Badnarik on schools

[Vic]

:roll:

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Vic
:roll:

Again, I'm not doing your research.

What you're doing is the equivalent to the following: I make a claim that God is a black woman. You ask me for proof. I get angry and tell you it's obvious God is a black woman. You ask for proof. I tell you you're dense and then give you a google link for black+woman+god. I would not have shown that God is a black woman.

Again, it may very well be that the federal government is responsible for the decline of public schools (in California it's routinely blamed on prop. 13). But you haven't shown that to be the case-- and you made the statement it was the case. It's not my job to do your research and show that your statements are right.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Vic
:roll:

Again, I'm not doing your research.

What you're doing is the equivalent to the following: I make a claim that God is a black woman. You ask me for proof. I get angry and tell you it's obvious God is a black woman. You ask for proof. I tell you you're dense and then give you a google link for black+woman+god. I would not have shown that God is a black woman.

Again, it may very well be that the federal government is responsible for the decline of public schools (in California it's routinely blamed on prop. 13). But you haven't shown that to be the case-- and you made the statement it was the case. It's not my job to do your research and show that your statements are right.

Sigh... all Prop 13 has done has kept old people on fixed incomes from losing their homes after the values were jacked through the roof. Or oops, do I have to come up with a detailed argument to prove that for you? :roll: Or do you just like the idea of old people getting tax-foreclosed on in the name of school funding? (Oops, I just argued like you do... )

I have made no claim that was not in the OP. I am in agreement with the statements in the OP. That is all. If you are not, then why don't you share with us and present your argument to the contrary? In the meantime, this is an internet message board (and more than that, it's troll-central ATPN, so give it a rest with your little belief in "rules" here), and not a college class or structured debate. If you don't agree with what I say, I don't care (rephrased because your sensitive ears misconstrued my down-to-earth style as "anger" LOL).
Here, however, is how I know. My father retired some years back after being a schoolteacher and adminstrator for some 30-odd years. He is also a liberal who leans so far the left he sometimes falls over. I have discussed this very subject with him many times, and gotten a great deal of first hand experience from him. If asked, what is wrong with public schools, his first answer is increasing federal government involvement. With government money comes government rules and mandates, which are usually out of whack with local reality (and sometimes just out of whack period, like a specific example he gave regarding funds that they needed to use to buy books but the feds said they had to buy steel drums). His second answer is the inability of teachers and administrators to discipline problem children who repeatedly disrupt classrooms, a much more complex issue likely caused by absentee parents and opportunistic lawyers.

Now, you're seriously boring me (NOT upsetting me or making me "angry" or "furious", sorry to crush your ego). I understand that a person like yourself who worships at the altar of government has a hard time understanding that daddy gubment can't solve your every problem, but it can't (or do I have to prove that too? :roll: ). I recognize that you are threatened by people like me (and the Libertarians) who know what you deny to yourself, and feel an instinctive need to lash out at me and them, but can you try to keep the discussions somewhat on topic?

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: beer
Isn't it ironic that everyone bitches about american schools but we still have the best universities in the world?

Yeah and if you looked at people working on Masters or Doctorates the majority of people are now foreigners.

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Infohawk
What federal control is there? And aren't libertarians against any kind of government intervention?

What federal control isn't there now? With the enactment of No Child Left Behind, federal control of public schools is pretty much complete <edit> with disasterous effects, while the school voucher initiative is a backdoor to take control of private schools.</edit>
And no, Libertarians believe that localities may have whatever kind of local government control of public schooling they see reasonably fit. It is federal control that is unconstitutional.

This is a misconception about No Child Left Behind. States CAN opt out.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: digitalsm
This is a misconception about No Child Left Behind. States CAN opt out.

Whereupon they lose some vital funding. And states could have a legal drinking age of 18 too, but I don't think any do anymore, now do they?

 

[Infohawk]

I'll deal with your substantive portion first. It was hard to wade through the attacks to get to it but I did.

Originally posted by: Vic

Here, however, is how I know. My father retired some years back after being a schoolteacher and adminstrator for some 30-odd years. He is also a liberal who leans so far the left he sometimes falls over. I have discussed this very subject with him many times, and gotten a great deal of first hand experience from him. If asked, what is wrong with public schools, his first answer is increasing federal government involvement. With government money comes government rules and mandates, which are usually out of whack with local reality (and sometimes just out of whack period, like a specific example he gave regarding funds that they needed to use to buy books but the feds said they had to buy steel drums).

Anecdotal but interesting nevertheless. Still not totally convinced since it's anecdotal but it seems plausible. (I tend not to think money is the biggest factor in poor education. Seems like you don't need that much money to teach math for example [in OP]. Elementary Math doesn't change that often so you don't need new textbooks all the time).

His second answer was the inability of teachers and administrators to discipline problem children who repeatedly disrupt classrooms.

You're not saying this is the federal government's fault though right?

Now on to the less substantive stuff:

Sigh... all Prop 13 has done has kept old people on fixed incomes from losing their homes after the values were jacked through the roof.

Or oops, do I have to come up with a detailed argument to prove that for you? :roll:

Agression #1.

Or do you just like the idea of old people getting tax-foreclosed on in the name of school funding? (Oops, I just argued like you do... )

Agression #2

I haven't argued like that in this thread... Not really sure what your question has to do with anything.

I have made no claim that was not in the OP. I am in agreement with the statements in the OP. That is all.

The OP was questioning Badnarik's conclusion. How exactly can you be in agreement with him?

If you are not, then why don't you share with us and present your argument to the contrary?

I don't have an argument. I have a question. My question was why you blame the federal government on crappy schools.

In the meantime, this is an internet message board (and more than that, it's troll-central ATPN, so give it a rest with your little belief in "rules" here), and not a college class or structured debate. If you don't agree with what I say, I don't care (rephrased because your sensitive ears misconstrued my down-to-earth style as "anger" LOL).

Fair enough. Sometimes serious discussions happen here; sometimes they don't. If you don't want one, that's cool-- just don't reply to me or stop posting but don't get mad at me for treating your assertions seriously.

Now, you're seriously boring me (NOT upsetting me or making me "angry" or "furious", sorry to crush your ego). I understand that a person like yourself who worships at the altar of government has a hard time understanding that daddy gubment can't solve your every problem, but it can't (or do I have to prove that too? :roll. I recognize that you are threatened by people like me (and the Libertarians) who know what you deny to yourself, and feel an instinctive need to lash out at them, but can you try to keep the discussions somewhat on topic?

Lotsa' agression-- just skimmed it sorry.


Here's what I wanted to say but then I waded through it all:
I'm sorry I couldn't wade through all the personal attacks again to find the grains of truth.

 

[Vic]

Well... wearying, obtuse double-talkers like yourself do tend to make me want to show a little aggression. In general though, I am a rather openly aggressive person, but in a very positive way. I know passive aggressives like yourself don't believe that it is possible for aggression to be positive, but then again that's why I like to get openly aggressive against passive aggressives

And to be clear, I was not aggressive to you in this thread nor did I start any personal attack until you began being passive aggressive and purposely and obtusely twisting my words and meanings for your own personal benefit, something you continue to do with every post while pretending that you are not (one reason why you are breaking up my quotes and not even displaying them in order, or Oops, was I not supposed to notice that?). Anyway, it shows much about your character, and not positively, though I am not surprised. By all means consider this a personal attack against you. I'm having fun now.

 

[Zepper]

One can easily chart the decline the the results of public schooling from the institutuion of the Federal Dept. of Education in the late 60's and the huge campaign contributions from the teacher's unions that largely began at around the same time.

. IAC, does anyone know how to get the yardsign.pdf from badnarik's web site to print properly?
.bh.

 

[GoPackGo]

maybe they should close the school and hand out pennies

 

[Dissipate]

I used to think that public schools were really just daycare centers, but now I think they are actually prisons.

 

[AFB]

Originally posted by: Dissipate
I used to think that public schools were really just daycare centers, but now I think they are actually prisons.

I think you're right.