Only liberals in the west blame the Americans and the French for whatever that's ailing Vietnam. Most Vietnamese people blame their corrupt government. The war with the west is over for them. Vietnam has improved a lot, but Vietnam went backward a great deal after 1975. Greed, corruption, inefficiencies, stupidity made Vietnam one of the most poverty stricken countries in the world in the 1980s. People went hungry in one of the most fertile land in Asia. When the communists took over, they chased out some of the best people of Vietnam. Businessmen, doctors, farmers lost their houses and their lands, teachers sent to reeducation camps. Ethnic Chinese were cleanse out after the government took everything they had.
Only liberals in the west blame the Americans and the French for whatever that's ailing Vietnam. Most Vietnamese people blame their corrupt government. The war with the west is over for them. Vietnam has improved a lot, but Vietnam went backward a great deal after 1975. Greed, corruption, inefficiencies, stupidity made Vietnam one of the most poverty stricken countries in the world in the 1980s. People went hungry in one of the most fertile land in Asia. When the communists took over, they chased out some of the best people of Vietnam. Businessmen, doctors, farmers lost their houses and their lands, teachers sent to reeducation camps. Ethnic Chinese were cleanse out after the government took everything they had.
Svnla
Lifer
- Nov 10, 2003
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OP, where did you go? I just got back to the US this week after a month long stay in Saigon, South Vietnam.
There are some misinformed statements in this thread, please visit the place and see it on yourself instead of I heard from "a friend of a friend, my long dead uncle friend of a friend, etc."
There are some misinformed statements in this thread, please visit the place and see it on yourself instead of I heard from "a friend of a friend, my long dead uncle friend of a friend, etc."
Svnla
Lifer
- Nov 10, 2003
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I agree with this statement. Vietnam was one of the strongest economies in Southeast Asia (note the was). Saigon was the Pearl of The Orient. After the commies took over in 1975, it went to hell (economy speaking).
Don't let me start on the landgrap of the commies.
AgentUnknown
Golden Member
- Apr 10, 2003
- 1,527
- 5
- 81
Trash everywhere? What do you expect from a 3rd world country? Be grateful you live in the US. Like there isn't trash anywhere here.
Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Im interested to know more about your opinion. Did you actually visit or you from there? If so, please do share.
The owner of nearby convenience store is from there and he always speaks fondly of his homeland. My take from his stories is that a dollar goes pretty far over there.
I visited there a couple of times. I say what I said because the OP is complaining about the real world that exists outside of the first world. He would bitch and moan about any place that wasn't clean so he should just stick to Disneyland or something.
The first trip there I just sort of went around to different places, Hanoi to Da Nang to Nha Trang and then Saigon. Second time I rode a motorcycle through from Hanoi to Mai Chau to Dien Bien Phu, up to Sapa and back to Hanoi. That was pretty sweet.. Vietnamese people were always very friendly even if they didn't speak any English. I remember one night we got really drunk with these guys, they'd basically yelled us over from a little food stand late at night. The lady running the stand cooked us up all sorts of food including pig brains and whatnot. At the end they wouldn't let us pay for anything. Then in Hanoi, if you ever watch a travel show on Vietnam they always go to Highway 4 restaurant. The head waiter there we ended up getting drunk with him and a few chefs and stayed well after the place had closed and they were feeding us dog, snake liquor, all kinds of crazy stuff.
Anyway just a neat place, I recommend the motorcycle trip.
Svnla
Lifer
- Nov 10, 2003
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I don't want to turn this into P&N. The Republic government (Southern) was no angel but at least the coutry didn't become one of the poorest nations on earth when they were in charge, millions didn't risk their lives to leave, you can have your own land and properties if you work hard and earn them. No matter how you and your commie loving kinds spin it, Vietnam was in a much better shape before April 30th, 1975. Shall I start a thread about how corrupt commies were then and now?
Like I said in another thread in P&N, if you like them commies so much, please go over there and live under their rule and see how much support the regular Vietnameses have for their own commie government.
Now back to regular scheduled programming.
They were all corrupt. Well, we can say all government was corrupt, but they were a little more than others. The US kind of screwed itself by backing a regime that lost a lot of popular support.
Vietnam has a lot of natural resources but is pretty much constantly in strife. A number of deep water ports make it especially inviting for sea trade. My visits were pretty fun, even when I knew I was getting ripped off since I speak vietnamese with an "american" accent now. But its like there anywhere people expect tourists.
Power losses a couple of times a day sucked too. Probably won't go back anymore now that there aren't any more family members that I'm fond of.
EDIT: Regarding Svnla Kind of like the lesser of two evils. I remember how people had everything they owned seized for the good of the country. Especially those who worked for the government in any way shape or form. My grandfather was a manager at a bank and my family ended up losing their home and having to move to some small village somewhere before I was born.
evident
Lifer
- Apr 5, 2005
- 12,137
- 761
- 126
just because im calling it how it is you have no right to call me a commie lover you ignorant fuck. :| my parents lived through this shit and fled their country on a boat to get over the US. my father's family lost all of their land when the commies took over in 53, and my mom lost her sister and her brother got left behind and got reeducated. all i said was the south was corrupt not that the north was justified in doing what it did. all you need to do is read history and see that the south was pretty shitty too, especially toward the buddhist population and was corrupt itself, which is the main reason why the south lost alot of support among their own people. i never said that they embraced the north with open arms either
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,586
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FelixDeCat
Lifer
- Aug 4, 2000
- 31,054
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Originally posted by: Farang
Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Im interested to know more about your opinion. Did you actually visit or you from there? If so, please do share.
The owner of nearby convenience store is from there and he always speaks fondly of his homeland. My take from his stories is that a dollar goes pretty far over there.
I visited there a couple of times. I say what I said because the OP is complaining about the real world that exists outside of the first world. He would bitch and moan about any place that wasn't clean so he should just stick to Disneyland or something.
The first trip there I just sort of went around to different places, Hanoi to Da Nang to Nha Trang and then Saigon. Second time I rode a motorcycle through from Hanoi to Mai Chau to Dien Bien Phu, up to Sapa and back to Hanoi. That was pretty sweet.. Vietnamese people were always very friendly even if they didn't speak any English. I remember one night we got really drunk with these guys, they'd basically yelled us over from a little food stand late at night. The lady running the stand cooked us up all sorts of food including pig brains and whatnot. At the end they wouldn't let us pay for anything. Then in Hanoi, if you ever watch a travel show on Vietnam they always go to Highway 4 restaurant. The head waiter there we ended up getting drunk with him and a few chefs and stayed well after the place had closed and they were feeding us dog, snake liquor, all kinds of crazy stuff.
Anyway just a neat place, I recommend the motorcycle trip.
Thanks for sharing your experience. The world should perserve its exotic places before they turn into just more cookie cutter, mass produced, chain store American style suburbs. :beer::|
evident
Lifer
- Apr 5, 2005
- 12,137
- 761
- 126
Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Originally posted by: Farang
Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Im interested to know more about your opinion. Did you actually visit or you from there? If so, please do share.
The owner of nearby convenience store is from there and he always speaks fondly of his homeland. My take from his stories is that a dollar goes pretty far over there.
I visited there a couple of times. I say what I said because the OP is complaining about the real world that exists outside of the first world. He would bitch and moan about any place that wasn't clean so he should just stick to Disneyland or something.
The first trip there I just sort of went around to different places, Hanoi to Da Nang to Nha Trang and then Saigon. Second time I rode a motorcycle through from Hanoi to Mai Chau to Dien Bien Phu, up to Sapa and back to Hanoi. That was pretty sweet.. Vietnamese people were always very friendly even if they didn't speak any English. I remember one night we got really drunk with these guys, they'd basically yelled us over from a little food stand late at night. The lady running the stand cooked us up all sorts of food including pig brains and whatnot. At the end they wouldn't let us pay for anything. Then in Hanoi, if you ever watch a travel show on Vietnam they always go to Highway 4 restaurant. The head waiter there we ended up getting drunk with him and a few chefs and stayed well after the place had closed and they were feeding us dog, snake liquor, all kinds of crazy stuff.
Anyway just a neat place, I recommend the motorcycle trip.
Thanks for sharing your experience. The world should perserve its exotic places before they turn into just more cookie cutter, mass produced, chain store American style suburbs. :beer::|
i'm really looking forward go seeing it myself. i will be planing to go with my parents and sister the first time to meet all our family over there. i feel like it's going to be pretty sobering, so i will def have to get out somewhere and have an experience like farang did. lol
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,586
- 986
- 126
Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Originally posted by: Farang
Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Im interested to know more about your opinion. Did you actually visit or you from there? If so, please do share.
The owner of nearby convenience store is from there and he always speaks fondly of his homeland. My take from his stories is that a dollar goes pretty far over there.
I visited there a couple of times. I say what I said because the OP is complaining about the real world that exists outside of the first world. He would bitch and moan about any place that wasn't clean so he should just stick to Disneyland or something.
The first trip there I just sort of went around to different places, Hanoi to Da Nang to Nha Trang and then Saigon. Second time I rode a motorcycle through from Hanoi to Mai Chau to Dien Bien Phu, up to Sapa and back to Hanoi. That was pretty sweet.. Vietnamese people were always very friendly even if they didn't speak any English. I remember one night we got really drunk with these guys, they'd basically yelled us over from a little food stand late at night. The lady running the stand cooked us up all sorts of food including pig brains and whatnot. At the end they wouldn't let us pay for anything. Then in Hanoi, if you ever watch a travel show on Vietnam they always go to Highway 4 restaurant. The head waiter there we ended up getting drunk with him and a few chefs and stayed well after the place had closed and they were feeding us dog, snake liquor, all kinds of crazy stuff.
Anyway just a neat place, I recommend the motorcycle trip.
Thanks for sharing your experience. The world should perserve its exotic places before they turn into just more cookie cutter, mass produced, chain store American style suburbs. :beer::|
Interesting story. I read a similar story written by a guy who traveled the world on a motorcycle visiting many different countries even countries in the middle east that are said to be hostile to Americans and he said basically that people all over the world are pretty much the same and really will help you, take you into their homes and offer food, they are generally not hostile. It is largely governments that promote and spread hate.
Svnla
Lifer
- Nov 10, 2003
- 17,986
- 1,388
- 126
Me ignorant? Like I am some white liberals such as Hanoi Jane? Did anything I say in my posts were not true?
I experienced the same things or even worse than your parents. I was one of the few survived boats people that barely escaped to the US from the refugee camps. My parents lost all the prime land in Saigon (do you know how much it is worth right now?). I visited Saigon last month and I saw how bad shape my mom was and how much it was due to the hardship she suffered due to commie treatment of her so please excuse me for not having any sympathy to commie and their lovers.
I don't need to read any history, I lived tho it already. If the Republic gov treated them Buddish so bad, why aren't any of them protest right now under commie gov? Oh, must be much better treatment now right? :disgust: Just to show how naive you are.
You keep saying about how corrupt the Republic gov was, do you know how much commie gov was then and right now? Do you ever visit Vietnam recently or at all?
That is why I think I liked Vietnam in particular so much JulesMaximus because of that conclusion you can draw while in northern Vietnam. There I was a white guy 21 years old and you know anyone over 60 lived through getting the shit bombed out of them, probably knew plenty who died etc. but they were still very welcoming to me. You think 30 years earlier I'd be trying to blow their heads off and they would want to slit my throat, makes you think how stupid war is. I hope my kids someday can have my same experience in Iraq or Afghanistan.
edit: and I don't think it is an interesting story considering I only mentioned the drunk parts
the interesting part was the motorcycle riding but that is really indescribable so I won't try.. you can google pictures of the road along the route I mentioned. it is like a combination of going back in time 1000 years and also of being like the guy in dances with wolves, with people welcoming you and whatnot but just using hand signals
edit: and I don't think it is an interesting story considering I only mentioned the drunk parts
the interesting part was the motorcycle riding but that is really indescribable so I won't try.. you can google pictures of the road along the route I mentioned. it is like a combination of going back in time 1000 years and also of being like the guy in dances with wolves, with people welcoming you and whatnot but just using hand signals
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,586
- 986
- 126
Originally posted by: Farang
That is why I think I liked Vietnam in particular so much JulesMaximus because of that conclusion you can draw while in northern Vietnam. There I was a white guy 21 years old and you know anyone over 60 lived through getting the shit bombed out of them, probably knew plenty who died etc. but they were still very welcoming to me. You think 30 years earlier I'd be trying to blow their heads off and they would want to slit my throat, makes you think how stupid war is. I hope my kids someday can have my same experience in Iraq or Afghanistan.
edit: and I don't think it is an interesting story considering I only mentioned the drunk parts
No, what was interesting to me was the people, total strangers that don't even speak the same language would invite you into their homes and businesses and cook for you, drink with you, and show you a good time. :thumbsup::beer:
I can only imagine what it was like to ride through parts of that country. I do ride a motorcycle but my riding so far has been limited to the southwestern United States.
Svnla
Lifer
- Nov 10, 2003
- 17,986
- 1,388
- 126
Originally posted by: evident
i never praised or defended the commie gov't. you just took my disdain for the south and automatically labeled me as a liberal commie, who's naieve?
And where did I say the Repubic gov was great? I was bashing them commie and their policies that turned one of the strongest economies in Asia to one of the poorest on Earth....and I stand by all my statements in this thread (truthfullness and facts).
This was what I said originally and I quoted "I agree with this statement. Vietnam was one of the strongest economies in Southeast Asia (note the was). Saigon was the Pearl of The Orient. After the commies took over in 1975, it went to hell (economy speaking). Don't let me start on the landgrap of the commies."
and then you said "the southern government was pretty corrupt too and lost alot of popular support. who are we kidding here?" ..I was like... WTF x 100000000000000000000
Everyone would agree if the South won or at least hold their own line (as North vs. South
in Korea), Vietname would be as strong as South Korea or better.
Svnla
Lifer
- Nov 10, 2003
- 17,986
- 1,388
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Cars are very expensive in Vietnam due to taxes. A typical car that cost about $20K in the US would be $40K in Vietnam. I don't know how they want a car in such a dense and highly populated city (even worse than NYC).
But you wouldn't believe how many luxury cars such as BMWs, MBs, Ferrariies, and the likes in Saigon. Guess who are the owners? Yup, them commie and their relatives...so no corruption there (sarcasm to evident).
DainBramaged
Lifer
- Jun 19, 2003
- 23,454
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