Awesome Open World MMORPG "Identity" on Kickstarter

[Craig234]

Until you realize that all those female characters are just a bunch of nasty dudes behind the model. I guess that's par for the course for a good chunk of MMOs though.

Why would it be actual women? Would you find having sex with several men you don't know a day to be an attractive thing? It's why nearly all actual prostitutes are drug addicts, controlled by forces from the addiction to poverty to pimps - it's almost always nothing more than horrible and inhumane exploitation, rape by means other than direct force. You wouldn't like it - so why do it to others? That's why San Francisco has a very effective program for first-time arrested Johns to 'learn the truth' about the harm.

Now, as a fantasy for a game - that's another thing, many people can have that fantasy, but the real thing shouldn't be romanticized.

 

[Stringjam]

Why would it be actual women? Would you find having sex with several men you don't know a day to be an attractive thing? It's why nearly all actual prostitutes are drug addicts, controlled by forces from the addiction to poverty to pimps - it's almost always nothing more than horrible and inhumane exploitation, rape by means other than direct force. You wouldn't like it - so why do it to others? That's why San Francisco has a very effective program for first-time arrested Johns to 'learn the truth' about the harm.

Now, as a fantasy for a game - that's another thing, many people can have that fantasy, but the real thing shouldn't be romanticized.

Ummm....I think we have a bit of misinterpretation here. I was taking a stab at the ridiculousness of it - not romanticizing it.

I'm fully aware of what the face of prostitution (and sex trafficking) is all about.

 

[flexy]

They don't let you sell bootleg DVDs on a street corner because there is no code for that.

Skyrim needed DLC filled with code to let you build a house and in a very limited way adopt kids. You couldn't teach those kids to play soccer or fish, there was no code for that.

You must realize that it's NOT the "addition of code" which will make for more flexibility and liberties but exactly the opposite of it!

Another example:

There does not need to be "code" say which enables me to sell certain, items, in your example DVDs...or...whatever, say, items which would be rare to collect but nevertheless could play an integral role in the game.

EXAMPLE: rocks or bricks....which someone needs to collect....to build houses.

All there needs to be is a general code which enables trading, eg. exchanging of goods for money.

ONE person might spend his life in the game collecting bricks so he decides to become a builder which offers to build other people's virtual houses. (For a nice some of money in exchange of course).

The beauty of this is that there is no "specialized" code required (minus essentials that can apply to objects, such as that you can take them, own them, exchange them etc.)...and there are not even pre-set rules required, not even prices for items.

If an item, say, a brick to build homes is rare, someone can just spend time collecting them. He/She can set their own price if someone else wants one, he/she can set their price when they build a house for someone. (Or he can just build a house for someone in exchange for a car, stuff like that : )

The key here is that less limits and less code means MORE flexibility in what you can do!!

 

[flexy]

This would only work if there are consequences. In real life, death is the consequence. If you want to be a king-pin and get people to work for you, what's stopping them from just killing you? If you kill them, they just respawn? Until we're enlightened upon this point, they don't deserve backing.

Of course, using a weapon against someone would have a consequence. But this is merely a matter how it's implemented. "Death" could mean you are temporarily unable to play for an hour...or..you get scars...are you lose some sort of points etc...as long as "death" (and being threatened with a weapon) has some sort of negative consequence so that the idea of giving the perpetrator money (say, during a robbery) is the more attractive alternative as whatever consequence the weapon will have.

King-Pin:
If the king-pin owns a lot of money which is locked to him, the king-pin can "pay" his employees. For his gangsters it can be a better alternative to work for the king-pin than to kill him. BUT OF COURSE...a scenario where gangsters would gang-up against their boss...is also thinkable, if for some reason they would want to get-rid of the king-pin, replace him etc...why not? I don't see the problem.

 

[Rakehellion]

You must realize that it's NOT the "addition of code" which will make for more flexibility and liberties but exactly the opposite of it!

Another example:

There does not need to be "code" say which enables me to sell certain, items, in your example DVDs...or...whatever, say, items which would be rare to collect but nevertheless could play an integral role in the game.

EXAMPLE: rocks or bricks....which someone needs to collect....to build houses.

All there needs to be is a general code which enables trading, eg. exchanging of goods for money.

Yes, pretty much every game has a marketplace, but if you want to do something more original than grind endlessly, there will need to be code for that.

 

[Rakehellion]

Of course, using a weapon against someone would have a consequence. But this is merely a matter how it's implemented. "Death" could mean you are temporarily unable to play for an hour...or..you get scars...are you lose some sort of points etc...as long as "death" (and being threatened with a weapon) has some sort of negative consequence so that the idea of giving the perpetrator money (say, during a robbery) is the more attractive alternative as whatever consequence the weapon will have.

King-Pin:
If the king-pin owns a lot of money which is locked to him, the king-pin can "pay" his employees. For his gangsters it can be a better alternative to work for the king-pin than to kill him. BUT OF COURSE...a scenario where gangsters would gang-up against their boss...is also thinkable, if for some reason they would want to get-rid of the king-pin, replace him etc...why not? I don't see the problem.

Wow, you're really romanticizing this. Seems like you know more about this game than the developers do, judging by the empty video.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Flexy I'd love to see a game like this work and be a crap ton of fun however over the years gamers have been promised truly open worlds where you can do anything you want and none of them have panned out many of them ended up being complete garbage. My opinion may change once they release something else to judge the game by today it sounds like empty promises.

 

[psychosiz]

I don't see anywhere near enough in terms of game play and anything else relevant in terms of justifying monies. I hope this game does turn out to be great but how many times have heard this in the past.

 

[PowerYoga]

sounds like a bunch of things you want to happen as opposed to what's actually there.

no demo no gameplay not even a video, a bunch of hot air and them wanting to build a mmorpg for 150k.

pass.

 

[DaveSimmons]

You must realize that it's NOT the "addition of code" which will make for more flexibility and liberties but exactly the opposite of it!

Another example:

There does not need to be "code" say which enables me to sell certain, items, in your example DVDs...or...whatever, say, items which would be rare to collect but nevertheless could play an integral role in the game.

EXAMPLE: rocks or bricks....which someone needs to collect....to build houses.

All there needs to be is a general code which enables trading, eg. exchanging of goods for money.

ONE person might spend his life in the game collecting bricks so he decides to become a builder which offers to build other people's virtual houses. (For a nice some of money in exchange of course).

The beauty of this is that there is no "specialized" code required (minus essentials that can apply to objects, such as that you can take them, own them, exchange them etc.)...and there are not even pre-set rules required, not even prices for items.

If an item, say, a brick to build homes is rare, someone can just spend time collecting them. He/She can set their own price if someone else wants one, he/she can set their price when they build a house for someone. (Or he can just build a house for someone in exchange for a car, stuff like that : )

The key here is that less limits and less code means MORE flexibility in what you can do!!

The engine needs a database of every object. For single player a modder could add bricks or mortar. but for a shared world there needs to be a shared model.

The engine needs to "understand" how to combine bricks into a house. Maybe you're thinking this will be a Lego world like Minecraft, where you can snap together blocks to make anything (that just sits there), but that isn't the world described earlier and is much more limited -- you can build brick houses but not put a microwave oven in them. Or even make a concrete building. Nope, just stacking snap-together bricks.

Everything you see in a Sims game works because of object-specific code.

There are physics engines, but they don't "understand" toasters or DVD players or using a blender or making pottery.

Ever notice that most games with destructible objects have limits on what can and can't be destroyed, and the "fancier" destruction is usually scripted?

The game you're imagining is like wanting a text adventure that really understands human language instead of a simple parser that picks out pre-coded keywords.

If the developers had many years and hundreds of millions they could deliver a "real world simulation sandbox" with a database of tens of thousands of objects and millions of interactions. But the simulation probably still wouldn't understand "time flies like an arrow" without hard-coding it.

 

[DaveSimmons]

And it gets worse: that's just the objects in the world.

In current sandbox games, non-player people only do what they are scripted to do. Walk in a scripted path from home to shop or around a town, fight any bandits they see, talk about mudcrabs. There is some"emergent" behavior from randomly generated NPCs, but the reactions of the named NPCs are still very limited and scripted (fight, flee, etc.)

If you decide you want to become Chief Inspect Puffin of the Yard, the NPCs won't have the right scripting to react to it. Showing your badge will have no effect. Trying to arrest an NPC won't work. Yelling "enhance!" while watching surveillance footage will not zoom in on a person's face and show more detail. Unless someone adds the code for it.

 

[flexy]

Wow, you're really romanticizing this. Seems like you know more about this game than the developers do, judging by the empty video.

I know as much about this game as you do, I have no affiliation with them.

However what I know is that me and some friends *wanted* to make a game like this and this is already 20 years ago, in a time where even games like WoW etc. were still "far in the future".

I think the makers and this kickstarter deserves to be supported because those guys, even when their ambitions might be unrealistic etc. know something which MANY game makers (and also players!) seem to have forgotten.

You just need to look at WHY games like WoW etc. have become so bad...and look at almost any random new game released today. Games have become pathetic and streamlimed where pre-set and pre-scripted events and quicktime sequences have replaced what this is supposed to be all about...in the case of a game like a MMORPG it would be exploring, adventuring etc...as opposed to setting your clock to a certain time so you can log-on to do your "dailies". And from the description of this game...those guys KNOW what a good game with a true open world would really need and what not.

I *wished* back in the time, in the late 90s when we wanted to make such a game something like "Kickstarter" would have existed. I remember we were talking over the money side of things and the only option back then was getting sponsored by a company such as Coca Cola etc.

 

[ewdotson]

But will it have fetuspults?

 

[DaveSimmons]

From the description it sounds like they are currently working on 3-6 main jobs: cops, robbers, drug dealers, truck driver, generic shop owner. With some side grinds like "harvest a fish."

Again, you'll only be able to do the jobs that they code into the game, except for when you can get other live players to role-play some activity with you. And you can already do that in pretty much every other MMO.

And for the jobs they offer, you'll be limited to doing them the way the code supports doing them. They might code up robbing a store at gunpoint, but not doing a cat burglar wire and harness museum heist. No laser fence and weight sensor. And no code for fencing the 80-carat Star of Puffin that you just lifted.

There is no "simulate the whole world" engine out there, except in the lego sense of Minecraft where the simulation level is snapping together shapes.

 

[Rakehellion]

I know as much about this game as you do, I have no affiliation with them.

However what I know is that me and some friends *wanted* to make a game like this and this is already 20 years ago, in a time where even games like WoW etc. were still "far in the future".

I think the makers and this kickstarter deserves to be supported because those guys, even when their ambitions might be unrealistic etc. know something which MANY game makers (and also players!) seem to have forgotten.

You just need to look at WHY games like WoW etc. have become so bad...and look at almost any random new game released today. Games have become pathetic and streamlimed where pre-set and pre-scripted events and quicktime sequences have replaced what this is supposed to be all about...in the case of a game like a MMORPG it would be exploring, adventuring etc...as opposed to setting your clock to a certain time so you can log-on to do your "dailies". And from the description of this game...those guys KNOW what a good game with a true open world would really need and what not.

I *wished* back in the time, in the late 90s when we wanted to make such a game something like "Kickstarter" would have existed. I remember we were talking over the money side of things and the only option back then was getting sponsored by a company such as Coca Cola etc.

If you've read this thread at all then what you've seen repeatedly is:
1. It's been done before.
2. It doesn't work.
3. These guys have ZERO original ideas.

Vaporware.

 

[xantub]

Instanced gaming isn't inherently a bad thing. Nobody likes waiting around for 24 hours for a quest mob that is only available in one spot in a game. Doubly so when some asshat griefer killsteals it.

To be honest, separating out pvp and pve into separate zones has been the best thing for MMO's since ever. I'm not one bit sorry you can't go around ganking people that are trying to get their quests done all the time anymore. People like that need to be playing Call of Duty.

Totally agree with you there. I actually love instances. There's nothing more immersion breaking than going into a deep, hidden cave with your fellow adventurers, make a turn in the cave with your torch, and find... 12 people in a line waiting for a mob to spawn.

I much prefer instances. In fact, probably the MMO I had the most fun of all those I played (and I played a lot of them) was City of Heroes. Missions on hard difficulty setting in a full group was extremely fun.

 

[Blanky]

Interesting idea, though I'd need to learn more. Of course, I will never play this. If it's as good as they say it would be a catastrophic time sink and not compatible with a productive person's life.

 

[imaheadcase]

The Sims success seems to say people do like "everyday", i sure don't, and yes the SIMS is not very realistic. My point is, never assume what some people will like.

The sims is a single player game, and its debatable how successful it was after the first one.

 

[quakeworld]

like someone said earlier... sounds like a souped up second life at this point

 

[greenhawk]

sounds like ... second life at this point

+1

 

[Bateluer]

Skimming their KS sets off several red flags for me. They have no demo, no gameplay, nothing of substance to show off. By their own words, they've only been working on it for several months. MMOs take years to develop, and there's no way they're going to be able to do it on 150K. Even if thats just see money to get started, they're going to need several times that by the time all is said and done.

And then there's this:

No subscription fees and never pay-to-win.

So . . . how do you plan on making money to pay for your developers, infrastructure, advertising, etc?

 

[MeldarthX]

Ultima Online tried the freedom thing and ended up with gank squads and other griefers ruining it for the people that wanted to play a MMO fantasy game.

Also, coding for real "complete freedom" isn't practical. If (for example) you want to be a police detective who solves crimes in his spare time, the game engine needs to have code in it written to support that. There needs to be code for making the crimes happen, code for you to conduct investigations, code for your Scooby Doo moment when you pull the mask off of the Phantom of the Carwash, code for locking them up. Code, code and more code.

Sandbox games like GTA and Saints Row have code to let you do a half-dozen things like take cash registers, rob, kill, carjack. They don't let you sell bootleg DVDs on a street corner because there is no code for that.

Skyrim needed DLC filled with code to let you build a house and in a very limited way adopt kids. You couldn't teach those kids to play soccer or fish, there was no code for that.

So, they are making promise checks that their code is unlikely to be able to cash.

You're right on the coding but on my shard my guild hunted those bastards down and killed them; we were one of the most feared PK hunting guilds during our time *also helped our sister guild; was PKer murdering guild* so if we couldn't get them; they could That was a blast until they fooked up crafting and nerfed it. I as one of the first grandmaster smiths; I made so much gold for my items and then completely bottomed which the changes....that's when I quit...

 

[PrincessFrosty]

So, they are making promise checks that their code is unlikely to be able to cash.

Yeah it sounds like they're aiming for a wide range of diverse mini games all in one large open world, non of which are likely to have any significant depth.

As you point out, open worlds with little to no rules often turn into gank fests, people abusing mechanics, player run economics tends to be manipulated/cheated, unfairly played or run into the ground.

It's an alright idea, if it was backed by a major company with a SWTOR type budget it could be really fun, kinda like a multiplayer GTA with full economy and whatnot, but a kick starter campaign will never get be able to deliver on these kinds of promises.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Only zombo.com lets you do anything, anything at all.

The KS would be more credible with a sharply narrowed focus like "Cops vs. Mobbers" instead of claiming it will offer everything to everyone. It sounds like that's the only part they've thought much about anyway.

Cops, mobbers, "and trade negotiations."

 

[Rakehellion]

Skimming their KS sets off several red flags for me. They have no demo, no gameplay, nothing of substance to show off. By their own words, they've only been working on it for several months. MMOs take years to develop, and there's no way they're going to be able to do it on 150K. Even if thats just see money to get started, they're going to need several times that by the time all is said and done.

And then there's this:


So . . . how do you plan on making money to pay for your developers, infrastructure, advertising, etc?

Looks like they're trying to pay off student loans abd leave their investors in the dust.