Auto-worker's union hates the environment

[Stunt]

Canadian Auto Worker's president Buzz Hargrove has come out swinging saying that voters should kick finance minister Jim Flaherty out of office in the next election. The conservative government implemented a tax on large suv's (gas guzzlers) and created an incentive for people to buy fuel efficient vehicles. Because the Japanese and Korean automakers have a more broad lineup of fuel efficient cars, the CAW feels this was a jab at domestically produced cars. As if the finance minister is trying to eliminate jobs and kill domestic production of cars.

I see the credit as an incentive for the domestics to get off their asses and make better compact and hybrid vehicles. The irrational union mindset shows through yet again. Here's hoping the CAW never represents the Honda and Toyota manufacturing plants here in Canada!

link

Hargrove calls for ouster of Flaherty
ST. JOHN'S, N.L. (CP) - The head of Canada's largest private sector union says Finance Minister Jim Flaherty should be voted out in the next federal election over a contentious program that offers rebates for fuel-efficient vehicles.

Canadian Auto Workers president Buzz Hargrove says the so-called "feebate" program, which also penalizes customers who buy gas guzzlers, encourages Canadians to purchase foreign vehicles and would further decimate the domestic auto industry.

Hargrove told a gathering of nearly 1,000 CAW delegates in St. John's, N.L., today that the union would put resources into a campaign to ensure that Flaherty is not re-elected.

Flaherty represents the Ontario riding of Whitby-Oshawa, home to General Motors' biggest manufacturing operation.

Hargrove says the rebate measures in this year's spring budget puts domestic automakers at an unfair disadvantage.

The program in the budget allows for a rebate up to $2,000 on purchases of fuel-efficient cars and a tax on sales of the worst gas guzzlers that tops out at $4,000.

 

[Vette73]

I wish we do that here in the US. But the big 3 US makers would not allow that for the same reason.

 

[theeedude]

I think it's a good idea if accompanied with a tariff on import cars to compensate for the fact that it is punishing the domestic auto industry.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: senseamp
I think it's a good idea if accompanied with a tariff on import cars to compensate for the fact that it is punishing the domestic auto industry.

The domestics punished themselves by making a ton of SUV's while gas prices were on the rise and people want more environmentally friendly vehicles.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: senseamp
I think it's a good idea if accompanied with a tariff on import cars to compensate for the fact that it is punishing the domestic auto industry.

So all those Toyota and Hondas that are made in the US would not get the tariff? Yet all those Chevys and Fords that are made in Canada and Mexico would have to pay?

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: senseamp
I think it's a good idea if accompanied with a tariff on import cars to compensate for the fact that it is punishing the domestic auto industry.

So much for a free market won through quality products instead of legislation.

 

[theeedude]

Now is not the time to steal money from domestic car buyers to give it to import car buyers.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Now is not the time to steal money from domestic car buyers to give it to import car buyers.

How so. Toyota and others would have the same Fee/Tax put on their trucks and SUVs as well. This does not punish American made cars/trucks but those that don;t meet a certain standard in terms of gas milage and such.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: senseamp
Now is not the time to steal money from domestic car buyers to give it to import car buyers.

How so. Toyota and others would have the same Fee/Tax put on their trucks and SUVs as well. This does not punish American made cars/trucks but those that don;t meet a certain standard in terms of gas milage and such.

It is tailored to favor Toyota's current lineup. Changing rules in the middle of the game. Just because most people want domestic trucks over Toyota's doesn't mean domestics need to be punished for it. Also, impact on domestic industry should be foremost in the minds of politicians, especially ones from districts with domestic auto manufacturing.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: senseamp
Now is not the time to steal money from domestic car buyers to give it to import car buyers.

How so. Toyota and others would have the same Fee/Tax put on their trucks and SUVs as well. This does not punish American made cars/trucks but those that don;t meet a certain standard in terms of gas milage and such.

It is tailored to favor Toyota's current lineup. Changing rules in the middle of the game. Just because most people want domestic trucks over Toyota's doesn't mean domestics need to be punished for it. Also, impact on domestic industry should be foremost in the minds of politicians, especially ones from districts with domestic auto manufacturing.

As I stated before...

"So all those Toyota and Hondas that are made in the US would not get the tariff? Yet all those Chevys and Fords that are made in Canada and Mexico would have to pay?"

 

[InflatableBuddha]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: senseamp
I think it's a good idea if accompanied with a tariff on import cars to compensate for the fact that it is punishing the domestic auto industry.

So all those Toyota and Hondas that are made in the US would not get the tariff? Yet all those Chevys and Fords that are made in Canada and Mexico would have to pay?

It's not as clear cut as that...how does one even define an "import" versus "domestic" anymore? GM, Toyota and Honda all have large manufacturing facilities in Ontario, Toyota manufactures trucks in Mexico in addition to Ford and Chevy, and all of these brands have manufacturing facilities in the U.S. Not to mention that this applies to Canada, where technically every vehicle is an "import", if you go by brand name.

No tariffs are necessary. These rebates give consumers an incentive to drive compact or sub-compact vehicles (40% of Canadians already do). "Domestic" brands already produce compact and subcompact vehicles (Chevy Aveo, Pontiac Wave, Chevy Cobalt, Pontiac Pursuit, etc.) designed to compete with "imports" brand models (Honda, Toyota, Kia, etc.) Most models within a segment offer similar fuel economy, but the imports sell better despite being more expensive. (The top three vehicles sold in Canada I believe are (not in order) the Honda Civic, Mazda3 and Toyota Corolla.)

Maybe the "domestic" brands simply need to offer better quality products in the subcompact and compact classes, and then consumers will vote with their dollars.

 

[theeedude]

I don't have the problem with consumers voting with their dollars. I have a problem with the government rigging the vote with taxes and rebates that take away from large truck consumers, who predominantly buy domestics and give to compact car consumers who predominantly buy imports.
Domestic politicians need to look out for domestic manufacturing (not necessarily domestic brands) first and foremost. Japanese nurture and protect their own car industry, and we should do the same, or at the very least not sabotage it with these kinds of social engineering market manipulations.

 

[desy]

Toyota doesn't want changes either Stunt


Toyota decided to join Detroit's automakers in fighting the new proposed CAFE standard. But there's another reason as well: like GM, Ford and Chrysler, Toyota has come to depend on sales of SUVs and trucks to plump up profits. In this sense, the company's motives are as American as apple pie. "It's deeply disappointing that Toyota has joined in the lie-and-threaten game," says Dan Becker, director of the Sierra Club's global-warming program. The comment may presage an entirely new kind of backlash awaiting the Japanese automaker.

 

[theeedude]

Why does Toyota hate the environment so much?

 

[theeedude]

Why does Toyota hate the environment so much?

 

[Fern]

Auto-worker's union hates the environment

Unions are not enviromental organizations. They are supposed to do what they think is in the workers best interests. I see nothing unusual or inappropriate here.

Fern

 

[desy]

Yep Japan rabidly protects their domestic market and so does Korea and we won't cause?

What buzz does say about salary concessions is that it would only save about $500 per car so why bother. . .WHAT! people will make a choice to buy over 500 beans and even if NA cars didn't pass the esavings on it would increase the profitability which is a growing gap between the brands, freaking Jacktard.

I have different reasons to hate CAW
"The already huge per-vehicle profit gap between Japanese auto makers and the Detroit Three in North America grew 32 per cent from 2005 to 2006, even though General Motors Corp. has made significant improvements, according to a study of the industry released today."

 

[imported_Baloo]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: senseamp
I think it's a good idea if accompanied with a tariff on import cars to compensate for the fact that it is punishing the domestic auto industry.

The domestics punished themselves by making a ton of SUV's while gas prices were on the rise and people want more SUV's.

You almost said it right their, I fixed it.

Unfortunatley, we can't blame it all on the big 3. The big three still push too much gaz guzzling SUV's, is ture, but they have introduced SUV's that have better fuel economy, though they still guzzle, just not as much. Even the import car makes do not offer their most fuel efficiation vehicles in the U.S., even though they do sell versions of the same vehicles here. Unfortuanely, this is in part due to low demand in the market here for fuel efficient vehicles Too many american still want power, andsize. The best way to make change, is to decide to do what you beleive is right, and encourage others to do the same. Don't force, that would have the opposite effect. If you don't believe encouragement is more effective, try getting your child to learn math by punishing him when he does wrong, then try encourage him when he does right. You will see he learns much much faster when encouraged. Seriously, don't punish your child for getting it wrong, encourage him to try again.

 

[Ferocious]

Originally posted by: desy
Yep Japan rabidly protects their domestic market and so does Korea and we won't cause?

What buzz does say about salary concessions is that it would only save about $500 per car so why bother. . .WHAT! people will make a choice to buy over 500 beans and even if NA cars didn't pass the esavings on it would increase the profitability which is a growing gap between the brands, freaking Jacktard.

I have different reasons to hate CAW
"The already huge per-vehicle profit gap between Japanese auto makers and the Detroit Three in North America grew 32 per cent from 2005 to 2006, even though General Motors Corp. has made significant improvements, according to a study of the industry released today."

The cost differential is mainly to the legacy costs of healthcare for over a HALF million retirees. The foreign transplants have near zero retirees getting healthcare.
Neither the big 3, nor the workers are to blame for skyrocketing costs. The truth is the most productive plants overall are union ones.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: senseamp
I think it's a good idea if accompanied with a tariff on import cars to compensate for the fact that it is punishing the domestic auto industry.

The domestics punished themselves by making a ton of SUV's while gas prices were on the rise and people want more environmentally friendly vehicles.

then why are people still buying SUVs?


IOW - what you said makes no sense at all.


If the government has to intervene it means the public is doing what the public wants and not what some government elitist wants.

 

[theeedude]

The whole SUV bashing is stupid. Envirowhackos keep telling soccer moms to get minivans instead of SUVs, but the new huge GM SUVs, Enclave, Acadia, and Outlook get same mileage as the boring Toyota Sienna AWD minivan.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Fern

Auto-worker's union hates the environment

Unions are not enviromental organizations. They are supposed to do what they think is in the workers best interests. I see nothing unusual or inappropriate here.

Fern

I agree...put people out of work to preserve the environment.....