Autism & Serial killers/Mass shooters.

[Artdeco]

My 25 yr old son carries a diagnosis of classic Autism, he has been "different" since the day he was born, reading the phone book aloud, reciting TV commercials in an echolalic fashion. Did not speak reliably till age 5 years. When frustrated by communication difficulties he would head bang & bite himself till around age 10. In high school, tormented by bullies he made verbal threats & was promptly hustled off to a .4 IEP school (.4 is one step before residential)

Flash forward 10 years, my son is finishing his second semester of college, he's a regular blood donor, he volunteers for charitable causes, he has an active social life with friends he cherishes. He still has some self- stimming behaviors ie: he talks out loud to himself, he has trouble tolerating certain fabrics & foods due to their texture, he at times has overwhelming episodes of anxiety.. but he has learned how to reach out for support & how to express feelings appropriately.

My son is very worried that a life with autism that's already difficult enough will get even harder now for not just himself but for every other person carrying an ASD diagnosis.

He wants you to know that not all people with ASD disorders lack empathy & that his biggest problem stems with being able to adequately communicate his thoughts verbally & that for many on the spectrum the biggest issue is disorders of speech/communication.

"just because my wiring doesn't allow me to chatter away with people doesn't mean I would ever think it was okay to pick up a gun & go and kill people"

Your son is lucky to have you and your family in his life. Strong work :thumbsup:

 

[OverVolt]

I don't think ASD would play a role.

People with ASD I can see having outbursts of anger because they can't communicate well. Having an understanding of that... its pretty normal given the circumstances.

Its the people who are emotionless that you have to worry about. People always confuse an outburst of anger for someone who "snaps"

The thing about these people who "snap" is it seems like they have no emotions when doing it. Thats not anger. Its something completely different, although easily confused for an outburst of anger.

 

[Pulsar]

These kids get treated like absolute shit in our school systems. They're just normal enough to stay mainstream, but just different enough to stand out. And kids are vicious little shitheads that will pick out those differences, ostracize, and torture kids over it. Even in so-called 'anti-bullying' schools, the admin will take the standpoint of 'we have to see it to do something about it'.

I watched one of these kids go through 3 years of hell before he finally reacted to the bullier and beat the shit out of him on the bus. The autistic kid is now labeled an instigator and a troublemaker by the admin and was suspended, even after meetings with the parents, the bus driver, and the teachers all backing up autistic's kids story. Because the admin never witnessed the bullying, they act like it isn't happening.

It's no wonder they flip out in many cases.

The state of mental health in this country is absolutely abominable. The white-collar business-degree people that are getting hired to 'admin' schools have absolutely zero sense about how to interact with the kids or actually deal with problems.

I deal with many of these kids because I mentor robotics and programming. In many cases it's the first time they've ever fit in anywhere in their lives, and the transformation is amazing. And I regularly get to see the treatment that that so-called 'cool kids' AND their parents dish out.

 

[who?]

The movie American Ultra comes to mind.

"American Ultra" was based on the idea of what if the CIA's MKUltra mind control experiments had worked. The main character in "American Ultra" was programmed by the CIA's MKUltra mind control experiments. That wasn't autism that was programming.

 

[DCal430]

Looks like my theory is correct.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/27/justice/california-elliot-rodger-wealth/?iref=obinsite

The divorce documents also confirmed that Elliot Rodger was diagnosed with Asperger syndrome, a form of autism, when he was 7. "Elliot has special needs," his mother said in a sworn statement. "He is a high functioning autistic child."

Wrong, the mother only claimed he was diagnosed, the same court documents show the father saying it wasn't true. That isn't confirmation at all.

 

[DCal430]

I had never seen this thread, but I find it surprising people in it were so hostile to the idea that there could be a correlation between autism spectrum disorders and mass violence. Certainly it is not a perfect correlation, but there have been many instances of people on the spectrum committing crimes like this, including, in the recent past, James Holmes, Adam Lanza and Elliot Rodger.

A more interesting question would be, was the autism causally connected, or were the shootings in fact motivated by other co-morbid mental illnesses suffered by the shooters? Clearly all three of these guys seemed to suffer from other profound personality and mood disorders, and frankly I think those, not autism spectrum disorder, were more clearly causally related to their crimes. I think it's unwise to dismiss out of hand the idea that autism may have played a role, however. When we ignore data based on our emotions, it greatly impairs our ability to draw useful conclusions.

James Holmes was never diagnosed with Autism. As for Elliot, only Elliot's mother claimed he was diagnosed, his father denied this. In fact an attorney for the father stated that the family had suspected he had autism, but was never diagnosed; even-though he had seen multiple therapist.

FYI you shouldn't diagnose people on the spectrum over the internet, and certainly not having ever actually met them.

 

[John Connor]

I don't know if you post is a joke or not, but have you spent more than 5 minues with somebody that is actually is autistic?

^This.

 

[videogames101]

These kids get treated like absolute shit in our school systems. They're just normal enough to stay mainstream, but just different enough to stand out. And kids are vicious little shitheads that will pick out those differences, ostracize, and torture kids over it. Even in so-called 'anti-bullying' schools, the admin will take the standpoint of 'we have to see it to do something about it'.

I watched one of these kids go through 3 years of hell before he finally reacted to the bullier and beat the shit out of him on the bus. The autistic kid is now labeled an instigator and a troublemaker by the admin and was suspended, even after meetings with the parents, the bus driver, and the teachers all backing up autistic's kids story. Because the admin never witnessed the bullying, they act like it isn't happening.

It's no wonder they flip out in many cases.

The state of mental health in this country is absolutely abominable. The white-collar business-degree people that are getting hired to 'admin' schools have absolutely zero sense about how to interact with the kids or actually deal with problems.

I deal with many of these kids because I mentor robotics and programming. In many cases it's the first time they've ever fit in anywhere in their lives, and the transformation is amazing. And I regularly get to see the treatment that that so-called 'cool kids' AND their parents dish out.

This is real, the educators who understand how to interact with these kids are few and far between. It doesn't matter how many trainings you put these dipshits through, they'll never get it. I'm speaking from the perspective of my mother who deals with special needs kids everyday, and some of the stories she tells about the other educators in the school system are horrendous to hear. It's like they don't even see the kids as people. :|

 

[William Gaatjes]

This guy who went Colonel Kurtz and turned into the Joker shooting up the Movie theater seems to fall under the classic "Autistic" spectrum. Intelligent, meticulous and lacking empathy. A dangerous combination if the right things click.

Since Aspergers/Autistic spectrum folks lack Empathy it means they have an emotional disconnect between the victims and shooting them would obviously not be an issue.

To them humans are just an object they target and shoot. It would look like a profile could be easily set up to detect potential serial killers/mass murderers in the future.

Just look for intelligent Autistic folks who are buying guns etc.. That would raise a red flag. Requrie a license to own a gun, do something similar to the Voight Kampf test to determine if the person applying for a weapons license falls under the autistic spectrum.

This guy was probably taking ADD drugs etc.. and triggered some kind of psychotic break, in combination with his Autism it ended in a lethal outcome. Anyhow that is my theory for what has happened.

Autism spectrum is very broad. Although i can not speak for every individual with a given brain configuration, i can say that there are exist people with autism with a lot of empathy. So much it drowns them. Hence those people prefer being alone. Autism is not synonymous to a lack of empathy.
Sifting people based on autism will not help you. What you must look for is a narcissistic personality.

edit :
Woops. Seems i have already posted in this thread.

 

[TheVrolok]

Idiotic OP bumped this idiotic thread? This thread needs to DIAF.

Wow, almost 3 years later and I don't even have to edit my last response.

 

[Hugo Drax]

And I was right again, another one. Same Profile.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/03/us/chris-harper-mercer-umpqua-community-college-shooting.html?_r=0

 

[SunnyD]

Since Aspergers/Autistic spectrum folks lack Empathy

I'm gonna go ahead and say you don't know shit about Aspergers and/or Autism right there.

 

[dainthomas]

I'm gonna go ahead and say you don't know shit about Aspergers and/or Autism right there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

The syndrome is named after the Austrian pediatrician Hans Asperger who, in 1944, studied and described children in his practice who lacked nonverbal communication skills, demonstrated limited empathy with their peers, and were physically clumsy.[

I guess Hans Asperger didn't know anything about it either.

 

[SunnyD]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome



I guess Hans Asperger didn't know anything about it either.

There's a difference between "limited" and "complete lack of". A lot of the sociopaths that have "gone postal" so to speak are most definitely mentally flawed, but I would have a hard time putting them in the Asperger's category. In fact I'd say most of them do feel empathy just fine, several have been medicated or diagnosed with other mental disorders most definitely not in the realm of Autism.

 

[Pulsar]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

I guess Hans Asperger didn't know anything about it either.

If the best you can do is pull up wikipedia to try to describe a little-understood and very under-treated mental issue, fuck off.

If you have some first hand knowledge of what actually goes on in these kids lives, by all means speak up.

Hey Hugo... I'm just curious.... are you going to play the same bullshit game with all people who live in the inner city and crime? Because while we're making baseless correlations without understanding the underlying causes, we might as well throw blacks, latinos, and all inner-city residents under the crime bus at the same time.

 

[Pulsar]

There's a difference between "limited" and "complete lack of". A lot of the sociopaths that have "gone postal" so to speak are most definitely mentally flawed, but I would have a hard time putting them in the Asperger's category. In fact I'd say most of them do feel empathy just fine, several have been medicated or diagnosed with other mental disorders most definitely not in the realm of Autism.

To go a step further - most of the people who have committed these crimes have empathy. Look at the reasons they give - in almost every case it's hopelessness, desperation, and anger bordering on rage because they feel so helpless and useless in their situations.

That's not a lack of empathy. That's a classic sign of depression. Usually stemming from social rejection - i.e. the way that WE treat them. (Yes, you).

 

[who?]

A person with no empathy for others feelings can have hopelessness, desperation and anger.

 

[Zodiark1593]

People with Autism do not lack empathy, we can be deficient in knowing how to respond to emotional situations or expressing our own emotions, but we do not lack empathy.

From my viewpoint, having Autism myself, Autism seems to not effect the reception of emotion, but rather, the ability to decipher them. The "Hardware Acceleration" for that seems to be rather wonky, and so must be decoded with less-than-perfect algorithms in Software.

However, doing this with near-perfect accuracy (IE, you don't stand out) requires a rather high intellect, lots of practice, and a similar skill set as is required for lying due to effectively faking emotional responses, and identifying which emotions to suppress for a given situation. While reputed for being poor at deceiving others, autistics that achieve the above could otherwise be extremely successful con-artists.

Those that (yet) lack the above however are apt to be overwhelmed by emotions they have no understanding of unless they suppress them entirely.

I don't particularly mind being autistic, though it was (and still is) a damn hell of an obstacle when it comes to finding out what person I am, especially with certain aspects I won't go into here.

 

[luv2liv]

prisons are making mad profits. im sure we have run out of thugs to lock up so lets search and lock up the crazies now.

sell guns only to sane people. great idea! but how can you be sure they wont go insane when they get fired from their job, they got divorced, or someone flip them the bird?

 

[Hugo Drax]

Gun nut mother/autistic son. Yup just like the last mass shooting but the mom did not survive that one.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mo...f-keeping-firearms/ar-AAf84rl?ocid=spartandhp

In addition to talking about guns, Ms. Harper, 64, was a prolific commenter in online forums dealing with medical issues, frequently answering questions from strangers with a tone of empathy and concern. She acknowledged having expertise in dealing with autism, saying that both she and her son — whom she never identified by name — had Asperger’s syndrome, an autism spectrum disorder.

Consoling another parent seeking help with disruptive behavior by their autistic child, Ms. Harper shared that her own son “was, among other things, a head-banger” when he was younger who was initially misdiagnosed with attention deficit disorder. But over time, he had learned to cope and was doing better, she wrote: “I was in your shoes and now my son’s in college.”

She expressed frustration with people who questioned how successful a person with autism could be, noting: “I have Asperger’s and I didn’t do so bad. Wasn’t easy (understatement) but it can be done.” She also said she had “dealt with it on a daily basis for years and years” because of her son, who she said was progressing well.



There is a common Thread. Autism combined poor parenting/psychotic breakdown = mass shooting.

 

[Pulsar]

Gun nut mother/autistic son. Yup just like the last mass shooting but the mom did not survive that one.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mo...f-keeping-firearms/ar-AAf84rl?ocid=spartandhp

In addition to talking about guns, Ms. Harper, 64, was a prolific commenter in online forums dealing with medical issues, frequently answering questions from strangers with a tone of empathy and concern. She acknowledged having expertise in dealing with autism, saying that both she and her son — whom she never identified by name — had Asperger’s syndrome, an autism spectrum disorder.

Consoling another parent seeking help with disruptive behavior by their autistic child, Ms. Harper shared that her own son “was, among other things, a head-banger” when he was younger who was initially misdiagnosed with attention deficit disorder. But over time, he had learned to cope and was doing better, she wrote: “I was in your shoes and now my son’s in college.”

She expressed frustration with people who questioned how successful a person with autism could be, noting: “I have Asperger’s and I didn’t do so bad. Wasn’t easy (understatement) but it can be done.” She also said she had “dealt with it on a daily basis for years and years” because of her son, who she said was progressing well.



There is a common Thread. Autism combined poor parenting/psychotic breakdown = mass shooting.

Correlation is not causation. Can you cite where she's been considered a bad parent? I don't think I've seen that data. Can you also cite where therapists have said that there was a psychotic breakdown in this case?

His father, who claimed to have a very good relationship with his son didn't see this coming at all.

Let me just say I'm glad we have an expert like you around to draw these conclusions.

 

[futurefields]

Since Aspergers/Autistic spectrum folks lack Empathy it means they have an emotional disconnect between the victims and shooting them would obviously not be an issue.

Nah what you're describing is a sociopath.

 

[William Gaatjes]

From my viewpoint, having Autism myself, Autism seems to not effect the reception of emotion, but rather, the ability to decipher them. The "Hardware Acceleration" for that seems to be rather wonky, and so must be decoded with less-than-perfect algorithms in Software.

However, doing this with near-perfect accuracy (IE, you don't stand out) requires a rather high intellect, lots of practice, and a similar skill set as is required for lying due to effectively faking emotional responses, and identifying which emotions to suppress for a given situation. While reputed for being poor at deceiving others, autistics that achieve the above could otherwise be extremely successful con-artists.

Those that (yet) lack the above however are apt to be overwhelmed by emotions they have no understanding of unless they suppress them entirely.

I don't particularly mind being autistic, though it was (and still is) a damn hell of an obstacle when it comes to finding out what person I am, especially with certain aspects I won't go into here.

I can identify with what you write. It is possible to emulate the "hardware", but it is like keeping a very large database file open and in memory all the time. For each person i know, a different set of behavior rules, data, facial movement features and posture recognition. Putting a tax on an autistic person. How often i have chosen for isolation after a busy day at work or after having a dinner with friends. Sometimes i wonder if i even have mirror neurons. And if i have them, do they fire too much or not at all ?
I do note that i pick up emotions of others, it is just way stronger. But mostly on the negative side, unfortunately. When someone is happy, i am happy for them, i just do not feel the over reacting joy others seem to have. Or when people laugh, i do not feel a need to laugh with them. I just smile. Unless i need to laugh because of for example a joke.
I do am a bad liar, so i have chosen for my eccentric behavior to be a part of me.

 

[momeNt]

Didn't Einstein help develop the nuclear bomb? How many people were killed between the 2 nuclear devices dropped on Japan?

All through out human history we have justified killing other people. The Romans killed millions of Gauls, the Huns invaded Europe and slaughters millions. In one battle between the Huns and the Romans, an estimated 100,000 men died.

The U.S. government slaughtered Native American Indians.

Germany and the Jews during WW2.

Joseph Stalin and the Jews after WW2.

The Japanese slaughtered the Chinese,,,,, and the list goes on and on.

The theater shooting is a reflection of how cruel we can be towards our own kind.

How is the theater shooting any different then what soldiers did to native American women and children?




Define serial killer.

Is obama a serial killer because he ordered US citizens killed with drones?

How do we excuse someone like obama for killing U.S. citizens without due process, but we demand justice in the theater shootings?

The distinction between serial killers and the actions of governments that you listed is clear. The governments are operating under a belief in "the greater good". It's drawing arbitrary borders around "your team" and putting that above everybody else.

Both belief systems are equally insane.

 

[mmntech]

I know it's an old thread but I think Drax is confusing autism for Antisocial Personality Disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder. AKA classic psychopathy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

Maybe these people are also autistic but correlation does not equal causation.