Bang for my bucks

[Modeps]

I built a new machine back in early 2008 and it's held up reasonably well. Thing is, it's wont against Battlefield 3 probably this fall. There are plenty of games that chug currently so I want to plan an upgrade with the littlest amount of cash I can.

Here's my current build. Can I get away with just upgrading the CPU and video card, or do I need a whole new build?

- Intel Pentium E2200 Allendale 2.2GHz 1MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor BX80557E2200
- Patriot Extreme Performance 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model PDC24G6400ELK
- HITACHI Deskstar T7K500 HDT725050VLA360 (0A33437) 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive -Bare Drive
- Palit NE/9600T+0152 GeForce 9600 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
- GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX All Solid Capacitor Intel Motherboard

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

I built a new machine back in early 2008 and it's held up reasonably well. Thing is, it's wont against Battlefield 3 probably this fall. There are plenty of games that chug currently so I want to plan an upgrade with the littlest amount of cash I can.

Here's my current build. Can I get away with just upgrading the CPU and video card, or do I need a whole new build?

- Intel Pentium E2200 Allendale 2.2GHz 1MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor BX80557E2200
- Patriot Extreme Performance 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model PDC24G6400ELK
- HITACHI Deskstar T7K500 HDT725050VLA360 (0A33437) 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive -Bare Drive
- Palit NE/9600T+0152 GeForce 9600 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
- GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX All Solid Capacitor Intel Motherboard

What's your budget? That's the most important question here.

 

[Modeps]

What's your budget? That's the most important question here.

Considering my wife just gave birth to our third, I'd like to keep it within a couple hundred bucks. So, min $200, max $400.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Considering my wife just gave birth to our third, I'd like to keep it within a couple hundred bucks. So, min $200, max $400.

For $200 you can upgrade what you currently have with much faster components. For $400, you can upgrade to a newer platform that is more future-proof.

For $200, you can get a used Core 2 Quad Q6600 and a new GeForce GTS 450. The GTS 450 should be a HUGE upgrade from the 9600GT you currently have, around 2x faster. The Core 2 Quad Q6600 is still a very fast CPU and will be much more suited for games from 2009 to now as most take advantage of three or four cores, not to mention it should be a decent OCer as long as you have a good cooler.

For $400, you can get a platform upgrade, a more future-proof system and faster parts. Since from the looks of it you use it for gaming most of the time and you have a tight budget, I'm gonna recommend you get a Core i3 2100, G.Skill 4GB DDR3 1600MHz CAS 8, a GeForce GTX 460, and an AsRock H61M-VS motherboard.

I guess the only problem with the more expensive build is that it'd probably be nowhere near as twice as fast for 2x more money, and the motherboard is a step down from what you have. It will probably support Ivy Bridge, though, and both the CPU and GPU are a good amount faster. Your choice, but if I was on a really tight budget, I'd go for the first $200 build and if you don't have a good CPU cooler, then you can get a Corsair A50. It has better heat dissipation than the Hyper 212+, and it's also quieter. That, and it's only $20. You should be able to take the Q6600 to at least 3GHz. If you want to go all-out, then go for the second build. Both of them should be able to play BF3 just fine.

 

[DesiPower]

I think you can go with a core 2 quad like q8400 and HD 6870, that will run around ~$350... thats the best you can do for under 400. That will be a good upgrade, but not a good "bang for your buck".

 

[DesiPower]

LOL_Wut_Axel has good suggestion, I would like to recommend a Z68 instead of H61... that will provide more future proofing. Atleast a P67 as OP will have to use GUP anyways...

Here's a possible config

ASRock Z68 - 115
i3 2105 - 140
2 x 2GB RAM - $35
Palit NE5X460EFHD02 GeForce GTX 460 SE - $100 (after MIR)
TOTAL - $390

You can stick in 2 more stick of RAM anytime later, chipset will support all the way upto 2600k and maybe even ivy bridge! virtu should help out the GPU and you can upgrade it whenever you want anyways... will support SSD caching too. Good bang for buck + decent future proof IMHO...

 

[tynopik]

overclock the CPU to ~3Ghz
upgrade the video card

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

LOL_Wut_Axel has good suggestion, I would like to recommend a Z68 instead of H61... that will provide more future proofing. Atleast a P67 as OP will have to use GUP anyways...

Here's a possible config

ASRock Z68 - 115
i3 2105 - 140
2 x 2GB RAM - $35
Palit NE5X460EFHD02 GeForce GTX 460 SE - $100 (after MIR)
TOTAL - $390

Pretty good, though I don't really count MIRs into the equation.

Another alternative that's overall faster, but consumes more power:

Phenom II X4 955: $120
AsRock M3A770DE: $60
G.Skill Ripjaws 4GB DDR3 1600MHz CAS 8: $45
EVGA GTX 460: $160

$385; $365 with MIR.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

overclock the CPU to ~3Ghz
upgrade the video card

Dual-thread CPUs are not enough for modern games at good settings. He'll get a lot more FPS with a Quad-Core, even a cheap Q6600.

 

[tynopik]

Dual-thread CPUs are not enough for modern games at good settings. He'll get a lot more FPS with a Quad-Core, even a cheap Q6600.

it depends on what settings you're comfortable with

my proposal has the advantage of being incremental. if you decide the CPU isn't powerful enough, you haven't wasted any money and it's still possible to upgrade

but do an overclock and new video card first and see where you are

on the other hand, if you don't need to upgrade till this fall, then wait till this fall to buy anything

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

400$ for BF3 , tough decisions. BF2 was a hog @ 1650x1080

Start lookin for a used GPU. I recently sold my 5870 for ~ 150$

I would get:

2500K
Z68
4Gb
for a platform

 

[Modeps]

Sounds like most of you recommend going with a new platform instead of just a simple upgrade. In that case, I should probably wait until BF3 is closer right? To see prices drop a bit?

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Sounds like most of you recommend going with a new platform instead of just a simple upgrade. In that case, I should probably wait until BF3 is closer right? To see prices drop a bit?

Sorry to say, but prices are unlikely to drop. People are recommending a new platform only because you said you had a max budget of $400. If all you want to spend is $200, by all means buy a Q6600 and a GTS 450. That should be enough to play it at the minimum at Medium settings and 1680x1050.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I've got a Q8200 NIB, PM me if interested. At 400FSB (should be doable with your board), it overclocks to 2.8. Should be an easy overclock, probably won't even have to touch the vcore.

(Sold one to a friend of mine with an EP45-DS3R, we clocked it to 450FSB 3.15Ghz. Your P35 mobo probably won't do 450FSB.)

 

[Modeps]

Sorry to say, but prices are unlikely to drop. People are recommending a new platform only because you said you had a max budget of $400. If all you want to spend is $200, by all means buy a Q6600 and a GTS 450. That should be enough to play it at the minimum at Medium settings and 1680x1050.

Minimum and medium don't appeal to me. How much am I going to need to spend for high/ultra?

 

[Puppies04]

Get an i5 quad, if you dont have the money now wait until you do, throwing $200 into your existing build might get you another 12 months if you don't mind running at less than max settings (which you do) but you aren't going to recoup that $200 further down the line. Spending a little extra on a decent CPU and GPU combo (not too sure on American prices but i would assume $200 each) will last you a lot longer.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Minimum and medium don't appeal to me. How much am I going to need to spend for high/ultra?

Just get the next best thing: the GTX 460/Radeon HD 6850. That will undoubtedly be able to play at least in High at 1680x1050 and 1920x1080. If you get a Q6600 and OC, it'll still slightly bottleneck both of them, so I'd recommend you get a new platform for the new card and perhaps get something that's a little more future proof and with comparable features, not to mention more powerful. I think this will be the best compromise, but you'll have to pay for it:

Gigabyte GA-Z68X-UD3-B3: $140
Intel Core i3 2100: $125
G.Skill Ripjaws 4GB DDR3 1600MHz CAS 8: $45
EVGA GTX 460 1GB: $160

Total: $470

If you go for a lower-end motherboard, you'll lose SLI support, and you'll be skimping some features. That means the next time you want to upgrade you'll have to throw out the GTX 460, which wouldn't be a very economically sound decision. If you want more features by then, you'll also want to change the mobo if you get a lower-end one. The RAM, I don't recommend people to go for cheap generic RAM unless on a very tight budget. It's just $10 more and it'll give you higher frequency and tighter timings, not to mention you can OC further. The GTX 460, as you probably know, is an extremely good OCer. On stock voltage you can go from the stock 675/1350/3600MHz to 850/1700/4200MHz and temps will only go from 65C to 70C at full load. You'll get performance on par with a stock GTX 470 at those speeds with much lower power consumption.

 

[mfenn]

Minimum and medium don't appeal to me. How much am I going to need to spend for high/ultra?

Most people in this thread are really skimping on the GPU IMHO. It's the number 1 most important factor in getting good framerates.

While we don't really know the exact requirements of BF3 (seeing as it hasn't been released yet), a GTX 460 is barely sufficient to run BC2 on maximum quality details and still get decent framerates. You'll probably be looking at GTX 560 Ti or 6950 class ($200-250) to get there for BF3.

So, I'd say you're looking at (at mimimum):
i3 2100 + GA-Z68A-D3 combo $220 - for the love of God, don't spend more on a mobo than the CPU
G.Skill DDR3 1333 4GB $33 - can easily upgrade to 8GB later
GTX 560 Ti $200 AR
Total: $453 AR

 

[mfenn]

It's just $10 more and it'll give you higher frequency and tighter timings, not to mention you can OC further.

This is just plain wrong for 2 reasons:
(a) Sandy Bridge runs the memory clock asynchronously from the base clock
(b) You can't overclock the i3 anyway

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

This is just plain wrong for 2 reasons:
(a) Sandy Bridge runs the memory clock asynchronously from the base clock
(b) You can't overclock the i3 anyway

Yeah, and your point is? The RAM is only $10 more than the generic one and will have higher quality ICs and is something you'd want to use in a future build.

A GTX 460 is "barely enough" to play Battlefield: Bad Company 2 at max settings? Really?

50 avg. FPS completely maxed out with 4X AA at 1920x1200. Same performance as the GTX 470 pictured here on a stock voltage OC. Go spread your misinformation elsewhere.

CPU plays an extremely important role in delivering good frame-rates, as does the GPU. There's no way I'm gonna tell the OP to step down to an SB Pentium so he can get a Radeon HD 6870 while negating all performance outside of gaming, not to mention most games are taking advantage of three and four threads, especially the Battlefield series.

Also, counting rebates as if they were the final price is dishonest.

 

[mfenn]

Yeah, and your point is? The RAM is only $10 more than the generic one and will have higher quality ICs and is something you'd want to use in a future build.

My point is that your assertion that you can OC Sandy Bridge further with DDR3 1600 is wrong.

A GTX 460 is "barely enough" to play Battlefield: Bad Company 2 at max settings? Really?

50 avg. FPS completely maxed out with 4X AA at 1920x1200. Same performance as the GTX 470 pictured here on a stock voltage OC. Go spread your misinformation elsewhere.

Refer to a better benchmark please.

CPU plays an extremely important role in delivering good frame-rates, as does the GPU. There's no way I'm gonna tell the OP to step down to an SB Pentium so he can get a Radeon HD 6870 while negating all performance outside of gaming, not to mention most games are taking advantage of three and four threads, especially the Battlefield series.

Nice strawman there. Did I ever say the CPU wasn't important? No, I said the GPU is the most important. Notice how I used the same CPU that you did?

Also, counting rebates as if they were the final price is dishonest.

Notice those two letters "AR"? Guess what they mean? Notice how I provided a link to the exact parts?

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

My point is that your assertion that you can OC Sandy Bridge further with DDR3 1600 is wrong.



Refer to a better benchmark please.



Nice strawman there. Did I ever say the CPU wasn't important? No, I said the GPU is the most important. Notice how I used the same CPU that you did?



Notice those two letters "AR"? Guess what they mean? Notice how I provided a link to the exact parts?

I never said you can OC Sandy Bridge further with higher speed RAM. Go read back what I said.

The way you worded it sounded like if you said the GPU was the most important thing in all cases, which to me it's not. Perhaps you meant something else.

It's still dishonest to mention rebate price and not final price when bought upfront. You used the same CPU, but that GTX 560 Ti would push the budget higher. The combo does bring some nice savings, though, and he should get the GTX 460 and not the GTX 560 Ti. My main gripe with the GTX 560 Ti is that in reality it's only 10% faster than the GTX 460 clock-for-clock, so it's not a significant improvement unless you compare the max safe OC with over-volting of the GTX 460 (around 950/1900/4400MHz) vs the GTX 560 Ti (1050/2100/4500MHz). Then you can get a difference in performance of 15-20%, but at that point the GTX 560 Ti is around the same speed as the GTX 570 and the GTX 460 the same speed as the GTX 560 Ti.

 

[mfenn]

I never said you can OC Sandy Bridge further with higher speed RAM. Go read back what I said.

Not trying to be argumentative here, but when you said, "not to mention you can OC further," where you referring to memory or CPU? Because in the Core 2 and 1st generation Core, people usually recommended getting better memory so that you could push the FSB/BCLK higher.

The way you worded it sounded like if you said the GPU was the most important thing in all cases, which to me it's not. Perhaps you meant something else.

Fair enough.

It's still dishonest to mention rebate price and not final price when bought upfront.

I disagree here. Dishonest in my opinion would be not mentioning that there are rebates at all.

You used the same CPU, but that GTX 560 Ti would push the budget higher. The combo does bring some nice savings, though, and he should get the GTX 460 and not the GTX 560 Ti. My main gripe with the GTX 560 Ti is that in reality it's only 10% faster than the GTX 460 clock-for-clock, so it's not a significant improvement unless you compare the max safe OC with over-volting of the GTX 460 (around 950/1900/4400MHz) vs the GTX 560 Ti (1050/2100/4500MHz). Then you can get a difference in performance of 15-20%, but at that point the GTX 560 Ti is around the same speed as the GTX 570 and the GTX 460 the same speed as the GTX 560 Ti.

I think that basing a recommendation on overclocked performance isn't the best idea. Not all parts will overclock the same.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this point and the previous because they are more matters of philosophy and not hard and fast technical questions that can be answered definitively.

 

[Modeps]

If it helps, I wasn't really planning on OCing, unless it was something as simple as going into the BIOS. I'd rather be stable than fast.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Not trying to be argumentative here, but when you said, "not to mention you can OC further," where you referring to memory or CPU? Because in the Core 2 and 1st generation Core, people usually recommended getting better memory so that you could push the FSB/BCLK higher.

I'm mentioning OCing the Memory, not the CPU.

I disagree here. Dishonest in my opinion would be not mentioning that there are rebates at all.

You still have to pay full price upfront, which is why it's more important to mention full price and then, if you want, mention AR price. Not everyone fills rebates, but everyone has to pay full upfront costs.

I think that basing a recommendation on overclocked performance isn't the best idea. Not all parts will overclock the same.

I wasn't basing it on over-volted performance. I was just saying that at the same clocks the GTX 560 Ti would be 10% faster, and was trying to get to that if a game is unplayable on a GTX 460, the GTX 560 Ti wouldn't really solve the situation. Since you want to be safe, virtually all GTX 460s hit 825/1650/4000MHz, and GTX 560 Tis 900/1800/4100MHz. I guess my main point is that the reference GTX 460 comes with an extremely low 675MHz Core clock speed when it should have been launched at 750MHz. Taking a safe OC for both the GTX 560 Ti will be around 15% faster.