Baltimore PD, no racial bias.... Not really

[ivwshane]

I'm surprised no one has posted this.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/08/1...cathing-report-on-baltimore-police-force.html

The DOJ finished their investigation and just like they found in Ferguson, they found systemic racial bias in the Baltimore police force.

I've heard that one man was stopped 400 times in a year (4 years) and was never once cited for anything.

For the police apologists on this board I have to ask; if this kind of thing happened to you, what would you view of the police be? How do you think that would affect how you interacted with the police?





Fox news link for those who find other news sources icky.

 

[MrA79]

They're being paid to find racial bias, and when they can't find it to manufacture it. Anyone who believes the DOJ is fair or unbiased is either delusional or black.

Your sig is all too appropriate. You cross the line of what we allow too often. Enjoy a week off.

Perknose
Forum Director

 

[dank69]

They're being paid to find racial bias, and when they can't find it to manufacture it. Anyone who believes the DOJ is fair or unbiased is either delusional or black.

I'd be surprised if this post and your other recent post aren't enough to earn you a well deserved vacation.

 

[ivwshane]

They're being paid to find racial bias, and when they can't find it to manufacture it. Anyone who believes the DOJ is fair or unbiased is either delusional or black.

You would think that after being on these forums for so many years I could anticipate the type of response I'd get but I guess guess let my LBD get the better of me.

So mra79, can you please show us any of the findings the DOJ found that would be indicative of bias and worthy of dismissing the entire investigation?

 

[JSt0rm]

They're being paid to find racial bias, and when they can't find it to manufacture it. Anyone who believes the DOJ is fair or unbiased is either delusional or black.

You have a weird world view. Tell us more.

 

[PokerGuy]

I have very little faith in the DoJ under this administration, we've already seen how heavily politicized it is. That said, I don't think their findings are necessarily out of line with reality either. The DoJ has done so much to ruin their credibility to where now one has to treat it like the main stream media and take everything they say with a giant grain of salt.
More than likely it's a combination, the DoJ on a political mission meets corrupt police dept with racist and abusive elements.

 

[Zaap]

Just something I'm curious about. Nothing to do with if there is or isn't police bias and such..


It's about these cases of people being pulled over like 400 times and similar ridiculous amounts.

I'm curious just WHAT exactly is the conspiracy with that?

Why would even the most racist police department on the planet just continually pull the same person over, multiples of hundreds of times, but not cite the person with anything? In light of the fact that others of the same minority (probably the MAJORITY of them) don't themselves experience any such excessive stops- WHY certain individuals?

IS there just something particularly "We HAVE to single that guy out!" about the person?

Even if they had it out for the person, WHY no citations for anything?

I'm asking this question (and don't expect to get any kind of answer, because it's probably unknowable without actual details of whatever the real situation is) because in contrast to other charges of rampant bias and racism, that particular example makes no sense to me.

I don't understand why for ANY reason, racism or otherwise, the same person would just be continually pulled over and stopped but never cited- unless there was a **personal** (notice that's not the same thing as racially biased) vendetta against that person by the PD or the person was in some way suspected to be committing illegal acts, but manages never to be caught red handed.

It makes NO sense that it's just random racism.

 

[Commodus]

They're being paid to find racial bias, and when they can't find it to manufacture it. Anyone who believes the DOJ is fair or unbiased is either delusional or black.

Gotta be amazed at people who can stare truth in the face and still try to maintain a lie. That'd be you.

Who'd both have the money and desire to pay the DOJ to invent racial bias? Those eeeeeevil grassroots activists from Black Lives Matter? Change.org? I don't think so.

It's easier to pretend that bias doesn't exist than to acknowledge it and do something about it. Besides, even if you believe it's all a vast conspiracy, what are the consequences? Oh heavens, police may stop strangling and shooting unarmed black people, or searching them for no justifiable reason.

 

[Bitek]

From the parts of the report I've read, it's clear the BPD and the States Attorney's office need to suffer mass firings.

Systemic criminality, corruption & cover ups.
Fire them all and give their pensions to charity.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Sounds like the real problem is over-eager cops willing to stop and search people over nothing, pretty common in left-wing gun control cities (see NYC as well). 84% of stops being of black people does not say much when 63% of the population is black and the difference could probably be explained by the fact that blacks on average commit certain crimes at a rate higher than any other ethnicity in the USA.

 

[CitizenKain]

Just something I'm curious about. Nothing to do with if there is or isn't police bias and such..


It's about these cases of people being pulled over like 400 times and similar ridiculous amounts.

I'm curious just WHAT exactly is the conspiracy with that?

Why would even the most racist police department on the planet just continually pull the same person over, multiples of hundreds of times, but not cite the person with anything? In light of the fact that others of the same minority (probably the MAJORITY of them) don't themselves experience any such excessive stops- WHY certain individuals?

2 reasons: They are fishing for money and they want to remind minorities who is in charge.

 

[Zaap]

2 reasons: They are fishing for money and they want to remind minorities who is in charge.

Makes no logical sense.

If that were the case, every minority would experience the same frequency of stops, not just select people here and there with excessive stops of multiple 100's.

To be stopped 400 times a year, that's someone being pulled over every single day, and sometimes multiple times per day.

That's something PERSONAL going on.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Isn't it usually a paperwork kind of deal? Let's say Bob is a trouble-maker and probably homeless. He's out shitting on a sidewalk or yelling drunkenly or stealing Doritos bags from the nearest convenience store. Police get a call, and oh great, it's fucking Bob again. They have to report the stop for official reasons, but the effort of hauling his disgusting ass into the back of the car where he might piss or puke all over the place, filing additional paperwork required for an actual arrest, and knowing he'll spend just a few days in county jail regardless because the prisons are filled with drug dealers makes the officer decide it's not worth the effort. And so, the cycle continues.

 

[MixMasterTang]

Makes no logical sense.

If that were the case, every minority would experience the same frequency of stops, not just select people here and there with excessive stops of multiple 100's.

To be stopped 400 times a year, that's someone being pulled over every single day, and sometimes multiple times per day.

That's something PERSONAL going on.

I would guess that individual often drives through areas known for drug dealings and meets a particular stereotype that the police look for.

 

[Zaap]

Isn't it usually a paperwork kind of deal? Let's say Bob is a trouble-maker and probably homeless. He's out shitting on a sidewalk or yelling drunkenly or stealing Doritos bags from the nearest convenience store. Police get a call, and oh great, it's fucking Bob again.

In any kind of logical likelihood, in the case of a person being stopped multiple times per day, 100's of times per year, it screams that it's EXACTLY a situation where the person is actually attracting negative police attention some sort of way.

Even viewed from the assumption that sure, it's 100% racially motivated, such examples make no sense- it wouldn't be worth anyone's freakin' time to stop the same person over and over and over again and not actually cite them with anything. A much better use of 'reminding minorities of who's in charge' or whatever other conspiracy, would be to expend all that time and effort across a random and broad range of people, not just single out one person.

I've seen this a few times before and this time it just made me wonder- this subject comes up and there's someone saying "And this one guy was stopped xxx times in a year...!" as if that's the quintessential case of how police would terrorize minorities.

It sounds more like a person constantly in trouble from their own actions, and frankly, being cut more SLACK than anything else, as you say, probably from cops sick of dealing with the person. Every single fucking day, the same guy? Just for shits and giggles? It doesn't pass a real world smell test to me.

I'm not saying there aren't problems, I don't know. Just maybe time for a new posterchild scenario for it is all.

 

[elitejp]

Makes no logical sense.

If that were the case, every minority would experience the same frequency of stops, not just select people here and there with excessive stops of multiple 100's.

To be stopped 400 times a year, that's someone being pulled over every single day, and sometimes multiple times per day.

That's something PERSONAL going on.

Zaap, your thinking things rationally. The only way someone gets pulled over or stopped for questioning 400times in a year is if the police have a constant tail on this person. This has nothing to do with racism. This is just a clickbait study thats purposely out trying to prove something.

Im sure some people in the police force are racists just like there are racists black people. But the media for some reason wants to start a war and is making issues where there are none.

 

[elitejp]

They're being paid to find racial bias, and when they can't find it to manufacture it. Anyone who believes the DOJ is fair or unbiased is either delusional or black.

Your sig is all too appropriate. You cross the line of what we allow too often. Enjoy a week off.

Perknose
Forum Director

This gets banned.

2 reasons: They are fishing for money and they want to remind minorities who is in charge.

This gets a slide

Thumbs up

The only permissible venue for commenting on a moderator action is in Mod Discussions.

Perknose
Forum Director

 

[Bitek]

Sounds like the real problem is over-eager cops willing to stop and search people over nothing, pretty common in left-wing gun control cities (see NYC as well). 84% of stops being of black people does not say much when 63% of the population is black and the difference could probably be explained by the fact that blacks on average commit certain crimes at a rate higher than any other ethnicity in the USA.

So cops routinely stopping blacks for no reason, beating them up, calling them ni%-%-s and making monkey noises is due to... "left-wing gun control."

But hey, what can you do, they are prone to criminality.


Wow. Uncle work on the BPD?

 

[ivwshane]

This really should be a wake up to those that think the problem is black people. We have an issue in this country, let's address it because we should hold law enforcement to higher standards. Then, if nothing changes, go ahead and blame black people. Until then, we should all be fighting and demanding our police force treat everyone equally. I would also really like to find a way for good police officers to report bad officers in a way that doesn't jeopardize their safety, job, or their identity and is actually effective.

 

[retrospooty]

They're being paid to find racial bias, and when they can't find it to manufacture it. Anyone who believes the DOJ is fair or unbiased is either delusional or black.

Your sig is all too appropriate. You cross the line of what we allow too often. Enjoy a week off.

Perknose
Forum Director

Not that I agree with what you said, but that shouldn't even be the point. Regardless of race, cops need to stop killing unarmed people unless being directly attacked. There is far too much of that going on whether race is an issue behind it or not.

 

[Cozarkian]

I've heard that one man was stopped 400 times in a year (4 years) and was never once cited for anything.

Where did you hear that? I don't see it in the article you linked, which cites the worst example as over 30 times in less than four years

 

[ivwshane]

Where did you hear that? I don't see it in the article you linked, which cites the worst example as over 30 times in less than four years

Yeah I'm pretty sure I was wrong on the amount of stops and over how long the period of time was, I should have included a "?" next to it.

 

[Cozarkian]

Yeah I'm pretty sure I was wrong on the amount of stops and over how long the period of time was, I should have included a "?" next to it.

Fair enough. I just wasn't sure if there was another source.

And while I don't think race explains 100% of the discrepancy it does clearly appear to be an actual direct factor. It also is likely an indirect factor as it relates to cultural and socio-economic factors that also likely play a role.

 

[Rhonda the Sly]

Sounds like the real problem is over-eager cops willing to stop and search people over nothing, pretty common in left-wing gun control cities (see NYC as well). 84% of stops being of black people does not say much when 63% of the population is black and the difference could probably be explained by the fact that blacks on average commit certain crimes at a rate higher than any other ethnicity in the USA.

I don't know, man. It looks pretty bad.

BPD’s pedestrian stops are concentrated on a small portion of Baltimore residents. BPD made roughly 44 percent of its stops in two small, predominantly African-American districts that contain only 11 percent of the City’s population. Consequently, hundreds of individuals—nearly all of them African American—were stopped on at least 10 separate occasions from 2010– 2015. Indeed, seven African-American men were stopped more than 30 times during this period.

"BPD’s stops often lack reasonable suspicion. Our review of incident reports and interviews with officers and community members found that officers regularly approach individuals standing or walking on City sidewalks to detain and question them and check for outstanding warrants, despite lacking reasonable suspicion to do so. Only 3.7 percent of pedestrian stops resulted in officers issuing a citation or making an arrest. And, as noted below, many of those arrested based upon pedestrian stops had their charges dismissed upon initial review by either supervisors at BPD’s Central Booking or local prosecutors.

BPD officers approach individuals standing lawfully on sidewalks in front of public housing complexes or private businesses and arrest them unless the individuals are able to “justify” their presence to the officers’ satisfaction.

If you recall, this practice was mirrored in the Ferguson PD - they called it a "ped check."

This incident is also consistent with a pattern of suspicionless, legally unsupportable stops we found documented in FPD’s records, described by FPD as “ped checks” or “pedestrian checks.” Though at times officers use the term to refer to reasonable-suspicion-based pedestrian stops, or “Terry stops,” they often use it when stopping a person with no objective, articulable suspicion. For example, one night in December 2013, officers went out and “ped. checked those wandering around” in Ferguson’s apartment complexes. In another case, officers responded to a call about a man selling drugs by stopping a group of six African-American youths who, due to their numbers, did not match the facts of the call. The youths were “detained and ped checked.” Officers invoke the term “ped check” as though it has some unique constitutional legitimacy. It does not. Officers may not detain a person, even briefly, without articulable reasonable suspicion. Terry, 392 U.S. at 21. To the extent that the words “ped check” suggest otherwise, the terminology alone is dangerous because it threatens to confuse officers’ understanding of the law. Moreover, because FPD does not track or analyze pedestrian Terry stops—whether termed “ped checks” or something else—in any reliable way, they are especially susceptible to discriminatory or otherwise unlawful use.

Then you have to consider how useful and appropriate the stops are:

BPD disproportionately searches African Americans during stops. BPD searched African Americans more frequently during pedestrian and vehicle stops, even though searches of African Americans were less likely to discover contraband. Indeed, BPD officers found contraband twice as often when searching white individuals compared to African Americans during vehicle stops and 50 percent more often during pedestrian stops.

Unfortunately, the bias displayed was also present in Ferguson.

Data collected by the Ferguson Police Department from 2012 to 2014 shows that African Americans account for 85% of vehicle stops ... African Americans are more than twice as likely as white drivers to be searched during vehicle stops even after controlling for non-race based variables such as the reason the vehicle stop was initiated, but are found in possession of contraband 26% less often than white drivers...

Edit:

Racial disparities in BPD’s arrests are most pronounced for highly discretionary offenses: African Americans accounted for 91 percent of the 1,800 people charged solely with “failure to obey” or “trespassing”; 89 percent of the 1,350 charges for making a false statement to an officer; and 84 percent of the 6,500 people arrested for “disorderly conduct.” Moreover, booking officials and prosecutors decline charges brought against African Americans at significantly – 8 – higher rates than charges against people of other races, indicating that officers’ standards for making arrests differ by the race of the person arrested.

 

[fleshconsumed]

If you recall, this practice was mirrored in the Ferguson PD - they called it a "ped check."

I came across this http://forums.officer.com/t124330/ while googling ped check. Kind of a sad read.