Bailout bill failing in House

[Bitek]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Hafen
What a bunch of bullshit. 2/3 of Republicans voted no letting this bill fail. Its was supposed to be a bipartisan effort, and instead the reps bailed on their end of the deal letting this fail and the markets crash to score political points. They thought they let the Dems just vote the thing thru and take all the political fury for passing the "wall street bailout" while they would try to claim the high road of opposing this HUGELY unpopular bill, yet comfortable the needed bill would get passed.

Now Dems come up slightly short (only 60% voted for it) and the Reps are AWOL. If only half of Reps voted for it it would have passed and both parties would be responsible for passing the hated but needed bailout. That is putting Country First, letting things go to shit for political points is Party First and that's what 2/3s of Reps and 1/3 of Dems have one.
WTF

Don't forget Pelosi's roll in it all.

What's that? Deliver 60%+ of her party to the vote?
What did House Reps, Boner, Bush and McCain do? Get 2 votes against them for every one in support?

So the Reps just thought the Dems should carry the whole ball?

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: bamacre
Two years ago...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfascZSTU4o

Man, that clip does show Peter right on. But I'd add a different view on it:

It's actually a clip between Peter and Art Laffer - of the Laffer curve, which was the basis for the Reagan propaganda on tax cutting that was discredited.

So, now we have IMO in a sense a larger referednum on the Republican/Reagan economics, as you have Art Laffer so clearly saying Peter was absolutely wrong in his predictions, saying that the economy was on such solid footing that there won't be any big problems, and even repeatedly insisting on a bet with Peter saying his 'honor' is 'on the line' on who is right.

Republicans, take a look at that clip and see who is right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UuivYdiS5w

Yep, he was spot on. Not surprised he endorses RPaul as well.

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: bamacre
Fed Pumps Further $630 Billion Into Financial System

Maybe their goal is to make the Peso look good for the first time in history.... hey we are all about records right now.

 

[ultimatebob]

Excellent... we finally have one of those amazing buying opportunities that I've been waiting for!

I think that I'm going to buy a shitload of Apple stock tomorrow while it's cheap.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: JS80
Now they can redo this crap without Acorn and special tax on wall st.

I'd heard there was already no ACORN; and there should be a special tax on Wall St. That's how it's been done before a number of times that worked well.

The problem is, the ACORN shit is already on the books due to the previous mortgage relief bill. The Dems wanted to pile on more for ACORN, the GOP wants the previous provisions in the other law yanked.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: JS80
Now they can redo this crap without Acorn and special tax on wall st.

I'd heard there was already no ACORN; and there should be a special tax on Wall St. That's how it's been done before a number of times that worked well.

Looks like Acorn was dropped.

Anyone have a link to the bill that went up to vote?

Yes but it doesn't work. It's getting slammed.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Hafen

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Hafen
What a bunch of bullshit. 2/3 of Republicans voted no letting this bill fail. Its was supposed to be a bipartisan effort, and instead the reps bailed on their end of the deal letting this fail and the markets crash to score political points. They thought they let the Dems just vote the thing thru and take all the political fury for passing the "wall street bailout" while they would try to claim the high road of opposing this HUGELY unpopular bill, yet comfortable the needed bill would get passed.

Now Dems come up slightly short (only 60% voted for it) and the Reps are AWOL. If only half of Reps voted for it it would have passed and both parties would be responsible for passing the hated but needed bailout. That is putting Country First, letting things go to shit for political points is Party First and that's what 2/3s of Reps and 1/3 of Dems have one.
WTF

Don't forget Pelosi's roll in it all.

What's that? Deliver 60%+ of her party to the vote?
What did House Reps, Boner, Bush and McCain do? Get 2 votes against them for every one in support?

So the Reps just thought the Dems should carry the whole ball?

The Dems are the majority party. They should be able to muster more than that. If they cannot get more than 59.whatever% how can they expect the other party to support it.

If 40% of the dems cannot support it. What fucking world do you live in that thinks a majority of the GOP would support it.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Hafen

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Hafen
What a bunch of bullshit. 2/3 of Republicans voted no letting this bill fail. Its was supposed to be a bipartisan effort, and instead the reps bailed on their end of the deal letting this fail and the markets crash to score political points. They thought they let the Dems just vote the thing thru and take all the political fury for passing the "wall street bailout" while they would try to claim the high road of opposing this HUGELY unpopular bill, yet comfortable the needed bill would get passed.

Now Dems come up slightly short (only 60% voted for it) and the Reps are AWOL. If only half of Reps voted for it it would have passed and both parties would be responsible for passing the hated but needed bailout. That is putting Country First, letting things go to shit for political points is Party First and that's what 2/3s of Reps and 1/3 of Dems have one.
WTF

Don't forget Pelosi's roll in it all.

What's that? Deliver 60%+ of her party to the vote?
What did House Reps, Boner, Bush and McCain do? Get 2 votes against them for every one in support?

So the Reps just thought the Dems should carry the whole ball?

You're either ignoring the blatantly obvious, or you have a lot of catching up to do...

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
That vid bamacre posted with Laffer and Schiffer, that is just a clear cut case of uber ownage if I've ever seen one. Look at that arrogant Laffer with his condescending tone in complete disagreement. And Peter's predictions (granted, many did make them that time, it wasn't impossible to see) all bearing out exactly as stated there. Laffer = no credibility since the 80's.

Fixed...

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Hafen

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Hafen
What a bunch of bullshit. 2/3 of Republicans voted no letting this bill fail. Its was supposed to be a bipartisan effort, and instead the reps bailed on their end of the deal letting this fail and the markets crash to score political points. They thought they let the Dems just vote the thing thru and take all the political fury for passing the "wall street bailout" while they would try to claim the high road of opposing this HUGELY unpopular bill, yet comfortable the needed bill would get passed.

Now Dems come up slightly short (only 60% voted for it) and the Reps are AWOL. If only half of Reps voted for it it would have passed and both parties would be responsible for passing the hated but needed bailout. That is putting Country First, letting things go to shit for political points is Party First and that's what 2/3s of Reps and 1/3 of Dems have one.
WTF

Don't forget Pelosi's roll in it all.

What's that? Deliver 60%+ of her party to the vote?
What did House Reps, Boner, Bush and McCain do? Get 2 votes against them for every one in support?

So the Reps just thought the Dems should carry the whole ball?

The Dems are the majority party. They should be able to muster more than that. If they cannot get more than 59% how can they expect the other party to support it.

True. So was your original response .

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
That vid bamacre posted with Laffer and Schiffer, that is just a clear cut case of uber ownage if I've ever seen one. Look at that arrogant Laffer with his condescending tone in complete disagreement. And Peter's predictions (granted, many did make them that time, it wasn't impossible to see) all bearing out exactly as stated there. Laffer = no credibility now.

Paul 2003...
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul128.html

"Ironically, by transferring the risk of a widespread mortgage default, the government increases the likelihood of a painful crash in the housing market. This is because the special privileges granted to Fannie and Freddie have distorted the housing market by allowing them to attract capital they could not attract under pure market conditions. As a result, capital is diverted from its most productive use into housing. This reduces the efficacy of the entire market and thus reduces the standard of living of all Americans.

Despite the long-term damage to the economy inflicted by the government's interference in the housing market, the government's policy of diverting capital to other uses creates a short-term boom in housing. Like all artificially-created bubbles, the boom in housing prices cannot last forever. When housing prices fall, homeowners will experience difficulty as their equity is wiped out. Furthermore, the holders of the mortgage debt will also have a loss. These losses will be greater than they would have otherwise been had government policy not actively encouraged over-investment in housing.

Perhaps the Federal Reserve can stave off the day of reckoning by purchasing GSE debt and pumping liquidity into the housing market, but this cannot hold off the inevitable drop in the housing market forever. In fact, postponing the necessary, but painful market corrections will only deepen the inevitable fall. The more people invested in the market, the greater the effects across the economy when the bubble bursts."

Now, the question is, do we listen to those who predicted this mess, or to those who created this mess?

Personally, I don't think it matters, they're gonna pass a bailout eventually anyways. I doesn't matter what we think or say. But if the Austrians are correct, well, let's just hope they aren't.

 

[Glavinsolo]

Yeah, if only Ron Paul was the candidate instead of McCain. I'm buying gold I'll put it back into cash once the dow hits 6000.

 

[Drakkon]

Theory friend and i were discussing:
At last minute Pelosi did her speech to make the bill fail. She knew the numbers on her side and the rep side. She knew if she threw a bomb it could throw the reps off. By doing so shes thrown the issue to the forefront. She brought her dems to the table...delivered 2/3rds. The republicans couldn't ban together and it makes McCain look like his party is in disarray as they said they were at the table all along. Obama gained 5 points this weekend. So long as the economy is at the forefront Obama seems to gain. By making this bill fail the first time Pelosi has given the dems a huge advantae this week. The economy becomes the discussion, the debate this week will focus on economy no doubt, and Obama if he can manage to keep keep his people in line will gain a signifigant advantage.

 

[zoiks]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Craig234
What has me concerned right now is the lack of planning I see by either party for the financial system.

I'm wondering if we may be heading to the worst combination - financial problems from the crash of the system, *and* even further consolodiation as the few by the others.

Goldman Sachs the last one standing, Citi and J. P. Morgan acquiring other banks, can we see an even higher concentration of power in Wall Street as the few bigger players are in even more of a monopolistic position to be 'too big to let go out of business' and able to dictate terms?

I'm not seeing an FDR figure who has much of a plan for how to fix both the need for the government to assist with liquidity and to address the systemic issues. Just chaos.

Thats because the most powerful Democrat is INCOMPETENT at her job...

As compared to the most powerful Repub?

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Drakkon
Theory friend and i were discussing:
At last minute Pelosi did her speech to make the bill fail. She knew the numbers on her side and the rep side. She knew if she threw a bomb it could throw the reps off. By doing so shes thrown the issue to the forefront. She brought her dems to the table...delivered 2/3rds. The republicans couldn't ban together and it makes McCain look like his party is in disarray as they said they were at the table all along. Obama gained 5 points this weekend. So long as the economy is at the forefront Obama seems to gain. By making this bill fail the first time Pelosi has given the dems a huge advantae this week. The economy becomes the discussion, the debate this week will focus on economy no doubt, and Obama if he can manage to keep keep his people in line will gain a signifigant advantage.

She brought 60% to the table. 60% of the majority party coming to the table is an ABYSMAL job for a House Speaker and Majority Leadership.

 

[OrByte]

Wow. It feels like just yesterday the fundamentals of our economy were strong.

People on wall street weren't even talking about a recession, just a slow growth period.

After Fannie and Freddie were taken over we were told that it would solve everything.


time to drink. They better lock up all the guns and ammo on Wall Street

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: zoiks

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Craig234
What has me concerned right now is the lack of planning I see by either party for the financial system.

I'm wondering if we may be heading to the worst combination - financial problems from the crash of the system, *and* even further consolodiation as the few by the others.

Goldman Sachs the last one standing, Citi and J. P. Morgan acquiring other banks, can we see an even higher concentration of power in Wall Street as the few bigger players are in even more of a monopolistic position to be 'too big to let go out of business' and able to dictate terms?

I'm not seeing an FDR figure who has much of a plan for how to fix both the need for the government to assist with liquidity and to address the systemic issues. Just chaos.

Thats because the most powerful Democrat is INCOMPETENT at her job...

As compared to the most powerful Repub?

So you blame Bush for the mess? Hes incomptent, but hes not to blame for the financial situtation.

As for him not being able to get the GOP'ers in the House to side with him. He burned that bridge long ago, and finally finished burning it back in May.

 

[Balt]

Originally posted by: Drakkon
Theory friend and i were discussing:
At last minute Pelosi did her speech to make the bill fail. She knew the numbers on her side and the rep side. She knew if she threw a bomb it could throw the reps off. By doing so shes thrown the issue to the forefront. She brought her dems to the table...delivered 2/3rds. The republicans couldn't ban together and it makes McCain look like his party is in disarray as they said they were at the table all along. Obama gained 5 points this weekend. So long as the economy is at the forefront Obama seems to gain. By making this bill fail the first time Pelosi has given the dems a huge advantae this week. The economy becomes the discussion, the debate this week will focus on economy no doubt, and Obama if he can manage to keep keep his people in line will gain a signifigant advantage.

I think you give her too much credit for inventiveness. I think it's far more likely that she's just a dunce.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Drakkon
Theory friend and i were discussing:
At last minute Pelosi did her speech to make the bill fail. She knew the numbers on her side and the rep side. She knew if she threw a bomb it could throw the reps off. By doing so shes thrown the issue to the forefront. She brought her dems to the table...delivered 2/3rds. The republicans couldn't ban together and it makes McCain look like his party is in disarray as they said they were at the table all along. Obama gained 5 points this weekend. So long as the economy is at the forefront Obama seems to gain. By making this bill fail the first time Pelosi has given the dems a huge advantae this week. The economy becomes the discussion, the debate this week will focus on economy no doubt, and Obama if he can manage to keep keep his people in line will gain a signifigant advantage.

She brought 60% to the table. 60% of the majority party coming to the table is an ABYSMAL job for a House Speaker and Majority Leadership.

How is 30% for the Republican leadership, for a bill from their own party's White House?

I say again, your call for leadership to be able to force these votes is calling for corruption.

 

[SP33Demon]

-778 is the official number.

 

[Brainonska511]

Roll Call for the House vote: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: OrByte
Wow. It feels like just yesterday the fundamentals of our economy were strong.

People on wall street weren't even talking about a recession, just a slow growth period.

After Fannie and Freddie were taken over we were told that it would solve everything.


time to drink. They better lock up all the guns and ammo on Wall Street

They also say, after this bailout things will be fine(or a short recession whatever). Theres a change the bailout wouldnt be enough.

And it still doesnt address the future economic problems the US faces. We have more than just this short term financial mess. We have longterm shit to deal with as well.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
-778 is the official number.

Disappointing. It was .02 from a clean 7% drop.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Drakkon
Theory friend and i were discussing:
At last minute Pelosi did her speech to make the bill fail. She knew the numbers on her side and the rep side. She knew if she threw a bomb it could throw the reps off. By doing so shes thrown the issue to the forefront. She brought her dems to the table...delivered 2/3rds. The republicans couldn't ban together and it makes McCain look like his party is in disarray as they said they were at the table all along. Obama gained 5 points this weekend. So long as the economy is at the forefront Obama seems to gain. By making this bill fail the first time Pelosi has given the dems a huge advantae this week. The economy becomes the discussion, the debate this week will focus on economy no doubt, and Obama if he can manage to keep keep his people in line will gain a signifigant advantage.

the cynic in me likes this theory

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511
Roll Call for the House vote: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml

Im suprised at some of the Dems voting no...