Back-UP UPS Setup

[Prince of Persia]

I'm here at work and they've asked me to setup Back-Up Batteries UPS for their systems.

For the PC's they have Belkins 525A models with AVR.

I've got several questions.

Is it ok to hook up back-up batteris to surge protectors then have the surge protectors hooked up to the wall?

My next question is they have an APC Pro 650 for their server, but the lady wanted me to hook up two other Personal PC's via a surge protector to the PRO 650. So now the PR650 is supporting the server and two smaller PC's. Please fill me in if I'm doing something wrong or if I should ask for them to order more.

 

[Jhereg]

NO! don't put surge protectors on UPS systems , not only do you get a bit of electrical wierdness because of the surge protector filtering the power, people ALWAYS fill up the surge strip and overload the UPS..

BAD BAD BAD .. APC and Opti-UPS both state that you should not use surge protectors on their UPS systems

 

[Prince of Persia]

Sorry I need more clarity


Heres my order


Wall Sockt -> APC PRO650 -(Surge outlet on the backup go to the other surge protects) - (Backup Protectors outlets on the backup are connected to the server and to another surge protect which is connected to two other PC)


When I refer to PC all I'm talking about is the PC and Monitor, nothing else like speakers, zip drives, etc.)

As for the individual Back-Up Battery units the Belkins. Each PC has its own, and then two backups are plugged into a surge protector, and that surge protector is plugged into the wall socket.

MORE INPUT PLZ THANKS A MILLION. I'm the only one here that knows about this sort of stuff, and I'm new to the idea of back up batteries.

 

[Prince of Persia]

bump, guys its my job here. Gotta make a good impression. =)

 

[Jhereg]

<< Sorry I need more clarity


Heres my order


Wall Sockt -> APC PRO650 -(Surge outlet on the backup go to the other surge protects) - (Backup Protectors outlets on the backup are connected to the server and to another surge protect which is connected to two other PC)

No do not connect ANY surge protectors to a UPS

When I refer to PC all I'm talking about is the PC and Monitor, nothing else like speakers, zip drives, etc.)

As for the individual Back-Up Battery units the Belkins. Each PC has its own, and then two backups are plugged into a surge protector, and that surge protector is plugged into the wall socket.
No do not connect ANY surge protectors to a UPS

MORE INPUT PLZ THANKS A MILLION. I'm the only one here that knows about this sort of stuff, and I'm new to the idea of back up batteries. >>




Its irrelevent how you have it set up, if you have a UPS connected to a surge protector in ANY FORM is BAD

 

[Prince of Persia]

heres a hypothetical situations

say the ups are all charged
and the power goes out will the pcs still be provide with energy or will they be messed up?

can you guys tell me what would occur if there is a surge and how it'll affect the setup i have


thank you sooo much for your help.

 

[Jhereg]

All true UPS systems have surge suppression incorporated in the design.
So use of surge suppressor strips is not only dangerous , it is superfluous
Given your hypothetical . all units will remain on until :

1. The UPS runs out of battery reserve, then system crashes unless power is restored

2. The UPS software ( if any ) safely shuts down the systems.

No, there will be no &quot;messed up&quot; computers .. that's what the UPS will prevent.

 

[Rordog]

what jhereg said is true.

The surge supressors are redundant.
Furthermore, when you attempt to power multiple pc's and monitors off of one surge supressor, you are essentially forcing quite a high draw on just one ups outlet. Thats bad news for your UPS setup. You should advise your company to get UPS's for each important computer, as you lose the shut down capabilities when you run more than one computer off the UPS.

UPS + surge protector = bad news.

UPS alone w/ AVR &amp; surge protection functions = good.

 

[bigbootydaddy]

yeah, besides the whole point of a UPS is to keep the esentials running, monitor, comp...you dont need to have the stereo ups'd

 

[Prince of Persia]

The only thing the surge protectors are there for is because theres only one outlet for about 5 pcs + a server. thats why they had the surge protectors in there in the first place.

So whats the worst case scenario, what could happen?

is it better to take out the ups or leave them with the surges?

 

[wyvrn]

If they had only one outlet for that may pcs, they may be overloading it. Contact an electrical contractor to see if he can install any more outlets, or you may have bigger problems on your hands (like a fire).

 

[Jhereg]

It amazes me but it seems to me that you want us to convince you that its ok to use strips with UPS ... well no matter how many times you ask, the answer is still NO

The worst case scenario : you fry everything

Actually you are asking the wrong question with 5 machines on one outlet is absurd at best
The amount of power you can pull it is possible to actually overdraw current.. kaboom !

What you need to do is create new separate outlets per machine and divide them among 2 circuits ( server and PC ) ( remaining PCs)
Yes you will have to spend MONEY

That is the way it should be set before you even think of using UPS and strips.

get a UPS just for the server, put the PCs on strips . Save all important data to server
upgrade PCs to UPS units when budget allows.

 

[Prince of Persia]

Ok thanks guys, sorry if I sounded like I'm trying to convince you guys or something of that sort, but its only my second week. Plus no one here understands this sort of thing, my instinct told me it was dangerous and I told the lady, but she said &quot;No its ok, its a big back up battery'

I'm just afraid of being the new guy telling them to build more outlets, because they had the setup running with all those PC's before the installion of UPS.

But thanks a million guys, I'll pass the word along. You don't know how grateful I am.

 

[wyvrn]

I understand your dilemna. Trying to get past ignorance is often a hard thing to do, especially in corporate environments where people are used to the &quot;status quo&quot;. I don't envy you, I have been there before.

At this point the best thing you can do is make your recommendation with the information you have. Whether or not they choose to take it may be out of your control. On the same token, if something major happens it will not be your fault. I would suggest against recommending that many pcs on one outlet though, cause if you do it might be your neck.

 

[MWink]

Ignoring the fact that it would overload the UPS. You should NEVER plug a surge protector into a UPS. Because of the type of power most UPSs put out and the circuitry in most surge protectors you can easily end up frying everything (UPSs, surge protectors, and computers). DO NOT PLUG A SURGE PROTECTOR INTO A UPS!!! For more info on that check out the APC knowledge base. If you need more plugs use a NON-surge protected power strip. Just be sure you don't overload the UPS. My APC Back-UPS Pro 650 is just enough to power 2 computers and monitors.