B2 bomber stunt

[Charles Kozierok]

Anyone care to guess how much money we wasted on this little gimmick?

Do the South Koreans cover the cost of these exercises in general? Or of having thousands of US trooper permanently stationed there? If not, I have no idea why US tax dollars are being spent to provide free military protection to a foreign country.

 

[ElFenix]

If not, I have no idea why US tax dollars are being spent to provide free military protection to a foreign country.

so that just in case north koreans come across the border, americans will be in harm's way, justifying american intervention in a (second? continuation?) korean war.

 

[lotus503]

given the recent saber rattling I don't think its bad to remind them we could level the entire country while they are sleeping.

 

[Mxylplyx]

I dont think joe public is in a position to judge the merits of a show of force to a saber rattling regime that is growing more belligerent by the day. This is just part of having global strategic military alliances. Contrast that to say...George Bush flying out to an aircraft carrier, which was a completely pointless stunt that was probably enormously expensive after all the preparations.

 

[werepossum]

given the recent saber rattling I don't think its bad to remind them we could level the entire country while they are sleeping.

This - although given that they regularly Photoshop in weaponry, I'm not sure it does any good to tell them we sent in B2s if they can't see them on radar. Maybe have them flare out (increasing their radar signature) or drop some big bags of flour along the DMZ.

 

[Paratus]

given the recent saber rattling I don't think its bad to remind them we could level the entire country while they are sleeping.

There could be a legitimate argument that expensive but tailored shows of force are cost effective ways to prevent costly wars.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

given the recent saber rattling I don't think its bad to remind them we could level the entire country while they are sleeping.

I don't think that reminder is particularly necessary. Everyone is well aware of who the alpha is when it comes to military force.

Seems to me this was a very expensive and completely unnecessary way of thumbing our noses at the North Koreans. Not that they don't deserve it, but I'd rather we didn't engage in such obviously wasteful practices.

 

[werepossum]

I don't think that reminder is particularly necessary. Everyone is well aware of who the alpha is when it comes to military force.

Seems to me this was a very expensive and completely unnecessary way of thumbing our noses at the North Koreans. Not that they don't deserve it, but I'd rather we didn't engage in such obviously wasteful practices.

I'm not at all sure that is true of North Korea. They are so insular that they may well believe their own press, and I'm sure they believe we too regularly lie and deceive regarding our military strength.

 

[lotus503]

I don't think that reminder is particularly necessary. Everyone is well aware of who the alpha is when it comes to military force.

Seems to me this was a very expensive and completely unnecessary way of thumbing our noses at the North Koreans. Not that they don't deserve it, but I'd rather we didn't engage in such obviously wasteful practices.

It's one think to be alpha it's another to have the social and political will to engage in war.

So it's not just showing them that we are strong it's also showing we are capable.

But I think frankly it's more about letting china know we're not going to tolerate North Korea's threats.

One could argue the money is wasteful but in the scheme of waste this bothers me less.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

I'm not at all sure that is true of North Korea. They are so insular that they may well believe their own press, and I'm sure they believe we too regularly lie and deceive regarding our military strength.

And you think for some reason they aren't going to underplay/distort/hide this incident as well?

Seriously.. what the heck are we doing playing South Korea's "big brother" anyway? Don't we have our own borders to protect?

 

[Fern]

Anyone care to guess how much money we wasted on this little gimmick?
-snip-

I don't know that it was a waste of money. Those crews must drill to remain prepared for action. All pilots, even civilian ones, must log a certain amount of airtime to keep their licenses. So, I think it likely that there was no waste.

Fern

 

[Charles Kozierok]

No waste, flying from the US to South Korea to drop a couple of bombs, and then fly back?

If you say so.

 

[werepossum]

And you think for some reason they aren't going to underplay/distort/hide this incident as well?

Seriously.. what the heck are we doing playing South Korea's "big brother" anyway? Don't we have our own borders to protect?

As I said earlier, I suspect that North Korea may well not believe that we sent B2s or even have B2s - although they do have a thorough spy network, they may not believe them.

As for why we are playing South Korea's "big brother", I can think of several reasons. First, every nation needs allies, and if a nation is very strong as we are, nations of similar strength are strategic competitors, so we have to ally with weaker nations. If we aren't going to help them defend themselves, why would they do that? South Korea has similarly helped us in the past. Compare that to our relationship with France, where we are legally required to defend them but they are not legally required to defend us, and it looks like a bargain.

Second, a pro-Western democracy is always worth defending, even if we are not allied.

Third, a stable world (i.e. a world whose boundaries are not continuously redrawn by war) is a desirable thing, but it isn't free. It has to be purchased with blood and treasure.

Besides, the Democrats aren't going to let us protect our own borders anyway. That would be racist. Probably sexist, ageist and homosexual too.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

What exactly has South Korea done to help us? I'm serious. This, like most of our military "alliances", seems to be nearly entirely one-way.

 

[Fern]

I don't think that reminder is particularly necessary. Everyone is well aware of who the alpha is when it comes to military force.

Seems to me this was a very expensive and completely unnecessary way of thumbing our noses at the North Koreans. Not that they don't deserve it, but I'd rather we didn't engage in such obviously wasteful practices.

Many think a "reminder" a damn good idea.

Many analysts I have heard speak about this NK situation are not so much worried that NK will unilateral launch a war, but that through miscalculation might start one. In the recent past NK has sank a SK Corvette class military ship killing SK sailors. They have also shelled a civilian population on an island, killing quite a few.

The concern here is that if we just ignore NK they will continue increasing the severity of their provocations until they do get a response. And, again there is concern that either through incompetence or miscalculation they will push it too far unintentionally starting a conflict.

So, I think the point of B2's is to give NK the attention they seek in hopes of forestalling any further provocations that might go to far.

Fern

 

[SpatiallyAware]

As much as I hate needless government spending, I am actually ok with this.


We are dealing with a completely different mindset and culture, one that thrives off of "shows of force". I imagine that to the average NK-er, a b2 bomber is a fairly terrifying object in the sky.

From from a mental warfare perspective it could be very effective.

 

[Bowfinger]

I don't know that it was a waste of money. Those crews must drill to remain prepared for action. All pilots, even civilian ones, must log a certain amount of airtime to keep their licenses. So, I think it likely that there was no waste.

Fern

That was my thought as well. While this is admittedly only speculation, given that the B2s are based in Missouri, it's pretty much a given that any time we use them in actual warfare it will involve flying halfway around the world. My guess is part of their crews' ongoing training are missions just like this. The only difference this time (perhaps) is that this mission was publicized.

 

[Jodell88]

Slightly off topic, but did the B2s fly to South Korea and back non-stop?

 

[Charles Kozierok]

If it was really done as part of routine training, then fine.

I still want to know who is paying for thousands of our troops to be permanently stationed in Korea, and/or what exactly we get from SK to justify this tremendous expense -- not to mention extreme risk, if hostilities did break out.

 

[Fern]

Slightly off topic, but did the B2s fly to South Korea and back non-stop?

From what I've read about them yes, it's certainly likely. They would need in-air refueling once.

They done similar length flights before.

Fern

 

[Bowfinger]

Slightly off topic, but did the B2s fly to South Korea and back non-stop?

That's my understanding, yes. Their missions are non-stop, beginning and ending in Missouri, with however much aerial refueling they need to get to their target and back.

 

[benzylic]

I thought there were a few B-2s stationed on Guam. I'm surpised they didnt use those, but maybe they are slated to take off on a moments notice in case of a crisis.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Many think a "reminder" a damn good idea.

Many analysts I have heard speak about this NK situation are not so much worried that NK will unilateral launch a war, but that through miscalculation might start one. In the recent past NK has sank a SK Corvette class military ship killing SK sailors. They have also shelled a civilian population on an island, killing quite a few.

The concern here is that if we just ignore NK they will continue increasing the severity of their provocations until they do get a response. And, again there is concern that either through incompetence or miscalculation they will push it too far unintentionally starting a conflict.

So, I think the point of B2's is to give NK the attention they seek in hopes of forestalling any further provocations that might go to far.

Fern

My fear is that we are already too far along that path and that it is only a matter of time before NK does push hard enough to start an actual conflict.
The show of force with the B-2s buys time, but doesn't stop the clock from ticking.

 

[waggy]

And you think for some reason they aren't going to underplay/distort/hide this incident as well?

Seriously.. what the heck are we doing playing South Korea's "big brother" anyway? Don't we have our own borders to protect?

hahah

you know damn well its not in the GOP or DNC to secure the boarder.

but that is one thing that alwasy bother me. we can put the military on other countries boarders but they don't want them on the US boarder? wtf. shouldn't be protecting the nation be part of its job?


as for the flight over it don't bother me in all honesty. Its a good reminder of the might of US. also as other said they need to have so many hours of piloting to keep license up.

This has me less bothered on the "waste" then the recent trips by members of the Government.

 

[DaveSimmons]

I'm OK with this since NK has nukes, has threatened us, and is acting as the beta tester for Iran's long-range missile technology. They also have much less to lose since the elites don't really care about the safety of their citizens.