Backup System -> what is your advice

[bob332]

here is the setup:

1 server running win2k adv serv
5 clients running win2k pro

would you recommend tape? speed is pretty important. it is in a doctors office and if the system crashes i would need to get it back up quickly.

since hdds are so cheap what would you thinkg of either putting another in each system or even use a removeable kit and ghost the master drives?

any and all opinions will be greatly appreciated

thanks in advance for your time
bob

 

[Agamar]

A DDS-4 tape system is fairly cheap, but if you want something really cheap, you can try the OnStream 30G or even the 60G version. I have used these on a lot of lower class systems and they seem to run pretty good. Just keep an eye on the tapes and check your backups at least once a month to verify that you are getting good data.

 

[bob332]

would you people recommend backing up each individual computer?

 

[Slowlearner]

Although I manage a slightly larger setup, I am faced with similar dilemmas. Right now, we have one PC backing up key data on Onstream 30GB tapes - daily and weekly, I have recently started replicating data files on a second hd on the server every two hours and once at night on a third PC. Please be aware that Onstream recently went out of business again and there is no support available; their bundled software Echo was in any case very slow and irritating. Instead of tape, Zip and USB 2.0 drives are better options if the data is not very large.

Most backup utilities bundled with OSs are clunky, and consumer backup software generally does not work on Windows Server, and also does not backup open files - all users must be off. Server backup software is pricey and may not support cheaper hardware like CDRs or low end tape drives like the Onstream 30 GB - check this out very carefully.

I have to get around this by replication (plain copy) as indicated, and I am currently assembling a backup server, with a Travan tape drive which will be setup and configured to take over in an emergency.

 

[bob332]

i also need to add that the office staff needs to do this, not me. i should have made that more obvious in the first post.

 

[Shide1]

I would get a seagate 20gb travan drive. They are about $200. Also, configure a raid 1 or 5 array and perform backups to that. Use veritas 9.0 for windows servers for your software. You should be pretty safe with tape backups and backups to a raid array. By doing this you can restore quickly from hard drives or if those drives fail then you can restore from tape.

 

[bob332]

i appreciate the ideas i have so far, anybody else?

 

[Arcanedeath]

If the system can be off while it's being back'd up I'd suggest just getting a remoavable frame and a 2nd HDD for each system and then just ghosting the primary HDD to the backup one in the frame and then pull the frame so you have a complete backup that even if the whole system dies you can still easily get your data or if just the HDD dies you have a drop in replacment w/ maybe 5 min or so of downtime. Just my 2 cents... and hope it helps...

 

[imported_Phil]

Here's a slightly different approach:

Store profiles & documents, etc on the server and schedule that to backup on maybe a nightly/bi-nightly basis. Once it's all running and the client machines are in good working order, Ghost their hard disks onto CDs or similar. The Ghost images should be fairly small, you could even hook up a DVD-/+r drive to the client machines while you Ghost them.

If a client machine goes down, you simply put the Ghost disc(s) in the CD drive and let them boot- if you configure it right, they'll restore without any further intervention. With a DVD, you're likely to only need the one disc, making restoring a machine a cakewalk.

Just make sure that people know to store their docs etc on the server! You might even be able to make a script that copies files that can only be stored on the clients to a named directory (one for each machine) onto the server, across the network, before the server imaging starts each night. Or, let them store their files, and backup those files to the server automatically before backup starts.

Hope this helps,

Dopefiend

 

[bob332]

i have used ghost and love it, with a tape, can i recreate a hdd just how ghost does? if i ghost a hdd with ghost, then the master goes down, all i need to do is move the ide cable and presto, everything is running again. if i restore with a tape how long will it take and will i get the same results as with ghosting. i will probably ghost and tape backup the main server. i will get a removeable hdd kit and then it can be taken offsite.

 

[bob332]

should i go dds-4 or dat72? is there a website that compares all the formats? i must say that the data must be saved.

 

[Arcanedeath]

Tape back devices normaly come w/ their own backup software, and unforunatly I'm not sure if you can use ghost to backup to tape as I've never tried it. I suspect ghost will not backup to tape, also as an FYI tape has a much slower transfer rate than a HDD so it's going to take longer to backup and restore large amounts of data over tape than it would if you have a HDD. Hope this helps....

 

[bozo1]

I have a couple dozen customers with a similar setup.

Store all workstation information on the server. There should be nothing on workstations that you care about saving when recovering from a failure or doing an upgrade.

Tape drive in the server. The amount of data you need backed up depends on the type tape drive you should use. Stay away from Travan. You may pay only $250 or so for a 10GB/20GB drive but you pay $30+ per tape. You can go DDS3 (12GB/24GB) for only $50 or so more and pay under $10 per tape. DDS4 if you need a 20/40 drive. DLT or LTO if you need more, etc.

I set up my customers with 10 blank tapes. Mon-Thur has their own tape - I have 4 Friday tapes, one for the 1st friday of the month, one for the 2nd friday, etc. and 2 offsite tapes that I have the customer use the day they plan to take a tape offsite. I leave that schedule up to them so they can come up with something they can live with and not forget instead of me having them try to remember a schedule.

Some customers I have using W2K's built-in backup program. Most I have using Backup Exec.

Customers need to realize that cost should never be a factor when you are talking about protecting your companies data. My customers that have had disasters with no backup solution in place will atest to that.

I'm just curious - why would a small office with 5 workstations need a $3000 version of Windows?

Anything else - using Ghost, backing up to another machine, etc., is all just a kludge in my opinion. Do it the proper way.

 

[Muck]

I learned a lot in this thread. Thanks guys.

 

[bozo1]

Haha, what a timely topic.

Just got a call from my boss... waiting for me at the office is a Netware 3.12 server from a customer with 2 4.3GB hard drives that are failed. They thought mirroring them was all they needed to do to protect their data.

NO backups.

This will be fun...

 

[bob332]

Originally posted by: bozo1
I have a couple dozen customers with a similar setup.

Store all workstation information on the server. There should be nothing on workstations that you care about saving when recovering from a failure or doing an upgrade.

Tape drive in the server. The amount of data you need backed up depends on the type tape drive you should use. Stay away from Travan. You may pay only $250 or so for a 10GB/20GB drive but you pay $30+ per tape. You can go DDS3 (12GB/24GB) for only $50 or so more and pay under $10 per tape. DDS4 if you need a 20/40 drive. DLT or LTO if you need more, etc.

I set up my customers with 10 blank tapes. Mon-Thur has their own tape - I have 4 Friday tapes, one for the 1st friday of the month, one for the 2nd friday, etc. and 2 offsite tapes that I have the customer use the day they plan to take a tape offsite. I leave that schedule up to them so they can come up with something they can live with and not forget instead of me having them try to remember a schedule.

Some customers I have using W2K's built-in backup program. Most I have using Backup Exec.

Customers need to realize that cost should never be a factor when you are talking about protecting your companies data. My customers that have had disasters with no backup solution in place will atest to that.

I'm just curious - why would a small office with 5 workstations need a $3000 version of Windows?

Anything else - using Ghost, backing up to another machine, etc., is all just a kludge in my opinion. Do it the proper way.

thanks for the info. honestly, i don't know what the hell he is doing with adv server, he could have accoplished everything with pro. the server is the domain controller with ad, but ad is not being used. all user/passes are the same on all the wrkstatns and server. i think his old computer guy f*cked him pretty good, if i find out the old computer guy screwed him with at bogus copy, i might report the old computer guy, that to me is unacceptable.

anyway, it looks like about 40GB is what i will need to backup. is backup exec easy enough for people that don't know anything about computer to use? also, does it do an image? the problem is that if the sh*t hits the fan, they need their server back up quickly, hopefully under an hour.

i understand tape is the best way, but it doesn't seem like the fastest. what would you think if i brought a computer up once a week and ghosted over the network, using 2 different images on 2 seperate hdds? that is my backup strategy at home and it works well and is fast. if they had a serious problem, i could take my machine up and restore the image. they might lose a little data, but they will not be s.o.l.

thanks in advance for your time
bob

 

[imported_Phil]

If you brought a computer up once a week, you'd grow rapidly fed up of that very very quickly. Plus, the onus lies on you to protect that data- much better to let them handle that with a fire-proof safe or something, so if it gets lost they can't turn to you and get really p!ssed off!

Dopefiend