Bank Stress Tests Leaked?

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: Jeff7
And of course, those who took all these risks will feel very little effect from this. Screw gold, they've got multi-layered platinum parachutes. All these "risky" loans they keep talking about - the problem with them is, those taking the risks weren't really betting their own assets. Or to say it another way, they weren't doing this at any risk to themselves; they were gambling with everyone else's stuff. It's the game of "You Risk Your Life!" except "your" doesn't refer to your own life.


A guest on The Daily Show recently gave her explanation of it. She spoke of an old boom&bust cycle that the economy followed. To stop this, regulations were put in place. Slowly, the regulations were quietly unraveled, in order to divert more tasty profits back to the top. Now we're getting to watch the biggest bust in history implode on itself, while those responsible for it watch from a very safe and wealthy distance.

Mainly, Fannie and Freddie.

:roll:

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: bob4432
shit, and i didn't buy gold when i could have got it for $480/oz

Gold will be just as worthless as cash if the economy tanks.
There are 5 things that will have value when an economy goes down the toilet:

Guns, Ammo, Food, Water, Sex

And according to many people, cigarettes. For me, it would also include oil and a power generator. This way, I can use it to create electricity for cooking, cleaning, and powering the 42" plasma.

lets not forget alcohol

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: Genx87
I believe the CEO of Wellsfargo and TCF wanted to give their money back partly because of this stress test. I dont know how the tarp money affects banks in this regard. But both of them basically called the stress test "assinine".

Well they would, wouldn't they? It appears that financial institutions have played loose and fast and as a result have become extremely fragile, like a house of cards. It reflects badly on management, and that's precisely what CEOs are.

No one is going to like what they find when light is shone in those dusty corners.

I dont recall the exact words. But it was something along the lines of the tarp money made it an unrealistic scenario where they would fail.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: bob4432
shit, and i didn't buy gold when i could have got it for $480/oz

Gold will be just as worthless as cash if the economy tanks.
There are 5 things that will have value when an economy goes down the toilet:

Guns, Ammo, Food, Water, Sex

Gold while now is percieved as a luxury, will be worthless, because it doesn't do anything. In a time where finding your next meal is the most important aspect of your day, gold is useless. you can't eat it. Bob with some extra food is going to keep his food unless he can get 1 of the above mentioned 5 items.

You can invest in gold, I'll invest in guns. Because if I have a gun and you don't, I also have what you have. If you're nice I'll just kill you, if you put up a fight, I'll make you suffer.*


*This is not directly intended or targeted at any one, it is a hypothetical situation between a survivorist and a gold horder.

And when one buys gold do they recieve gold in the weight they bought? If not then if the world tanks people wont have any gold either as the people who actually have the gold that was bought on paper horde it and tell everybody to go fly a kite with a hole in it when they come to collect.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

You can invest in gold, I'll invest in guns. Because if I have a gun and you don't, I also have what you have. If you're nice I'll just kill you, if you put up a fight, I'll make you suffer.*


*This is not directly intended or targeted at any one, it is a hypothetical situation between a survivorist and a gold horder.

I don't care if that's hypothetical or not, suggesting that you'd make people suffer for putting up a fight is something a psychopath would do, not a survivalist.

 

[nixium]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

You can invest in gold, I'll invest in guns. Because if I have a gun and you don't, I also have what you have. If you're nice I'll just kill you, if you put up a fight, I'll make you suffer.*


*This is not directly intended or targeted at any one, it is a hypothetical situation between a survivorist and a gold horder.

You're a fvking lunatic.

Someone needs to give you a psychiatric evaluation and take your guns away from you.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: bob4432
shit, and i didn't buy gold when i could have got it for $480/oz

Gold will be just as worthless as cash if the economy tanks.
There are 5 things that will have value when an economy goes down the toilet:

Guns, Ammo, Food, Water, Sex

Gold while now is percieved as a luxury, will be worthless, because it doesn't do anything. In a time where finding your next meal is the most important aspect of your day, gold is useless. you can't eat it. Bob with some extra food is going to keep his food unless he can get 1 of the above mentioned 5 items.

You can invest in gold, I'll invest in guns. Because if I have a gun and you don't, I also have what you have. If you're nice I'll just kill you, if you put up a fight, I'll make you suffer.*


*This is not directly intended or targeted at any one, it is a hypothetical situation between a survivorist and a gold horder.

What about property? I thought the property owners made out the best during the depression.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Hacp
What about property? I thought the property owners made out the best during the depression.

Depends on if you're talking depression or apocalypse. If we're talking Mad Max, then land is only worth something if it has guns, ammo, food, water or sex on it.

Even if we're talking depression, most people don't own their land, they're mortgaged heavily and lots of those people would lose it in a depression.

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
http://turnerradionetwork.blog...tress-test-reults.html

Well, they dont show the actual results (unless I didn't see them) but the salient points they highlight are:

1) Of the top nineteen (19) banks in the nation, sixteen (16) are already technically insolvent. (Based upon the ?alternative more adverse? scenario which had a 3.3 percent contraction of the U.S. Economy in 2009, accompanied by 8.9 percent unemployment, followed by 0.5 percent growth of the U.S. Economy but a 10.3 percent jobless in 2010.)

2) Of the 16 banks that are already technically insolvent, not even one can withstand any disruption of cash flow at all or any further deterioration in non-paying loans. (Without further government injections of cash)

3) If any two of the 16 insolvent banks go under, they will totally wipe out all remaining FDIC insurance funding.

4) Of the top 19 banks in the nation, the top five (5) largest banks are under capitalized so dangerously, there is serious doubt about their ability to continue as ongoing businesses.

5) Five large U.S. banks have credit exposure related to their derivatives trading that exceeds their capital, with four in particular - JPMorgan Chase, Goldman Sachs, HSBC Bank America and Citibank - taking especially large risks.

6) Bank of America`s total credit exposure to derivatives was 179 percent of its risk-based capital; Citibank`s was 278 percent; JPMorgan Chase`s, 382 percent; and HSBC America`s, 550 percent. It gets even worse: Goldman Sachs began reporting as a commercial bank, revealing an alarming total credit exposure of 1,056 percent, or more than ten times its capital! (HSBC is NOT in the top 19 banks undergoing a stress test, but is mentioned in the report as an aside because of its risk capital exposure to derivatives)

7) Not only are there serious questions about whether or not JPMorgan Chase, Goldman Sachs,Citibank, Wells Fargo, Sun Trust Bank, HSBC Bank USA, can continue in business, more than 1,800 regional and smaller institutions are at risk of failure despite government bailouts!






Do you trust these guys to have the right info? Or are they tinfoil hat wearing blowhards?

And yet Emperor Goldman keeps posting billions of dollars in profits every year...

Emperor Goldman and 1,800 other banks destined to fail?
I'd say they're blowing smoke.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: bob4432
shit, and i didn't buy gold when i could have got it for $480/oz

Gold will be just as worthless as cash if the economy tanks.
There are 5 things that will have value when an economy goes down the toilet:

Guns, Ammo, Food, Water, Sex

Gold while now is percieved as a luxury, will be worthless, because it doesn't do anything. In a time where finding your next meal is the most important aspect of your day, gold is useless. you can't eat it. Bob with some extra food is going to keep his food unless he can get 1 of the above mentioned 5 items.

You can invest in gold, I'll invest in guns. Because if I have a gun and you don't, I also have what you have. If you're nice I'll just kill you, if you put up a fight, I'll make you suffer.*


*This is not directly intended or targeted at any one, it is a hypothetical situation between a survivorist and a gold horder.

i never said i wasn't armed w/ your other "essentials" taken care of....

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: bob4432
shit, and i didn't buy gold when i could have got it for $480/oz

Gold will be just as worthless as cash if the economy tanks.
There are 5 things that will have value when an economy goes down the toilet:

Guns, Ammo, Food, Water, Sex

Gold while now is percieved as a luxury, will be worthless, because it doesn't do anything. In a time where finding your next meal is the most important aspect of your day, gold is useless. you can't eat it. Bob with some extra food is going to keep his food unless he can get 1 of the above mentioned 5 items.

You can invest in gold, I'll invest in guns. Because if I have a gun and you don't, I also have what you have. If you're nice I'll just kill you, if you put up a fight, I'll make you suffer.*


*This is not directly intended or targeted at any one, it is a hypothetical situation between a survivorist and a gold horder.

What about property? I thought the property owners made out the best during the depression.

if it was truely theirs and not a mortgage. my wife's great aunt (i think it was her great aunt, maybe great, great aunt??) did well in the depression because she had the $$ and income sources to be able to buy out people from the banks during the depression, and then would rent it back to the people that the banks were going to kick out on the street. i don't know all the specifics but this was the summary of it.

 

[jman19]

Sorry, this one doesn't pass the sniff test.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Genx87

And when one buys gold do they recieve gold in the weight they bought? If not then if the world tanks people wont have any gold either as the people who actually have the gold that was bought on paper horde it and tell everybody to go fly a kite with a hole in it when they come to collect.

That is why you buy Krugerrand.
They don't have a money value on the coin.
Instead they are stamped with the weight in gold of the coin. So they can be traded anywhere in the world just like bars of gold.

Current price is about $940 each.

The world's first gold bullion coin minted for investment, the Krugerrand is believed to be the most widely owned bullion coin in the world. Each coin contains one full ounce of .999 gold. In contrast to other popular gold bullion coins, the Krugerrand has no stated face value engraved on the coin. Instead, the coin is designed to be valued soley by its metal content.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Originally posted by: sciwizam

Originally posted by: Jeff7

A guest on The Daily Show recently gave her explanation of it. She spoke of an old boom&bust cycle that the economy followed. To stop this, regulations were put in place. Slowly, the regulations were quietly unraveled, in order to divert more tasty profits back to the top. Now we're getting to watch the biggest bust in history implode on itself, while those responsible for it watch from a very safe and wealthy distance.

You are referring to Elizabeth Warren, Head of the Congressional Oversight Panel, regarding TARP funds.

Just saw that episode last night on hulu. Was hoping to find some sort of discussion on it somewhere. Some of the things she said were quite alarming, like how we only got 2/3rds of the stock we paid for.. which then immediately dropped even further in value.

Still, like Jon says towards the end of the interview regarding her final point, there is SOMETHING to be hopeful for. Fairly soon there's going to be a turning point, where things either go back to the nice, stable, appropriately regulated system we had following the great depression, or we just go balls to the wall deregulation which.. well, might not be the wisest thing, but I'm sure it'd be fun to watch (the same way that train derailments are fun to watch)

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Fern
So the Obama admin has announced that the results are going to be publically released.

But I've heard the Treasury (Obama admin) express fear fear that banks who needed and took TARP would be 'punished' in the stock market, new business etc, thus they 'encouraged' all big banks to take it. Same with the fear of allowing some banks to pay it back early.

Now how the h3ll does one reconcile these two completley opposite positions? WTH is going on here?

What's gonna happen to the stock price (and any new business opportunities) of banks whose 'poor' stress tests results are publicized?

Anybody else see this as irrational or inconsistent?

Fern

Even if this leak is false, a good deal of the major banks will have poor results. They were stupid to do this publicaly. Because its a lose-lose situation.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Fern
So the Obama admin has announced that the results are going to be publically released.

But I've heard the Treasury (Obama admin) express fear fear that banks who needed and took TARP would be 'punished' in the stock market, new business etc, thus they 'encouraged' all big banks to take it. Same with the fear of allowing some banks to pay it back early.

Now how the h3ll does one reconcile these two completley opposite positions? WTH is going on here?

What's gonna happen to the stock price (and any new business opportunities) of banks whose 'poor' stress tests results are publicized?

Anybody else see this as irrational or inconsistent?

Fern

Even if this leak is false, a good deal of the major banks will have poor results. They were stupid to do this publicaly. Because its a lose-lose situation.

unless it turns out that most of the banks are in better shape than we thought

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: nixium

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

You can invest in gold, I'll invest in guns. Because if I have a gun and you don't, I also have what you have. If you're nice I'll just kill you, if you put up a fight, I'll make you suffer.*


*This is not directly intended or targeted at any one, it is a hypothetical situation between a survivorist and a gold horder.

You're a fvking lunatic.

Someone needs to give you a psychiatric evaluation and take your guns away from you.

Don't worry. I'm sure he's the type that likes to talk but couldn't hit a barn with a 30.06 if he were standing next to it.