Bad Ball Joints?! How is this possible?! Continuing my Trooper Saga . . .

[BonzaiDuck]

I believe I already recounted the story in some thread I posted in the last two years.

My long-standing mechanic and shop-owner had retired in 2018, and I had to find another -- somebody I could trust, somebody who had experience and somebody confident in their ability to service my 26-year-old orphaned-model Isuzu Trooper. When there had been something needing attention or parts-investment, Dick had always been reliable. I do not believe he ever recommended a repair or replacement that was unnecessary. But because of him, the car was always roadworthy.

So finding another mechanic and shop can be a matter of trial and error. There were things which I knew might be done. I wanted, for instance, new KYB Mono-Max shocks, because the old ones had been installed in 2002. I decided to try a repair-shop further down the road than Dick's place. The owner pointed out the broken, grungy ball-joints that had been with the car since it rolled off the dealership lot in 1995, and I approved the order to replace both upper and lower ball-joints. Usually this work would go to my tire-reseller. But I decided to let this prospective repair-shop choice to do it, in addition to the KYB shocks.

I later discovered that he over-charged me on the parts markup as well as the labor, asking for an estimate in hindsight from the tire-reseller. But I assumed that I was good-to-go with new ball-joints and shocks for many future years.

Coming around to the last five months, I was assessing the need for new tires. The tire-reseller had always given me a decent price and a warranty for free maintenance for the warranty-period. The warranty would last either for some mileage like 60,000 miles, or for a limited number of years. And the reseller would not continue to service tires that were out of warranty. Even so, he had given me a "courtesy-break" for balance and rotation last year, even though the tires had been purchased in 2014. There was perhaps just short of 3/8" tread still left on the tires. The reseller told me that the remaining tread was just a little less than half of the life-span tire wear. But they were seven years old, and other causes like atmospheric ozone might take their toll on the worn tires.

I decided to replace the tires this year.

I ran the Trooper by my long-standing tire-reseller. We chose the tire replacements. I was even willing to get Michelins, because in planning to keep this car for another ten years or until they have to pry the steering-wheel from my cold, dead hands, I wanted "the best". Perhaps that's a myth -- about the Michelins. It's "a name". Supposedly, they can deteriorate faster than some brand like Cooper or Yokohama. We settled on the Cooper Evolutions. So the reseller ordered the tires, and I brought the Trooper in on the appointed day and time.

The Trooper had been on the rack for maybe ten minutes, when the reseller came to me in the lounge to lead me back to the car and point to the ball-joints. "We can't warranty tires installed with these ball-joints. They're shot!" he told me. I pointed out that the ball-joints were brand-new but for less than 3 years of wear, which -- in turn -- amounted to about 6,000 miles on the odometer.

He wanted $1,050 for the ball-joints upper and lower and the installation labor. The estimate he'd given me nearly 3 years earlier had been 60% of that amount. I didn't like the way this conversation about my tires and ball-joints was going.

Among the other repair shops I'd considered when I was canvassing to replace my retired mechanic three years earlier, there was one outfit across town who employed a former Isuzu mechanic. For a model-line that had been discontinued in 2005, they still advertised themselves for servicing Isuzus in their web-page three years ago. They had a good reputation. But I just thought that they were too far away. The journey from here to there would take me to the other side of town.

Before succumbing to my tire-reseller's recommendation, I took the car to this other repair shop yesterday morning. I got there early so they could just put it on the rack, inspect the suspension and give me a second opinion.

They, too, told me the lower ball-joints were shot, and the upper ones were not in the best condition!

They offered me an estimate for both the Coopers and the ball-joint work -- $400 less than the reseller had quoted. At that point, I couldn't refuse. My long-standing tire-reseller was supposed to save me money, but it didn't appear that he was doing so anymore.

Still, I have to ask -- How is it possible that new ball-joints three years ago, after only 6,000 miles driving on city streets, could need replacement?

To me, this is all about probability and expected lifespans. Perhaps the installer of these ball-joints had not done the work properly. I couldn't feel anything amiss! I could take the car down the highway at 70mph and feel confident and safe. There was never an indication that the suspension was loose, coming apart, worn, or anything else.

Either the reseller AND the repair-shop giving a second opinion are lying to me, or something else was wrong -- with the parts or their installation.

A new SUV -- we might at least want a hybrid or an electric -- would mean an annual flow of cash disbursals totaling about $6,000 per year with another $2,000 per year in additional insurance costs. I could spend $1,000 per year in repairs on the Trooper, keep myself in wheels and save a lot of money with a low carbon footprint of 3,000 miles per year. Particularly I LOVE this car. And these "troubles" are not Isuzu's fault; they aren't the Trooper's fault.

But this "business" with the ball-joints concerns me that I'm paying more to keep the Trooper on the road than I should. So . . . How is it POSSIBLE that those ball-joints installed three years ago could be "shot"?! Or is this some plot among repair-shops and resellers to discourage my Trooper obsession?

 

[pauldun170]

What brand ball joint did they originally toss in? Moog or OEM (Sankei)?
If Moog - > Quick search revealed some Jeep owners claiming Moog can be short lived crap.
If Sankei (OEM) - > Maybe they screwed up the orignal install or there is some slop else where in the suspension putting a bit of stress on things?

 

[Jimzz]

Yea same question, what was put on? Moog is not the same quality it once was. Many "moog" parts are just reboxed asian parts. I've use quite a few SUSPENSIA and Delphia of late. Both of those are made in Turkey. Not sure about longevity yet but seem pretty good do far. But still a crapshoot.

On top of that how they were installed, what grease is in them, and many other things can affect lifespan.

 

[Paperdoc]

My guess also is poor replacement parts installed 3 years ago. 3 years is too short for "decent" life of ball joints not heavily used, although your 25-year lifespan of the originals is NOT normal either - they probably needed replacement before that. FYI, I have found that ball joints often are VERY badly worn before I notice oddities like wandering, rattles or vibrations in the front end., and I trust my mechanic's assessment over mine on these matters. Like your old one, he is very competent and very honest.

 

[Stiff Clamp]

Didn't Cooper just recall a slew of tires? (Sorry don't have specifics.)

 

[BonzaiDuck]

What brand ball joint did they originally toss in? Moog or OEM (Sankei)?
If Moog - > Quick search revealed some Jeep owners claiming Moog can be short lived crap.
If Sankei (OEM) - > Maybe they screwed up the orignal install or there is some slop else where in the suspension putting a bit of stress on things?

Yea same question, what was put on? Moog is not the same quality it once was. Many "moog" parts are just reboxed asian parts. I've use quite a few SUSPENSIA and Delphia of late. Both of those are made in Turkey. Not sure about longevity yet but seem pretty good do far. But still a crapshoot.

On top of that how they were installed, what grease is in them, and many other things can affect lifespan.

YES!
Yes, yes, yes YEA-USH! MOOG! That was supposed to be "top-end" stuff -- or so I thought! Ya see? Ya see the mistakes one can make, even for keeping the 2,000-page factory shop manual at your fingertips in color, searchable PDF format. You "hear" stuff. You "associate" stuff.

So, without too much elaboration, I didn't explain how this scenario with the tire-reseller and prospective reputable repair-shop relates to my experience with my current repair shop. My current repair shop just "closed its doors", asking loyal customers to "share some memories with Tim" -- the elder part of the ownership who retired in September. I had caught them just in time to have son Dave replace my harmonic balancer -- failing in the membrane that attaches to the pulley wheels. Eventually, the modest rattle I would hear when engaging the belt-driven AC might cause a belt to break, but we had caught it just at its inception. Without the AC running, the pulley wheel wasn't being drawn against the engine block to cause the rattle. So Dave replaced that sucker in under two hours, managed the work with the radiator carefully, and restored my engine to totally quiet, belt-saving and balanced operation. Purr-feck!

Well, according to my e-mail inbox, Dave is closing the shop to "start a new business". So taking the car across town to get the second-opinion about the ball-joints accommodates other motives of my own.

But if Jeep owners complain about short-lived MOOG parts, that's a hole in the sieve of possibilities that would seem very significant. Well, sir! It pisses me off. But on the positive view of things, the new repair-shop on the other side of town told me they have purchased ball-joints that are as close to OEM parts as would be industrially possible. But they're not Sankei by brand name: they're named "555" brand.

:You can give me an opinion or inform me about re-badged auto parts -- a common topic over in the computer power-supply forum, or re-badging. But with Tom the Isuzu mechanic working at this most recent repair shop who will now install my tires and ball-joints, and the reputation they seem to have, their word carries great weight. But take a shot at it! All information is useful.

I'm going to shell out $200 more than my stimulus check. Should I comfort myself? Maybe I should rather spend it on a new wheel-chair device so I can get my aging Moms up the stairs and out to the car for her medical appointments -- or her COVID shots And that would be good, if the vehicle is also in good enough shape to get her there. But I shouldn't need to spend anything, assuming my 2018 outlay for ball-joints was a not a needless waste of money. Yet, it seems likely that it was indeed a waste of money.

So I'm pissed off about MOOG and the shop-owner who oversaw their installation. Still, his mechanic had been careless for replacing a power-steering hose. It was leaking, insufficiently torqued on its fitting and therefore loose for a leak. Carelessness indicates carelessness.

OK -- Moral of the story. You can save a lot of money doing work on your used car by yourself. You can do some of the work all of the time, but you can't do all of the work some of the time. When you can't do the work for some things, you face the uncertainty -- or risk -- with the intervention of someone who doesn't pay attention, know what they're doing, or otherwise give a good g**d**n.

Still not worth the alternate strategy of a car mortgage. Not the way I see it.

I may go out today to get the vegetables at the local truck-farm. I have to get the vegetables! The Trooper rides again! Hi-Ho-o-o-o-ooo!

And next Wednesday -- new tires and suspension parts. Whoopee. Gonna wash off the blue tint on them raised tire letters. "Put 'em on the outside!" I told them. Get out the white-enamel paint-pen! And we'll just spend Moms' stimulus on the electric-wheel-chair-tractor.

 

[mindless1]

First off, were you shown excessive play in the BJs or just "told" they were shot? Even with play, some shops are underhanded and in this case could just loosen the bolts to produce play and y ou'd have to inspect them to notice that, or might grab the rubber boot with pliers and rip it till grease was coming out.

Always ask for the old parts back! If a BJ is shot, you can easily tell this just moving it around in your hand, and "maybe" identify the brand.

I would ignore the Jeep owners who take their vehicle off-road then wonder why the suspension doesn't hold up, but if you aren't going off road, even the cheapest junk upper BJs should have lasted longer than this (in miles, years means nothing as long as not so old that the grease has hardened), so the required-replacement assessment seems fishy.

Moog makes good ball joints. Primary problem they used to have was the rubber boots didn't have a long lifespan, so they lost lube and dirt got in, with the owner not checking them to notice in time, but they redesigned those on many parts.

They do have a lifetime warranty. Always ask on parts with warranty, how long it is and how to get it fulfilled. If the shop doesn't extend to you an equal length warranty as same part you buy yourself would have, something is fishy.

There are generics that use similar if not same part # as Moog so I would wonder if you previously had generic $3 (lower BJ), $13 (upper) junk put on. Otherwise, with so few miles, they should have lasted longer than this even if you hadn't ever greased them, if not the permanently sealed type.

The permanently sealed type is more susceptible to impact damage from potholes, speed bumps, etc due to using a plastic bushing, but impacts will wear any out far faster. Still, I bet they got you the cheapest BJs they could find instead of Moog.

555, is a Sankei line so if genuine, should be good BJs.

$1K for BJs on the Trooper is absurd. They don't even press in, nor are built into the control arms. Just bolted on, so at most that would be an hour labor per wheel for someone doing similar work as a profession.

If you concede there's going to be parts markup, call the BJs $75 per so $300 in parts, two hours labor, around $540 total, except you might need a $100 alignment... I'd get one, considering new tires too. Maybe add $10 if some bolts have to be replaced due to rust after this long.

Your wonderful old trooper is not so wonderful if you aren't going to DIY the repairs. This includes checking the BJs yourself ahead of time, all of the suspension parts right before getting new tires to guard against not just shady shops but also, shops that don't check for or notice suspension problems then your new tires wear unevenly - which is not covered under warranty even if they didn't see the problem ahead of time.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

First off, were you shown excessive play in the BJs or just "told" they were shot? Even with play, some shops are underhanded and in this case could just loosen the bolts to produce play and y ou'd have to inspect them to notice that, or might grab the rubber boot with pliers and rip it till grease was coming out.

Always ask for the old parts back! If a BJ is shot, you can easily tell this just moving it around in your hand, and "maybe" identify the brand.

I would ignore the Jeep owners who take their vehicle off-road then wonder why the suspension doesn't hold up, but if you aren't going off road, even the cheapest junk upper BJs should have lasted longer than this (in miles, years means nothing as long as not so old that the grease has hardened), so the required-replacement assessment seems fishy.

Moog makes good ball joints. Primary problem they used to have was the rubber boots didn't have a long lifespan, so they lost lube and dirt got in, with the owner not checking them to notice in time, but they redesigned those on many parts.

They do have a lifetime warranty. Always ask on parts with warranty, how long it is and how to get it fulfilled. If the shop doesn't extend to you an equal length warranty as same part you buy yourself would have, something is fishy.

There are generics that use similar if not same part # as Moog so I would wonder if you previously had generic $3 (lower BJ), $13 (upper) junk put on. Otherwise, with so few miles, they should have lasted longer than this even if you hadn't ever greased them, if not the permanently sealed type.

The permanently sealed type is more susceptible to impact damage from potholes, speed bumps, etc due to using a plastic bushing, but impacts will wear any out far faster. Still, I bet they got you the cheapest BJs they could find instead of Moog.

555, is a Sankei line so if genuine, should be good BJs.

$1K for BJs on the Trooper is absurd. They don't even press in, nor are built into the control arms. Just bolted on, so at most that would be an hour labor per wheel for someone doing similar work as a profession.

If you concede there's going to be parts markup, call the BJs $75 per so $300 in parts, two hours labor, around $540 total, except you might need a $100 alignment... I'd get one, considering new tires too. Maybe add $10 if some bolts have to be replaced due to rust after this long.

Your wonderful old trooper is not so wonderful if you aren't going to DIY the repairs. This includes checking the BJs yourself ahead of time, all of the suspension parts right before getting new tires to guard against not just shady shops but also, shops that don't check for or notice suspension problems then your new tires wear unevenly - which is not covered under warranty even if they didn't see the problem ahead of time.

"Your wonderful old trooper is not so wonderful if you aren't going to DIY the repairs." And that's the prevailing short-side on the old-car strategy. Both shops "demonstrated" to me the excessive play in the ball joints, but I still came away wondering why the ride felt so solid this last three years. On the estimated parts and labor quote, the repair-shop undertaking next week's work is in line with the estimate quote I obtained after the replacement in 2018. In fact, the BJ labor, parts and alignment are about $700 total.

All my information has uncertainty aspects. Two assessments from two different shops. Two posters on this thread coming in to report the skinny on the street about MOOG ball-joints. Mindless1 reporting his view with suspicions like my own. "555 is a Sankei line" -- I have no reason to doubt it.

I should have these new tires for as long as seven years. I shouldn't have any "suspension" problems or diagnoses. I know what other parts were replaced and when. The only things left on the car that could fail are the fuel pump -- operating tip-top thus far, the steering gear/gear-box -- also no indications of anything wrong, the air-conditioning compressor which seems to be totally sealed and stand-up frosty, the power-steering pump -- a part so simple and widely available, showing no noise indications or failure at this point. Nothing else but the catalytic converter, which seems to be good enough to offer low NOx ratings on the smog-tests, and a couple sensors, which don't seem to be failing. Sensors are $5 items, and easy to replace in the home garage.

I suppose at some point, my epic ambition to save money instead of buying a newer vehicle will intersect my sheer affection for the old one. If I want to keep it rolling after that, it will be mostly for the affection.

It has cost me about $125 per month over the last 19 years -- my initial purchase thrown into the total. Insurance savings is a separate issue and additional amount -- my ballpark estimate is between $60 and $100 per month. A new car would mean about 3 to 4 times that monthly outlay, accounting for the trade-in value at 1/3 purchase price every six years.

Ball joints are not the sort of thing I might embrace as my own weekend chore, though.

 

[mindless1]

You keep mistakenly trying to equate your old vehicle costs with a new vehicle when if you are willing to drive used beyond a decade old, and aren't going to DIY, then you can get something a little newer, not brand new, that has more years left before 1K+ per year expenses.

I'm just telling you what works for me and many others. Covid era used vehicle pricing is excessive but you had this dilemma before then.

Ball joints, like anything else, just require rolling your sleeves up and having accumulated the basic tools, and borrowing what you lack. Take it to a pro to get an alignment done afterwards if it's a design where there's any fastener subject to play that changes the wheel angle.

Appreciate that the right tools make a job seem less daunting, then there are often youtube videos to either show the most efficient way to get things done, or at least show the process so you may even realize a more efficient way to get it done than shown in the video.

Power tools are your friend, no sense in fighting high torque fasteners when it's possible to let the tool do the work, then it is just a process. Take apart, put back together. Done. It's a bit like making a sandwich, then unmaking it, lol.

It seems fairly short sighted to think there's only a handful of things you could have go wrong on a vehicle that age. At any moment, you could develop a wiring short, or vac leak, motor failure (motor includes window or sunroof, seats, hvac blend door etc), etc. Many things that you think are going to last a long time because already replaced, won't necessarily, for example your ball joints!

I'd get the Sankei BJs before Moog, but Moog would be my next choice before the others, and as mentioned, they have a lifetime warranty. I happen to have Moog BJs on my oldest SUV, no problem with them and if they fail, it's only the cost of shipping to get warranty replacements and an afternoon on the weekend to swap them out... and mine take more work to swap than yours do.

If you don't DIY, it is not cost effective to keep a vehicle that old, unless you find a mechanic that charges dirt cheap labor and is honest, and has conservative common sense, then you treat that mechanic like GOLD.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

You keep mistakenly trying to equate your old vehicle costs with a new vehicle when if you are willing to drive used beyond a decade old, and aren't going to DIY, then you can get something a little newer, not brand new, that has more years left before 1K+ per year expenses.

I'm just telling you what works for me and many others. Covid era used vehicle pricing is excessive but you had this dilemma before then.

Ball joints, like anything else, just require rolling your sleeves up and having accumulated the basic tools, and borrowing what you lack. Take it to a pro to get an alignment done afterwards if it's a design where there's any fastener subject to play that changes the wheel angle.

Appreciate that the right tools make a job seem less daunting, then there are often youtube videos to either show the most efficient way to get things done, or at least show the process so you may even realize a more efficient way to get it done than shown in the video.

Power tools are your friend, no sense in fighting high torque fasteners when it's possible to let the tool do the work, then it is just a process. Take apart, put back together. Done. It's a bit like making a sandwich, then unmaking it, lol.

It seems fairly short sighted to think there's only a handful of things you could have go wrong on a vehicle that age. At any moment, you could develop a wiring short, or vac leak, motor failure (motor includes window or sunroof, seats, hvac blend door etc), etc. Many things that you think are going to last a long time because already replaced, won't necessarily, for example your ball joints!

I'd get the Sankei BJs before Moog, but Moog would be my next choice before the others, and as mentioned, they have a lifetime warranty. I happen to have Moog BJs on my oldest SUV, no problem with them and if they fail, it's only the cost of shipping to get warranty replacements and an afternoon on the weekend to swap them out... and mine take more work to swap than yours do.

If you don't DIY, it is not cost effective to keep a vehicle that old, unless you find a mechanic that charges dirt cheap labor and is honest, and has conservative common sense, then you treat that mechanic like GOLD.

"unless you find a mechanic that charges dirt cheap labor and is honest, and has conservative common sense, then you treat that mechanic like GOLD."

No question about it. Since Dick the first mechanic and shop-owner retired, I have explained my search efforts as those of Diogenes. I actually found the "GOLD" mechanic and shop in fall, 2019. On two occasions, I asked them to do things I just chose to have done, and they argued that they didn't need to be done. They actually gave me information about how to do certain things myself, like flushing the transmission with a 1/4" siphon tube down the fill-port. I actually kicked them back a $50 "tip" after that information paid off.

But the GOLD mechanic was also an old mechanic with back trouble, medical appointments and pain-killer prescriptions. And he, too, retired. His son, who was superbly trained and efficient, apparently didn't want to continue the business, and possibly even felt a sense of loneliness without Dad in the office, so he decided to "start a new business". I figure if that business were to run a repair shop, he would've been explicit about it in his "going out of business" notice.

I agree with you entirely about all of this stuff, and you've patiently explained what I know to be the common sense of it. But things catch you off balance. If you just think you're going to buy a new set of tires, you don't think to get under the car beforehand. The entire exchange with the tire-reseller throws you off balance.

You're also correct about unanticipated things, small and large, requiring repair -- either by your own hands or a mechanic. But everything is a matter of probability curves spread over time and miles. Will my engine suddenly go bad? I'll put a sizeable pile of change on a bet that it won't over the next five years. Will I have vacuum hose leaks? It did, I found them, and fixed them. The transmission? it's got 60,000 miles, and it's been flushed about five times over that mileage. No indication that there will be anything to go bad there for another five years or more.

It's all a crap shoot, but it's an educated crap shoot. If I take the car out tomorrow for a jaunt up to COSTCO so I can get another set of prescription eyeglasses, it will be running down the road a year from now (less than 3,000 miles) just as reliably. I could get in an accident -- that's possible. There are a lot of things that are possible.

The ball-joint episode is not a normal type of experience. It shouldn't even be an issue over a longer period of time, or at least the life-span of new tires. The 2018 installation was supposed to provide me with "certainty".

What bothers me more are "market signs" I've seen over these last three or so years. Too many shop-owners retiring or going out of business. What does COVID have to do with this? People need car repairs -- with or without a pandemic. What about minimum wage pressures? Mechanics are mostly all paid well above $15 per hour, so what pressure does a $15 minimum wage bear on mechanics' wages?

I've seen general signs locally of businesses and "practices" engaging in rip-offs. Let me tell you about a dentist I had until last year, when I filed a complaint with the state dental board. A "second opinion" concluded that allowing the dentist to complete a certain procedure -- I was being pressured to have it done -- would've been an incidence of malpractice -- thus, the complaint.

Are repair shops prepared for electric vehicle repair? I wouldn't know. With the low maintenance required on such vehicles, what are the prospects for independent repair shops? I wouldn't know.

I can cop out and chalk up my extra ball-joints as "stimulus" spending, since I didn't need the stimulus payment I got. That's less than economically rational. What I want to do, though, is avoid any further repair-shop encounters for a few more years, doing oil changes and other things myself. I just wouldn't have planned on doing the ball-joints myself. It was a surprise. And I have to "plan" for something like that -- getting the car up on jack-stands, pulling the wheels -- all of that. I have too much to do fixing Moms' oatmeal in the morning and changing the diapers . . . .

Certainly, all that would provide an incentive to get a new or "newer" car. But I have to "plan" things. Another used car has its own probability distributions covering each part or component -- a cycle of repairs and replacements. I argue that I KNOW all my Trooper's probability distributions, but of course the ball-joint episode seems to defy my sense of things. Big fleas have little fleas on their backs; my sense of big probabilities has little outliers on the curves.

So tomorrow -- COSTCO and the eyeglasses. The Trooper rides again! Hi-Ho-o-oooo!!

 

[mindless1]

You have expended more effort making posts about your Trooper, than it took me to replace my ball joints.

Less write, more do.

A newer vehicle has the same eventual repair issues, but it is buying time till the avg age of failure happens. Driving low miles as you do, it could be many years until a newer vehicle needs much done to it besides time related things like fluids, wipers, tires.

 

[Torn Mind]

My experience with old tires are that dry rotted and whatever are totally not a big failure risk in local driving as long as they are properly inflated. Now, if you're traveling 100 miles or more, then yes, get some fresh ones; it's not worth getting stranded in an unfamiliar state. Performance may be a little less; this would matter in the rain and braking distance.

IIRC, you're also in California....so rain is not a huge event.


The shop installed some really crappy parts, I'll bet. Simple as that. Mechanics are to be presumed predators until proven otherwise.

If I were RockAuto'ing the parts, I'd pick AcDelco Professional over most other brands.

and if you ever do want to DIY, at least there's a video for the top ones.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

You have expended more effort making posts about your Trooper, than it took me to replace my ball joints.

Less write, more do.

A newer vehicle has the same eventual repair issues, but it is buying time till the avg age of failure happens. Driving low miles as you do, it could be many years until a newer vehicle needs much done to it besides time related things like fluids, wipers, tires.

We will continue to have these differing perspectives, no doubt. "Average Age of Failure" breaks down into subsystem average failure rates. I track this stuff. I can tell you, for instance, how I needed to replace a radiator because a mechanic had used the transmission cooling lines for transmission flushes, and damaged the radiator seal where those lines meet the radiator bottom. It isn't the car's fault for the carelessness, but the carelessness is a risk in a strategy of keeping a vintage car rolling. It can be avoided -- for instance, as you say -- by doing more work myself.

Then, there's the issue of "sunk cost". The businessman who continues to shoulder annual losses hoping to recoup them in a more successful year would be advised to simply let go of the losing investments and walk away. In some respects, my old car includes "sunk cost". But here, the numbers are on my side. There are possibilities that things may go wrong, costing more ducats. But the probabilities are small.

I can buy a used vehicle with 50,000 on the odometer and probably not expect to replace an alternator, a PS hose, or anything else over another 50,000 miles or more. But I'm shelling out -- say -- $15,000 to drive at most 20,000 miles over maybe six years. I won't shell out $15,000 on the Trooper over that time, given the spreadsheet repair history, odometer readings and probabilistic expectations. I'll give myself the trouble and save a good portion of that $15,000. Maybe I could sell the newer used car in six years -- for what? -- $5,000? $6,000? I can do better with the expectation of spending $200 annually on the Trooper between now and then.

This has become a sort of contest for me, given my growing attachment to the car, seeing myself become a sort of high-profile eccentric around town, or watching or just imagining other people react to my old SUV. But I'm not ready to "walk away" from it, until I'm at a point where it becomes an auxiliary vehicle -- the point where I've acquired another vehicle -- perhaps a used one -- which I may only get a chance to drive 20,000 miles before age, health and God punch my ticket for me.

As for the time on the keyboard, well -- I can type faster than I can talk, almost. And I can sit here fiddling around with my super-custom PC all day, but for the errands and other aspects I've mentioned. It's the actual time spent on the cold hard garage cement, the preparations, all of it -- that counts more in my current existence.

My experience with old tires are that dry rotted and whatever are totally not a big failure risk in local driving as long as they are properly inflated. Now, if you're traveling 100 miles or more, then yes, get some fresh ones; it's not worth getting stranded in an unfamiliar state. Performance may be a little less; this would matter in the rain and braking distance.

IIRC, you're also in California....so rain is not a huge event.

The shop installed some really crappy parts, I'll bet. Simple as that. Mechanics are to be presumed predators until proven otherwise.

If I were RockAuto'ing the parts, I'd pick AcDelco Professional over most other brands.

and if you ever do want to DIY, at least there's a video for the top ones.

See -- you are correct about that. If I'd followed the pattern of your typical old retired person nursing their 30-year-old vehicle to drive it a few thousand miles per year, I would've waited another year or even two to replace the tires. I did it partly because we had a pile of rain a few weeks ago, and I noticed the tires slipping. Here's where the perceptions of shop-owners and mechanics intercept your choices, though. They might THINK I just want to spend money unnecessarily on the vehicle, and then be willing to oblige me as their mental cash-registers flip up some numbers. On my end, I have to make a decision sooner or later about 7-year-old tires and that uncomfortable "slipping on the wet pavement". It was part of a plan. The ball-joints were not part of a plan, because they were supposed to be accounted for with the 2018 outlays.

Generally, your revenue-conscious mechanic or shop-owner will tell you "don't fix it until it's broke". Wait until the timing-belt breaks. Wait until the battery dies because the alternator failed. Then, in desperation, call us and deliver your vehicle in panic.

So if I stave off eventual disaster by doing what seems unnecessary for the moment, I'm a spendthrift with deep pockets -- also ripe for exploitation.

I could buy a new car. I would drive it off the lot and lose about $5,000 then and there. I would run it through a six-year car-mortgage, leaving a resale value of 1/3 or perhaps $10,000 from a $30,000 MSRP, and I would still have needed to pay something for repairs and maintenance on top of that. If I'm going to drive the car 15,000 miles per year, it makes more sense. If I'm going to drive it 3,000 per year, it doesn't. The tire outlay is an increment. It means I'm going to try keeping the car for another 6 years or so. Would I get rid of it, just for need to replace the tires again? Save that question for 2027.

I can't see any winning propositions with these alternatives. If, for instance, I could just push a button and "beam myself up" to some location and then beam myself back, I would still lose the driving experience. I wouldn't be able to sit at Captain Kirk's chair and go into warp-drive by my own hand.

I wouldn't be posting, we wouldn't be discussing this, I wouldn't be taking my time and counting my money -- but for the fact that I simply chose to get new tires this year -- knowing that I could squeeze another two years out of the old ones. But it's not an irrational choice. New tires will last another seven years. I had a budget for this. I feel safer with new tires.

It's not that I'm too "eager" to spend the money. The tires are seven years old, fur chrissake!

But you can see how this might set up perceptions and attitudes of the local tradesmen, who want me to wait until I have a blowout and then spend the money. Or -- as long as I'm going to spend the money for what they think is unnecessary for the moment -- maybe they figure they might as well take more of it.

I don't know. Who can say? We have the street-intel about "MOOG". I've got all these experiences so far -- just for choosing to get new tires now versus waiting a couple years. I expect that it will "all be over" after next Wednesday.

Meanwhile, I'm going to get a good-quality digital tire pump. I will put air in my tires -- the nitrogen is hype. And every 5,000 miles, I will take the Trooper in for a free balance and rotation. I will give the shop-owner $20 to pay for his lunch -- anyway.

 

[Torn Mind]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlGwvohCm6M