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Bake or broil SSDs?

VirtualLarry

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
What happened to that discovery that flash memory could "heal" itself if heated? Where are the drives with a "bake or broil" setting, and a 1Mil. write lifespan?
 
Same reason we don't have a lot of things.
No sense of urgency.
If we needed electric cars, we'd have widespread development, sales and use of them.
 
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KingFatty said:
Is this some kind of phase change memory technology? Like based on the memristor?
Click to expand...

No, standard NAND, but with a "heater" built-in. According to the article link that was posted here, when the NAND ran out of write cycles (3000), all that had to be done was heat the NAND to a certain temp briefly, and it would be "healed", and good for another 3000 cycles.

It sounded like very promising technology, to give us nearly limitless writes on NAND.

Perhaps the industry doesn't want that, they WANT SSDs to "wear out", so that they can sell us another one.

If they didn't, people could buy one of these "super NAND" SSDs, for each of their rigs, and potentially use it for the rest of their lives.
 
VirtualLarry said:
No, standard NAND, but with a "heater" built-in. According to the article link that was posted here, when the NAND ran out of write cycles (3000), all that had to be done was heat the NAND to a certain temp briefly, and it would be "healed", and good for another 3000 cycles.

It sounded like very promising technology, to give us nearly limitless writes on NAND.

Perhaps the industry doesn't want that, they WANT SSDs to "wear out", so that they can sell us another one.

If they didn't, people could buy one of these "super NAND" SSDs, for each of their rigs, and potentially use it for the rest of their lives.
Click to expand...

The hard drive industry has survived with infinite write cycles.
 
Smoblikat said:
The hard drive industry has survived with infinite write cycles.
Click to expand...
But imagine what they could potentially do to their bottom line if they could cap that?

The gaming industry is trying to make it difficult or even illegal to resell a used game. Why? Certainly not for the benefit of consumers - it's purely for their own benefit.

Unfortunately, the economic driver of competition, while generally a great boon, can also prod companies to compete on lowering the bar.
 
SSDs are already expensive and would just get even more so. Why would you add this heating tech if probably 99.9% of buyers are fine with 3000 write cycles?
 
hackerballs said:
interesting that everyone has that 3000 write cycles to talk about............My SSD says MTBF 2,000,000 hours ...........and that is just the failure, not the life........................maybe just Marketing http://ocz.com/consumer/vertex-3-sata-3-ssd/specifications
Click to expand...
Business part MBTF can often be interpreted as an expected near-term failure rate (IE, MBTF/quantity = yearly replacement expectation). Outside of that, it's mostly a number made high enough to look good, but not so high that it's obvious it hasn't come from any meaningful testing.

It makes real sense for things like brushed motors, bearings that handle unbalanced loads, capacitord, and so on, but anything as mechanically and electrically complex as a HDD or SSD...no way.
 
VirtualLarry said:
What happened to that discovery that flash memory could "heal" itself if heated? Where are the drives with a "bake or broil" setting, and a 1Mil. write lifespan?
Click to expand...

Over the last many decades, I can't remember a single invention (from memory), reportedly being invented in labs somewhere, which later hit the market.

There are all sorts of practicalities, and reasons why.

They often take so long to be ready for the market, that capacities/speed/reliability/low-cost of the competing ones, make it too late to sell.

There can be all sorts of technical difficulties to solve, before putting it on the market.

Huge amounts of R&D money have to be made available, somehow.

There can be huge patent issues.
E.g. The main competitor, holds on to several similar patents, and would have to agree, effectively halting/delaying proceedings.

Then there is the market.
It would probably cost more to make oven-refreshing-flash, quite possibly a substantial amount more.
So, if the market is happy to pay $100 for xx-Gb ones, standard flash SSD. Life = 10,000 erase/write cycles.

How much more would the market pay for xx-Gb flash SSD, with life = 100,000,000 erase/write cycles ?

I think most people would buy the cheaper, 10,000 life ones, so without capturing the bulk of flash sales, and with (probably) significant or huge manufacturing and R&D costs, it would be difficult to justify on business grounds.

Looking back over the years, I think I can remember when the CD was invented (just about), which did become a market success.
 
Cerb said:
Business part MBTF can often be interpreted as an expected near-term failure rate (IE, MBTF/quantity = yearly replacement expectation). Outside of that, it's mostly a number made high enough to look good, but not so high that it's obvious it hasn't come from any meaningful testing.

It makes real sense for things like brushed motors, bearings that handle unbalanced loads, capacitord, and so on, but anything as mechanically and electrically complex as a HDD or SSD...no way.
Click to expand...

Not least because the mtbf has zero to do with the number of write cycles that the NAND can withstand without degrading to the point that it needs to be replaced/heated/whatever.
 
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