Axis of Evil

[Hayabusa Rider]

Iranian excludes reformers yet again for elections.

From the 1990's until the Axis speech, reformers outnumbered the conservative religious candidates allowed to run for office, reversing a trend favorable to us.

Iran had been moving in a direction favorable to us, but words DO matter. Whether his intent or not, Bush called an entire nation of people evil who promptly decided they didn't like that. The apologists will say he was referring to the leadership, however an 8 year old could see that's how it would be taken.

Another blunder that will take decades to remedy.

 

[StageLeft]

Be patient, it just takes a little time. Ostracizing Cuba worked, didn't it? Just took a while, 4-5 decades, but now it's a democratic poster child.

 

[bamacre]

It is a damn shame because the majority of Iranians enjoy the western lifestyle, or at least tend to reject the Islamic rule. Being just a little patient with Iran, and dealing with them in a much less aggressive manner could have made Iran another good friend in the ME in 10-20 years. The nut cases are old, and are a huge minority.

 

[superstition]

Bush should have been impeached for that comment alone. It's ridiculous for a President to do such reckless sabre rattling.

 

[Genx87]

You really believe his speech is what set those relgious leaders to limit who gets to run for what? Those zealots were only going to let progress go so far before they smacked it down. Iran isnt a democracy.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Iran isnt a democracy.

It used to be.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Genx87
You really believe his speech is what set those relgious leaders to limit who gets to run for what? Those zealots were only going to let progress go so far before they smacked it down. Iran isnt a democracy.

While that may be true, you can't deny that there was certainly a turn towards hardliners after the speech.

Couple that with us telling Iran to piss off when they offered to help us in Afghanistan, led them to up their paranoia quotient just a tad.

 

[Nitemare]

they have an elected ruler that openly admits to not believing in the Holocaust. What do you expect?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
they have an elected ruler that openly admits to not believing in the Holocaust. What do you expect?

You think that's bad, we elected a dumbfuck who believes "God" told him to invade Iraq.:shocked:

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Genx87
Iran isnt a democracy.

It used to be.

Sure, back in the Carter administration.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Genx87
You really believe his speech is what set those relgious leaders to limit who gets to run for what? Those zealots were only going to let progress go so far before they smacked it down. Iran isnt a democracy.

While that may be true, you can't deny that there was certainly a turn towards hardliners after the speech.

Couple that with us telling Iran to piss off when they offered to help us in Afghanistan, led them to up their paranoia quotient just a tad.

Oh right. Give me a break. These zealots werent going to let the people have any kind of real power. To believe a stupid speech is what set them off is a huge leap of faith.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Genx87
You really believe his speech is what set those relgious leaders to limit who gets to run for what? Those zealots were only going to let progress go so far before they smacked it down. Iran isnt a democracy.

While that may be true, you can't deny that there was certainly a turn towards hardliners after the speech.

Couple that with us telling Iran to piss off when they offered to help us in Afghanistan, led them to up their paranoia quotient just a tad.

Oh right. Give me a break. These zealots werent going to let the people have any kind of real power. To believe a stupid speech is what set them off is a huge leap of faith.

That is not the point. Nobody is going to give the people anything they don't take and demand. What ClusterBush did was drive the people to circle the wagons around the extremists.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Genx87
You really believe his speech is what set those relgious leaders to limit who gets to run for what? Those zealots were only going to let progress go so far before they smacked it down. Iran isnt a democracy.

While that may be true, you can't deny that there was certainly a turn towards hardliners after the speech.

Couple that with us telling Iran to piss off when they offered to help us in Afghanistan, led them to up their paranoia quotient just a tad.

Oh right. Give me a break. These zealots werent going to let the people have any kind of real power. To believe a stupid speech is what set them off is a huge leap of faith.

I don't think anyone here is claiming things would 100% rosy with Iran if this speech and the ensuing sabre rattling didn't occur. However, we basically called them out and said you're next, this caused a marked shift in their attitudes towards us.

It scared Libya straight, which is good, but it had the opposite effect with Iran.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Nitemare
they have an elected ruler that openly admits to not believing in the Holocaust. What do you expect?

You think that's bad, we elected a dumbfuck who believes "God" told him to invade Iraq.:shocked:

isn't China giving one way flights to the moon yet?

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Iran had been moving in a direction favorable to us, but words DO matter. Whether his intent or not, Bush called an entire nation of people evil who promptly decided they didn't like that. The apologists will say he was referring to the leadership, however an 8 year old could see that's how it would be taken.

Interesting. When their president calls for genocide against Israel and touts their nuclear program, liberals say he's merely referring to the government or leadership. Guess that makes the liberals here Iranian apologists.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Iran had been moving in a direction favorable to us, but words DO matter. Whether his intent or not, Bush called an entire nation of people evil who promptly decided they didn't like that. The apologists will say he was referring to the leadership, however an 8 year old could see that's how it would be taken.

Interesting. When their president calls for genocide against Israel and touts their nuclear program, liberals say he's merely referring to the government or leadership. Guess that makes the liberals here Iranian apologists.

Interesting thing about the President that Bush helped install. He was fairly marginalized, going on about how the US hated Iranians. Well he didn't do all that well until Bush "proved" he was right. Once Bush made his declaration, then the tide turned in his favor.

Only an idiot could screw up Iran, and we provided one in spades.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Genx87
You really believe his speech is what set those relgious leaders to limit who gets to run for what? Those zealots were only going to let progress go so far before they smacked it down. Iran isnt a democracy.

While that may be true, you can't deny that there was certainly a turn towards hardliners after the speech.

Couple that with us telling Iran to piss off when they offered to help us in Afghanistan, led them to up their paranoia quotient just a tad.

Oh right. Give me a break. These zealots werent going to let the people have any kind of real power. To believe a stupid speech is what set them off is a huge leap of faith.

No because it wasn't "faith" at all. The news was full of reports about reformists being removed from power. It wasn't in the Carter era, but in the 90's forward until about 2003 that the reformers were making progress. Bush put a stake right through their hearts.

Take a look at what Saddam thumbing his nose at the US did. The French when they disapproved of our actions in Iraq. Freedoms Fries.

No, words do have consequences, and today's Iran largely is a result of the domino effect of Bush's stupidity.

 

[imported_Baloo]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Genx87
Iran isnt a democracy.

It used to be.

Sure, back in the Carter administration.

Uh, no, you have to go back further:

"In 1953 the United States played a significant role in orchestrating the overthrow of Iran's popular Prime Minister, Mohammed Massadegh. The Eisenhower Administration believed its actions were justified for strategic reasons; but the coup was clearly a setback for Iran's political development. And it is easy to see now why many Iranians continue to resent this intervention by America in their internal affairs." [1

 

[poohbear]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
they have an elected ruler that openly admits to not believing in the Holocaust. What do you expect?

which holocaust? rwanda, bosnia, armenia, china during invasion by japan? jews were'nt the only ones killed in large numbers in the 20th century, although they seem to crave that attention everytime somebody critisizes israel. i can't stand how western conservatives hate political correctness but they're so politically correct about the jewish "holocaust". hypocrites.