understand; deeply biased people almost never do.

 

[Moonbeam]

Link for the few among you who may be interested in expanding your thinking.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Link for the few among you who may be interested in expanding your thinking.

"A movement to allow sharia to govern personal status law, a set of regulations that pertain to marriage, divorce, inheritance, and custody, is even expanding into the West."

Marriage: OK fine, let it govern marriage
Divorce: Only the non-financial aspects
Inheritance: Absolutely not
Custody: Absolutely not

If it can be like non-binding arbitration, ok..but can never, ever be a part of common law.

Now onto the bullshit:

hadd punishments, those that fall under a judge's discretion, and those resolved through a tit-for-tat measure (ie., blood money paid to the family of a murder victim). There are five hadd crimes: unlawful sexual intercourse (sex outside of marriage and adultery), false accusation of unlawful sexual intercourse, wine drinking (sometimes extended to include all alcohol drinking), theft, and highway robbery. Punishments for hadd offenses--flogging, stoning, amputation, exile, or execution--get a significant amount of media attention when they occur. These sentences are not often prescribed, however. "In reality, most Muslim countries do not use traditional classical Islamic punishments," says Ali Mazrui of the Institute of Global Cultural Studies in a Voice of America interview. These punishments remain on the books in some countries but lesser penalties are often considered sufficient.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: glenn1
You tell 'em, Miss Mogahed. Sharia is a force for good in the world, letting women know what their place is. Now get in the kitchen and help your husband's four other wives to make him a sandwich.

When the women finish in the kitchen, shouldn't they also gather and polish stones for use in stoning women who commit various crimes, such as being raped or having merely looked at a male they don't know the wrong way?

 

[BladeVenom]

Originally posted by: FaaR

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Accepting Sharia Law = OK to lefties.

Strawman.

Posting the 10 commandments in a Courthouse = OMGWTFBBQ!!!


See the problem here?

Yeah, the bias in your mind is sticking out like a beam in your eye.

Btw, the ten commandments have no place in a courthouse, as they're not a part of the law of the land. Try a church instead, buddy.

The ten commandments have historical and symbolic legal importance. Just like Lady justice with the scales. They are not given any legal significance, so there shouldn't be anything wrong with displaying them.

Do you think Lady Justice should be banned. It was a Roman goddess. Lets ban Christmas trees on public property, they were a pagan symbol. Or do believe in just discriminating against, Jewish and Christian symbols?

 

[yllus]

No good ever comes from mixing religion and law. If you one day realize that you're committing blasphemy by questioning the validity of a law, it's time to gather your friends, grab your pitchforks and head for the capitol building.

Sharia law is in fact widely misunderstood - in most ways it mirrors the Western definition of common law. Unfortunately, strapped on top of that are a bunch of laws made by guys who find it heavily advantageous to enforce discrimination based on gender, sexuality and caste. The need for women to cover their hair (hijab) or their entire face (burqa) has no basis in the Koran. Sure is a useful tool in keeping 51% of the population down, though...

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Just like we helped woman's rights in Iraq by allowing Sharia to be codified into law?

I think most of Iraq is resentful enough of the U.S. without the additional insult of being told their customs are backwards and unacceptable, even if they actually are backwards and unacceptable. Sometimes it's better to be pragmatic.

 

[Equ1n0x]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Anyone who promotes Sharia should be buried alive up to their neck and then stoned. Live through it and then get back to us about how great it is.

That's how the Holy Bible tells us we should deal with adulterers and fornicators of both sexes. Please discuss how that is a correct and moral way of living, too. I'll start you off on chapters that you can read: Leviticus.

If you want to discuss the New Testament, and it's views of women, I'll refer you to both chapters of the Thessalonians, and the Corinthians, as a side read, to make sure you are really "getting" how they viewed women.

 

[Equ1n0x]

Originally posted by: theflyingpig
Foolish laws based on a foolish religion. There is nothing to misunderstand about Sharia law. It has no place in the modern world. Everyone knows this.

Thank you. Neither does Christianity.

 

[Lemon law]

I agree with yllus, the indigenous population of places like Iraq and Afghanistan have grown up for generations with of all manner of variations of Sharia law, and to try to impose somewhat of a strange and foreign legal system will go over like a lead balloon.

In the same way, we have all grown up with a judio christian based legal system that is not per say all that different than Sharia law. But if some foreign conquer tried to impose a totally foreign legal system on us, it would chafe like an ill fitting suit.

In short, people are people all over the globe, modified Sharia law can accomplish our objectives while trying to impose a foreign legal system is a deal killer.

 

[Equ1n0x]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I agree with yllus, the indigenous population of places like Iraq and Afghanistan have grown up for generations with of all manner of variations of Sharia law, and to try to impose somewhat of a strange and foreign legal system will go over like a lead balloon.

In the same way, we have all grown up with a judio christian based legal system that is not per say all that different than Sharia law. But if some foreign conquer tried to impose a totally foreign legal system on us, it would chafe like an ill fitting suit.

In short, people are people all over the globe, modified Sharia law can accomplish our objectives while trying to impose a foreign legal system is a deal killer.

My point is that American law is just as oppressive of women, more pointedly American thought is the same as Sharia law. One could argue we have *less* respect for women than Sharia law does. The fact that we are arguing over laws that apply to women in both countries, but not men should tell you something. Please say it. "Women and men are different, so different laws apply".

When you understand why that is messed up, you will understand why Sharia and right wing Christianity aren't different at all, just interpreted differently by both sects of frightening religion.

Many European countries outgrew this thinking. Russia outgrew this thinking after the iron curtain dropped, that should tell you something about America.

 

[DesiPower]

An important lesson from Hussein to America!

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Equ1n0xThat's how the Holy Bible tells us we should deal with adulterers and fornicators of both sexes. Please discuss how that is a correct and moral way of living, too. I'll start you off on chapters that you can read: Leviticus.

If you want to discuss the New Testament, and it's views of women, I'll refer you to both chapters of the Thessalonians, and the Corinthians, as a side read, to make sure you are really "getting" how they viewed women.

Let us know when a government proposes to have Biblical law or a U.S. President says that it's OK and I'm sure people will step up to condemn it.

But, we're not talking about Biblical Christian law in this thread. We're talking about Sharia Law, something that is actually in place in some parts of the world and something the President's adviser seemed to condone.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Equ1n0xMy point is that American law is just as oppressive of women, more pointedly American thought is the same as Sharia law. One could argue we have *less* respect for women than Sharia law does. The fact that we are arguing over laws that apply to women in both countries, but not men should tell you something. Please say it. "Women and men are different, so different laws apply".

Could you please tell us how and where the American law is oppressive of women?

Perhaps you could point to the all-female draft or the legalization of involuntary circumcision for women (while involuntary male circumcision is completely illegal)? Maybe you'll point out that the vast majority of the people who are in jail or who are homeless are women? Will you tell us that 75% of all suicides are women and that women have a shorter lifespan then men? Aren't most on-the-job injuries and deaths suffered by women? Don't women lose most custody battles and aren't they made to pay alimony to men? Also, isn't it true that in the event of an unplanned pregnancy, women have no choice about parenthood but men have all the choice about whether or not they'll be an abortion? Isn't most of the gender-specific medical research funding given to men in this country? What about the affirmative action laws that give men preferences when they apply for jobs even though a woman might be, objectively, far more qualified for the job?

Will you tell us about all of that discrimination against women?

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: Equ1n0x
My point is that American law is just as oppressive of women, more pointedly American thought is the same as Sharia law. One could argue we have *less* respect for women than Sharia law does. The fact that we are arguing over laws that apply to women in both countries, but not men should tell you something. Please say it. "Women and men are different, so different laws apply".

When you understand why that is messed up, you will understand why Sharia and right wing Christianity aren't different at all, just interpreted differently by both sects of frightening religion.

Many European countries outgrew this thinking. Russia outgrew this thinking after the iron curtain dropped, that should tell you something about America.

umm, no.

 

[bfdd]

Originally posted by: Equ1n0x

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I agree with yllus, the indigenous population of places like Iraq and Afghanistan have grown up for generations with of all manner of variations of Sharia law, and to try to impose somewhat of a strange and foreign legal system will go over like a lead balloon.

In the same way, we have all grown up with a judio christian based legal system that is not per say all that different than Sharia law. But if some foreign conquer tried to impose a totally foreign legal system on us, it would chafe like an ill fitting suit.

In short, people are people all over the globe, modified Sharia law can accomplish our objectives while trying to impose a foreign legal system is a deal killer.

My point is that American law is just as oppressive of women, more pointedly American thought is the same as Sharia law. One could argue we have *less* respect for women than Sharia law does. The fact that we are arguing over laws that apply to women in both countries, but not men should tell you something. Please say it. "Women and men are different, so different laws apply".

When you understand why that is messed up, you will understand why Sharia and right wing Christianity aren't different at all, just interpreted differently by both sects of frightening religion.

Many European countries outgrew this thinking. Russia outgrew this thinking after the iron curtain dropped, that should tell you something about America.

A woman comes out and says she's raped in a country that holds Sharia Law as the highest law, she gets put in prison or sentenced to death. A woman comes out and says she was raped in America, the man is dragged through the street as a sex offender and outright bastard of society even before he's proven guilty. Yes our laws are totally as oppressive.

While most people don't have a big grasp on Sharia Law, that doesn't mean it's misunderstood. You idiots defending that bullshit are retarded. I've seen some of you demonize those parents for letting their child die because they didn't want to seek medical help, yet you're OK with Sharia Law...

 

[piasabird]

We have a system of laws and guarantees of freedom in the United States. The first is the freedom to the type of religion we want and the worship how we wish without interference from any governmental body. This freedom has deep roots. As a freedom it goes back to the abuse of power by the Catholic Church and the pope in the middle ages and the crusades. It took a long time to throw off the shackles of tyrrany by religious leaders in favor of true freedom and a civil government. This is why people came to the USA. They wanted the right to choose their own church religion or to choose no religion if that is what they want. No law run by any religious denomination can or should be respected.

The second and equally important is the freedom of speech. The ability to have opposing views to a government and also to any specific religion of faith is central to freedom.

Without either one of these rights, you do not have any freedom. In a way, with freedom and respect for other people religion can flourish. However, no one faith has a right to make civil laws or establish a government. This is both to protect religious freedom and prevent religious tyrrany.