Back to the stone age. P4 3.0c overclocking help needed

[thirdlegstump]

While I'm no newb on overclocking, I've been using AMD for quite some time now and haven't paid enough attention to the Intel side of things.

So far, I understand that all current P4's are multiplier locked so I'm limited to FSB overclocking. Since they are currently at 800MHz, that leaves me with having to run higher than 200MHz FSB and memory speeds....Meaning I'll need better than PC3200 ram and will be running odd async ratios if I really want to max out overall MHz.

I need suggestions on motherboards, best bang for the buck P4 as well as the RAM. I wish to run at least 3.2GHz on air cooling, perfectly stable under heavy rendering apps such as After Effects and 3DS animations. Please note, I'm not going for the biggest overclock. Just a middle of the road overclock that can be easily achieved without busting the wallet much.

So far, I am looking at the A-Bit IC7 and a 3.0c Northwood. Not sure about the ram. I will be getting a 430W Enermax and will be running a SATA Stripe RAID with the 74GB Raptors.

Vid card will be a FX 5700.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[myocardia]

The parts you've picked look perfect to me, for what you are wanting to do with the system. I would buy Corsair XMS PC3200 or Kingston HyperX PC3200. You're thinking like an AMD man, when you think that running the ram asynchronous to the cpu's fsb hurts performance. It's been tested, quite a few times by now, that running a 250mhz fsb with low-latency ram at a 5:4 ratio (the ram at 200mhz), is slightly faster with a P4 than running at a 1:1 cpu/ram ratio with the looser settings that the higher speed rams have.

 

[thirdlegstump]

I've been using 2x512MB PC3200 Buffalo Winbond CH-5 for the longest time. I wonder if this stuff is still good enough?

 

[Shimmishim]

Originally posted by: myocardia
The parts you've picked look perfect to me, for what you are wanting to do with the system. I would buy Corsair XMS PC3200 or Kingston HyperX PC3200. You're thinking like an AMD man, when you think that running the ram asynchronous to the cpu's fsb hurts performance. It's been tested, quite a few times by now, that running a 250mhz fsb with low-latency ram at a 5:4 ratio (the ram at 200mhz), is slightly faster with a P4 than running at a 1:1 cpu/ram ratio with the looser settings that the higher speed rams have.

This is very true.

That is why you run kingston hyperX or rev 1.1 corsair xms pc3200 bh-5's at a higher voltage and let them fly at 250 mhz.

it is not uncommon to run these pc3200 bh-5's at 250 mhz with 2-2-2-6 timings... i've done it before on my p4p800 board.

5:4 only if you're going to try to run 250 mhz + .... i say stick with pc3200 ... save the money of the more expensive pc4000 or pc4400 or pc50000000000 ram...

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: deathkoba
I've been using 2x512MB PC3200 Buffalo Winbond CH-5 for the longest time. I wonder if this stuff is still good enough?

Well, I can guarantee you that it won't cost you a penny to try it out, and see just how high it will go.

 

[Technonut]

Originally posted by: myocardia
The parts you've picked look perfect to me, for what you are wanting to do with the system. I would buy Corsair XMS PC3200 or Kingston HyperX PC3200. You're thinking like an AMD man, when you think that running the ram asynchronous to the cpu's fsb hurts performance. It's been tested, quite a few times by now, that running a 250mhz fsb with low-latency ram at a 5:4 ratio (the ram at 200mhz), is slightly faster with a P4 than running at a 1:1 cpu/ram ratio with the looser settings that the higher speed rams have.

It all depends on how tight you can get your timings @ 1:1.... 250MHz FSB would push a 3.0C to 3750MHz. My 3.0C will run @ 3700MHz with watercooling, and top out @ 3600MHz on good aircooling.

I ran a few aircooled benchmarks @ 1:1 and 5:4..

3428MHz / RAM @ 456MHz / 1:1 / Street Racer

Cachemem: Read: 4034.6 Write: 2462.1

Hexus Pifast: 57.30

3DMark01: 20574

UT2003: (1024x768) FB: 271 FPS BM: 98 FPS

Gunmetal BM 1: Max FPS: 70.87

3607MHz / RAM @ 384MHz / 5:4 / 2-5-2-2

Cachemem: Read: 3704.8 Write: 1766.9

Hexus Pifast: 56.28

3DMark01: 20554

UT2003: (1024x768) FB: 273 FPS BM: 99 FPS

Gunmetal BM1: Max FPS: 71.92

3607MHz is slightly faster except in Cachemem and 3DMark01, but not enough to justify running a higher VCore than 3428MHz @ default VCore IMO... My system feels more snappy and responsive with the RAM @ 456MHz / Street Racer than @ 384MHz / 5:4, which shows me that Street Racer timings are comparable to a 200MHz bump in processor speed. EDIT: Comparable in the above benchmarks... I need to run some DVD2SVCD and compare times...

 

[myocardia]

Tech, you need to reread what I said. I said that a P4 would be slightly faster at 3600mhz with 2-2-2-5 and a 5:4 ratio than it will be at 3600mhz at 3-4-4-8, like the PC4000 and PC4200 rams run at, at a 1:1 ratio.

 

[Technonut]

Originally posted by: myocardia
Tech, you need to reread what I said. I said that a P4 would be slightly faster at 3600mhz with 2-2-2-5 and a 5:4 ratio than it will be at 3600mhz at 3-4-4-8, like the PC4000 and PC4200 rams run at, at a 1:1 ratio.

I see what you are saying... and agree. Since deathkoba is thinking about the 3.0C and IC7, I was just showing the impact that the Street Racer GAT setting could make with just a moderate OC on the 3.0C...

 

[thirdlegstump]

nb

 

[FelixDeCat]

n/m

 

[smahoney]

I think the best bang for the buch OC Intel chip is still the 2.8C. Save a few bucks from the 3.0 and spend on better memory - Gets to 3.5 on air easily.

 

[thirdlegstump]

So it looks like I'm set on the 3.0c and the IC-7. Last thing is the memory. I don't want to spend more than $100 per stick of 512mb but I do plan to run dual channel @200MHz+ 2x512mb. I think the Buffalo should do it but since this will be a separate rig, I want to test out other memory too. Technonut, you have KVR at 456...what chips are on them and what voltage are you running them at?

 

[myocardia]

Geil works well with P4's, but this dual-channel kit here is slightly over your $200, though it does have good timings. Although, this Kingmax is what I would buy. Just read some of the customer reviews on that page.

 

[thirdlegstump]

Before I got a chance to read your message, I ended up getting some OCZ dual channel kit. PC3500 cas 2.5. Hope it holds up at 200fsb cas 2.....Also got the IC-7 board.

Would the stock retail HSF do 250FSB on the 3.0c with minor voltage increase? (3.75GHz)

 

[myocardia]

OCZ is awesome memory, you won't be disappointed with it. But you aren't going to get to 3.75ghz with the stock heatsink. If I were you, I would get this heatsink: Thermalright SLK-947u and this fan: Vantec 92mm Tornado if you aren't one of those people who think they shouldn't be able to hear their computer while it's running. Of course, if you are, you aren't going to be able to get anywhere near 3.75ghz air-cooled anyway.

 

[thirdlegstump]

Didn't think so either lol. What could I expect out of that 947u and Vantec combo?

 

[MichaelZ]

If you were going to spend big, definatly get some PC4000 ram. i got myself some PC3500, it runs 2,3,2,5 but unfortunatly it does not OC well, especially at those timings. loose timings @ 1:1 is not necessarily better than tighter timings @ 5:4, I decided to just stay put at running 5:4

If you don't plan on running 1:1 then PC3200 will be just fine. @ around 250FSB you'll only need 200mhz for your ram (DDR - 400mhz effective). I'm running 3.0C @ 3.7 ghz air cooled - 5:4 ratio and DDR @ nearly 400mhz. Unfortunatly using stock cooler it's unstable when room temperature exceeds 25 degrees. Thus... I'm currently running 3.55 ghz stock voltage and it's stable for all conditions (also @ 5:4) - roughly 374 mhz DDR. As you can see, unless your ram can OC a fair bit running right timings, you'll need to get some PC4000 to run 1:1 @ tight timings. If you don't plan on spending that much on the ram, as PC4000 can be pricy, PC3200 will be just fine.

 

[myocardia]

It's going to depend on what kind of voltage the chip requires to clock that high, but if you get a good chip, I would think that you could get to 3.75ghz with no problem at all and with low temps with an SLK-947u and a 92mm Tornado. Nearly everyone who's gotten to 4.0ghz have used watercooling, if not something better (and quite a bit more expensive, like phase change).

 

[Technonut]

Technonut, you have KVR at 456...what chips are on them and what voltage are you running them at?

I have had this RAM for a long time... One stick has Winbond BH-5 (PC3200), the other, BH-6 (PC2700). (2.8V) It has been good for cheap ValueRAM

Good luck with your new stuff...

 

[thirdlegstump]

b

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Technonut

Technonut, you have KVR at 456...what chips are on them and what voltage are you running them at?

I have had this RAM for a long time... One stick has Winbond BH-5 (PC3200), the other, BH-6 (PC2700). (2.8V) It has been good for cheap ValueRAM

Good luck with your new stuff...

You're running 228 with PC2700? Are you sure that the 2700 isn't the BH-5? Oh, loose timings, I would assume? Still!
edit: Koba, runnig 5:4 with a P4, and keeping low latencies is actually a tiny bit faster than running loose latencies at 1:1, so your OCZ PC3500 will be just fine.

 

[thirdlegstump]

The stuff should arrive today. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

 

[Technonut]

You're running 228 with PC2700? Are you sure that the 2700 isn't the BH-5? Oh, loose timings, I would assume? Still!

Positive.... The PC2700 is BH-6.... No loose timings either. GAT is set to Street Racer. (2-5-3-2)

 

[thirdlegstump]

Hm...I'm getting an oddly high temp reading on the CPU. 55c in the bios idle. Is this normal? I'm still using the stock Intel HSF and AC5.

 

[thirdlegstump]

BTW, this is a SL6WU stepping.