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Aw great, another story about how cops are gun happy

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randomlinh

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,853
2
0
linh.wordpress.com
ok, i woulda shot too if i was a cop and something resembling a gun was pointed at me. But where the hell did he shoot him, in his head?!?! I would have first gone for the legs and disable him... are there any specifics to where the actor was shot?
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
Skoorb

Cops in iceland dont have guns, and in majority of europe they hardly ever have to use them, that is in those countrys who have guns. Thats because we "gun control".
 

DAM

Diamond Member
Jan 10, 2000
6,102
1
76
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/halloweenshooting001029_B.html



The officers arrived about 1 a.m. Saturday and were
searching for the owner. Hopper looked through a glass
door and saw Lee and two other people in a small room,
Broughton said.



according to this, the officer was inside the house, where was his warrant??? im sorry but cops are not allowed to come inside homes unless with sign paperwork. or if they are invited. the problem with the stories that im going through it doesnt say that the cop was invited it or not....there are many details that im sure they are not telling.




dam()
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Czar

That's about the size of it. And why shouldn't they? If a cops life is in danger, then certainly those around him are in danger also. And an officers duty is to serve and protect, is it not? If somebody next to me has a gun and doesn't seem afraid to use it, I'd prefer the cop shoot the perp before the perp shoots me.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
czar

Yes czar, any cop feeling his life, or somebody else's is in danger has that right, and if I was a cop I would expect to have it too. ANYBODY has that right, not just cops.

lnguyen

As I mentioned police are not really trained to "stop but not kill" a suspect with a gun. If they shoot they shoot to kill because "aiming for the legs" is too risky. Just because your leg is shot off doesn't mean you are unable to still shoot the gun in your hand. In some circumstances this is possible but as a general rule of thumb police are trained to shoot-to-kill.

Dam Perhaps the cop was invited in? I mean if he goes to the door looking for owner and all he sees is party people, he isn't looking to search the house, just speak to the owner. Its a big party he thought to go in...
 

403Forbidden

Banned
May 4, 2000
2,268
0
0


<< Yes czar, any cop feeling his life, or somebody else's is in danger has that right, and if I was a cop I would expect to have it too. ANYBODY has that right, not just cops. >>



However, the cop (or anyone else) has to have a REASONABLE fear for their
life before killing another person.

Who decides what is &quot;reasonable fear&quot;? The jury. They will look at the surrounding
circumstances. The fact that it was a halloween party and the cop was snooping around
doesn't bode too well for the trigger happy cop.




 

geno

Lifer
Dec 26, 1999
25,074
4
0
That whole thing is completely rediculous, I'm sure that cop feels much better now that he protected everyone from a plastic gun...
 

whateverdude

Senior member
Oct 6, 2000
514
0
0
Should the cop have waited until he had a gaping chest wound before firing?

he was standing looking through a window. it is his DUTY to make sure of the circumstances before unloading on someone. he could've dove out of the way if he wasn't sure. its even worse if he was actually INSIDE the house where he could see people walking around in costumes.



whateverdude what are you talking about cop should not have been peeping through the window? He was walking into the building and looked up...he wasn't &quot;peeping&quot;. If that is peeping I peep at people as they drive by.

according to the USAToday, the officer was looking through the window, not walking by it. if thats wrong, blame them.

whateverdude: i really dont think this is a racial issue, the cop who shot the actor was also black.

So you would make this statement if the cop was white?

he was COP and he saw a black man with a gun. the cops race is irrelevant, hes a COP. in this racially charged country, a blackman with a gun is a criminal...according to the cops, whether white or black.

and one another note, when the man pointed the gun at the cop, if the cop did not have his gun pulled, then it wouldve taken him at least 2 or 3 secs to pull his gun, aim and fire. by then, the cop couldve realized the man was not going to shoot because he wouldve done so by then. did the cop already have his gun pulled? why? begs questions....
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
Skoorb

So, if I met you in real life and then I had a gun, and I just thought to myself &quot;oh no its skoorb, he might kill me&quot; then just shot you about 12 times. I would then just tell everyone that that microsoft mouse you were holding was so scary that I was afraid for my life. I had the right.
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,157
0
0
First off, this has absolutely nothing to do with race -- anyone who says so is an idiot and just trying to drum up the &quot;race card&quot; with the LAPD. I am quite positive that the entire LAPD is not racist, and I would bet especially that the black officers are not. So STFU about that already.

Second, perhaps the officers went to the front door, but no one answered? Also, since they received a noise complaint, they were probably trying to assess the extent of it by looking around the house. It's difficult to say without more information.



<< he was standing looking through a window. it is his DUTY to make sure of the circumstances before unloading on someone. >>


WTF? Someone pulls a gun on a cop, and it's his duty to assess the situation calmly and collectedly while his life is about to end (potentially)? Bullsh|t. The cop has the right to defend his life if he feels it's threatened. The guy who was killed was apparently NOT in a costume, at least not one that would lend itself to having a gun (black shirt, tan pants) so it wasn't like he was dressed as a soldier and was carrying a plastic M-16.

What I love about this discussion is that people sit their fat asses in their office chairs and critisize a cop for defending himself when he puts his life on the line every day when he goes to work. Dying is a very real possibility for a police officer, much more so than an IT worker or an office worker. It's fine and dandy to say, &quot;Oh, I would have done X instead of Y.&quot; Well, you weren't out there, and since the LAPD is completely villified right now, it's quite easy to imagine this officer as being painted in the worst possible light by the reporting press since that maintains their witch hunt and sells more papers. Keep in mind that the allegations against the LAPD involve setting up convictions, not killing people. We can leave that to psychopaths like OJ -- oh, wait, the LAPD, the Sheriff's office, and the DA are all racist so he's innocent.

DAM: Read the article you cite a little better. Here's the relevant portion:

<< Lee saw Hopper outside and allegedly pointed the toy gun in his direction, she added. >>

 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
czar

Honestly I must ask, what are you talking about? How does a Microsoft Mouse possibly pose the same threat as a gun. Sure it was not a gun, but it looked like one. An MS mouse wouldn't look like a gun unless it was really really dark, or you were fairly blind :p
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
Skoorb

Well, the intellieye explorer might look like a gun, all metal looking and even has a laser sight ;) I was just refering to another story where a cop killed a deaf and mute man holding a rake, he thought is life was in danger. But lets not get into that story, has been dealt with by the Anandtech Forum.
 

whateverdude

Senior member
Oct 6, 2000
514
0
0
andrewR, the point I was making is that it was a party around halloween, either the cop didnt know it was a party or he didnt care. either way, that shouldve been taken into consideration when he assessed the situation.

they DO NOT have the right to enter the house either without a warrant or being invited in. so if he went in without being invited or warranted, then it was an ILLEGAL entry.

I dont neccessarily think the cop was in the wrong to &quot;defend&quot; himself, but the situation stinks. snooping around the house, entering illegally, etc...

The guy who was killed was apparently NOT in a costume, at least not one that would lend itself to having a gun (black shirt, tan pants) so it wasn't like he was dressed as a soldier and was carrying a plastic M-16.

please show a source for this, no story I have looked at stated anything about whether he was a wearing a costume or not.

also,

and one another note, when the man pointed the gun at the cop, if the cop did not have his gun pulled, then it wouldve taken him at least 2 or 3 secs to pull his gun, aim and fire. by then, the cop couldve realized the man was not going to shoot because he wouldve done so by then. did the cop already have his gun pulled? why? when the cop saw the gun, why didnt he just dive out of the way?that would definitely be my first reaction. begs questions....
 

JasonG

Senior member
Oct 9, 1999
252
0
0
Being a cop is a risky job. I'm sure they understand that going in. But it doesn't give them the right to kill anyone who has a gun (or something that looks like a gun).

Cops have killed kids with toy guns before as well in the past.

Cops are supposed to be trained to use force only when absolutely necessary!

Look at that guy in NY that was killed because he was pulling his wallet out of his pocket. He got shot how many times?

This guy was at a Holloween party!

Cops do not have a license to kill indiscriminately.

It could be you who gets shot next by a cop. It's not always the other guy.

I don't think anyone who's white can understand what it's like to be black and under constant fear of police brutality (I certainly can't).

Look at all the racial profiling that goes on in this country!

Wake up people!

Jason
 

AudioBitch

Member
Oct 15, 2000
46
0
0
a cop is not even allowed to walk around a house...he must go to the door....he's not supposed to be peeping into windows
the call was for excessive noise, he should have gone straight to the front door and asked the people to quiet down.
there is no need to look around back or peek into windows, he should have knocked

in florida, my neighbors were having an outdoor party, with alcohol and drugs. We called the police, but they claimed they were not allowed to enter the house, or go around to the backyard without a permit. The people were allowed to do whatever they wanted to on their property

besides, one or two shots is enough, not a full magazine. This cop wanted to rip this guy apart. Not just stop him from shooting. Maybe if he had less bullet wounds, he would have lived. Cops are trained to use discretion with their firearms. They arent supposed to use a full magazine on a person who is unprotected, and not a huge threat.
 

403Forbidden

Banned
May 4, 2000
2,268
0
0
The cop is not even supposed to be peeping into windows. The only way he can
be legally looking into windows is if he case see through the window
while standing on the sidewalk.

Walking unto the lawn or any other private property area in order to look into the
windows is plainly illegal.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
whateverdude

Dive out the way? DIVE OUT OF THE WAY? Get your sorry fat ass off the couch loser, you watch too many movies. Dive out of the fscking way, what a moron.
 

whateverdude

Senior member
Oct 6, 2000
514
0
0
bober:

my first reaction if I saw someone pointing a gun in my direction is NOT to stand there! im gonna MOVE...as swiftly as I can to get out of the way of that bullet!

that is why I think the cop ALREADY had his gun pulled. if he DID NOT have his gun pulled, he wouldve dove out of the way because someone who already has a gun trained on them will kill them before they can pull their weapon and fire. the cop knows this. that is also why I think Mr. Lee pointed his gun at the cop, because he saw that the cop had a gun in his hand. he was probably &quot;playing&quot; bad guy to the &quot;cop&quot; he thought was dressed in a costume. he was wrong wasnt he
 

403Forbidden

Banned
May 4, 2000
2,268
0
0
no worries...that cop will have a lot of time to practice &quot;diving out of the way&quot;
when he's locked up in a cell with Mr. Happy hahahahahaha
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
403, before you said this:

<< Who decides what is &quot;reasonable fear&quot;? The jury. >>

So then what you think really doesn't matter. Sounds like you want to lock him up without a fair trial. Who's the fascist around here? Sounds like it's you?

whateverdude

Again, dive out of the way? First you couldn't. If you'd like to try that little manuever, feel free to join me at the range sometime. I'll aim at you, and you try to dodge my fire. Get fscking real. A cop is not instructed to dive out of the way when somebody has a weapon. If a person is armed, it is assumed they intend to shoot. If the cop runs and hides, somebody's going to get shot, likely an innocent bystander. I'd much rather see the perp (or possible perp) blown away than either the cop or an innocent taking a bullet.
 

403Forbidden

Banned
May 4, 2000
2,268
0
0


<< So then what you think really doesn't matter. >>



Same for you dude.




<< Sounds like you want to lock him up without a fair trial. Who's the fascist around here? Sounds like it's you? >>




Uh...so I am a fascist because I am stating my OPINION? My opinion is that he will be
locked up after a fair trail. What's so fascist about that?





 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,272
103
106
Ah yes, a bunch of morons around here fancy themselves experts on the law and what a cop should or should not be doing..... If you don't know what the exact laws are regarding what the cop can or can't be doing while investigating a complaint, don't open your yap about it.

What happened is very unfortunate, but if a cop sees someone pull a gun on him or her they are trained to react and bring the subject down, then ask questions.

<<when the cop saw the gun, why didnt he just dive out of the way?that would definitely be my first reaction.>>

This isn't some game of quake, you have no friggin' clue what it's like to be in the line of fire, you have no idea what the circumstances were, and you have no idea what your 'first reaction' would have been. Probably you would pee your pants and take a dump in your undies....

 

Croton

Banned
Jan 18, 2000
5,030
0
0
i would have just strafed and picked up a medkit on the way out of that corridor.

or maybe do a rocket jump out of there.

yeah
 

bigvince

Banned
Aug 25, 2000
1,201
0
0
well ive been shot at plenty of times and i have to tell you the first thing that i think of when a gun is pointed at me is 1)if i have a gun do i have enough time to soot him first? and 2)(if i dont have a gun) f'uckin run! so being that i have been in said situation and knowing what might go through someones head i can see how a cop would shoot first. but being a cop you would think that his training would kick in and tell him not to shoot into a crowd of people....
 

rmeijer

Member
Oct 3, 2000
133
0
0

Wow. I fear some folks' vision of what a safe democratic society means in modern America:

Cops can kill indiscrimately if they are scared.
Everyone should own guns to protect themselves against folks that scare them.

What happens when folks are scared of cops and cops are scared of regular citizens...? Better learn how to draw fast.
 

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