Austria holds 'Holocaust denier'

[The Linuxator]

Link

OK that's the first time I hear of the law that the man is being held for breaking, but IMO I think Anti-antisemitism is becoming far more dangerous than antisemitism itself.

I don't want a flame war here, but if we were talking about something of this sort that happened / is happening in the Middle-East or somewhere like that, we would be saying how that is against freedom of speech / belief or both, and how extremist that is.

I don't know that much about the man, but only the charge that he is being held for, he thinks the Holocaust is a fact, but how much exXXXXxagerated it is as another major fact.

Why is that anti-semitic ? What, someone will now tell me that is a form of protection ? And if so are Jews the only minorities that need protection in Europe ? Can you say Bosnia ?

So what, people have to agree with the whatever is given to them eh ? I think revisionist historians are there for a reason .
My opinion concerning such laws, is that they are one of the forms of brainwashing and can cause more harm to the Jewish minorities more than Antisemitism can really do.

 

[sandorski]

I have mixed feelings on this issue. There certainly are some who hold the opinion that the Holocaust never happened, but should that be illegal? Only a few nations have laws against it, Austria and Germany(I believe) and the existance of them there makes some sense, since they were in the middle of the whole event. I think it's part of their shame and part of their desire for Forgiveness that drives them to institute such laws.

That said, No, Anti-Anti-Semitism isn't worse. It takes a particuarly sick mind to deny the Holocaust and not surprisingly those who do usually hold dear the tenets of Naziism and Anti-Semitism/Pro-Aryanism. To legally outlaw such views is as much to destroy/prevent Naziism than anything.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Retarded ideas and the people that espouse them should not be silenced. They deserve to be heard so we can publicly ridicule them.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Retarded ideas and the people that espouse them should not be silenced. They deserve to be heard so we can publicly ridicule them.

Yah, and then they become US congressmen

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Retarded ideas and the people that espouse them should not be silenced. They deserve to be heard so we can publicly ridicule them.

Though that's the ideal situation, I think from Austria's(and others in the region) point of view that just isn't enough. They had to live through the event and have too much firsthand experience to just let it go so easily.

Besides, punishment is just another form of ridicule when you think of it. Certainly more intense, but for some simply rolling the eyes isn't sufficient.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Retarded ideas and the people that espouse them should not be silenced. They deserve to be heard so we can publicly ridicule them.

Yah, and then they become US congressmen

Or Presidents.

 

[dahunan]

Just take them to Auschwitz for a weekend and lock them there with no food in an empty oven.. then pick them up on Monday and send them back to work

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Retarded ideas and the people that espouse them should not be silenced. They deserve to be heard so we can publicly ridicule them.

Yah, and then they become US congressmen

Or Presidents.

Or journalists for the NYTimes

 

[ZeGermans]

Wasn't he the guy in that one "documentary" someone posted in here a few months ago that denied the holocaust? I seem to recall it caused a bit of a stir and the OP got banned for it.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Retarded ideas and the people that espouse them should not be silenced. They deserve to be heard so we can publicly ridicule them.

Yah, and then they become US congressmen

Or Presidents.

Or journalists for the NYTimes

Or media moguls from Australia.

 

[Dissipate]

Giving his verdict, the British judge said Mr Irving was "an active Holocaust denier; that he is anti-Semitic and racist and that he associates with right-wing extremists who promote neo-Nazism".

Wtf kind of a bullsh!t ruling is this?! An 'active holocaust denier?!' You can be arrested in Austria for simply denying that some event took place? Wow, Europe really has lot its marbles.

Let's hear the aplogists for socialist democratic states explain this one away.

 

[Colt45]

Originally posted by: The Linuxator
And if so are Jews the only minorities that need protection in Europe ? Can you say Bosnia ?

Please tell me which minority is it in bosnia that needs protection?

 

[shira]

Unless Irving is inciting people to commit crimes, arresting him for espousing an unpopular belief - no matter how abhorrent - is a gross violation of freedom of expression. Anyone who claims to be a proponent of liberty should be deeply disturbed by Austria's action.

Of course, for those who advocate the teaching of Intelligent Design in science classes, Holocaust Denial provides a nice lesson in hypocrisy: If it's okay to teach Intelligent Design in a science class, why isn't it okay to teach Holocaust Denial in a history class? "Teach the conflict,", isn't that what you ID'ers advocate?

 

[CanOWorms]

Giving his verdict, the British judge said Mr Irving was "an active Holocaust denier; that he is anti-Semitic and racist and that he associates with right-wing extremists who promote neo-Nazism

Sounds like the typical European politician.

 

[morkinva]

This sounds like stuff that'll happen in USA if S.1145: A bill to provide Federal assistance to States and local jurisdictions to prosecute hate crimes -- didn't fail to pass the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Apparently Ted Kennedy wants to try again by attaching it to S.1086: The Sex Offender Registration and Notification Act.

Isn't this Anti-Defamation League promoted crap already law in a lot of countries?

 

[The Linuxator]

Originally posted by: shira
Unless Irving is inciting people to commit crimes, arresting him for espousing an unpopular belief - no matter how abhorrent - is a gross violation of freedom of expression. Anyone who claims to be a proponent of liberty should be deeply disturbed by Austria's action.

:thumbsup:

 

[Ferocious]

Originally posted by: The Linuxator

Originally posted by: shira
Unless Irving is inciting people to commit crimes, arresting him for espousing an unpopular belief - no matter how abhorrent - is a gross violation of freedom of expression. Anyone who claims to be a proponent of liberty should be deeply disturbed by Austria's action.

:thumbsup:

Agreed, though Sandorski brings up an interesting point. But yeah those kind of laws are not good to have in the books IMO.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Arrested for simply holding a belief, interesting...

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: UglyCasanova
Arrested for simply holding a belief, interesting...

Also in the news here: a majority of Americans think it's ok to torture terror suspects. So not people who are convicted terrorists, but people who are plucked off the street for _maybe_ having certain believes, whom it is not yet clear whether they are.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Retarded ideas and the people that espouse them should not be silenced. They deserve to be heard so we can publicly ridicule them.

Wow... we agree. Completely. Let the idiot have his freedom of expression. It just gives the rest of us something to laugh at. On the flip side, I find it appalling that anyone can be arrested simply for holding a belief, regardless of how distasteful or insensitive.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Giving his verdict, the British judge said Mr Irving was "an active Holocaust denier; that he is anti-Semitic and racist and that he associates with right-wing extremists who promote neo-Nazism".

Wtf kind of a bullsh!t ruling is this?! An 'active holocaust denier?!' You can be arrested in Austria for simply denying that some event took place? Wow, Europe really has lot its marbles.

Let's hear the aplogists for socialist democratic states explain this one away.

It's not a left-wing government there. Unless you are a neo-nazi, then pretty much everything else is left-wing.

Let's say Al-Qaida manages to set off a few dirty bombs above major US cities, killing 30 million US citizens. What do you think the average US citizen would think of people saying it never happened, and it is just a lie made up by the US government and their friends?

 

[UglyCasanova]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: UglyCasanova
Arrested for simply holding a belief, interesting...

Also in the news here: a majority of Americans think it's ok to torture terror suspects. So not people who are convicted terrorists, but people who are plucked off the street for _maybe_ having certain believes, whom it is not yet clear whether they are.

My statement still stands. What you are saying is a travesty, as well as off topic. But we can't talk about Europe without bringing up the good ol USA to try and justify whatever it is they are doing now can we.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: UglyCasanova

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: UglyCasanova
Arrested for simply holding a belief, interesting...

Also in the news here: a majority of Americans think it's ok to torture terror suspects. So not people who are convicted terrorists, but people who are plucked off the street for _maybe_ having certain believes, whom it is not yet clear whether they are.

My statement still stands. What you are saying is a travesty, as well as off topic. But we can't talk about Europe without bringing up the good ol USA to try and justify whatever it is they are doing now can we.

That's one of the reasons why Europe is declining. They don't want to criticize themselves because it would tear down their sense of supremacy. So, they have to justify their actions by comparing it with horrible acts of others.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Retarded ideas and the people that espouse them should not be silenced. They deserve to be heard so we can publicly ridicule them.

Wow... we agree. Completely. Let the idiot have his freedom of expression. It just gives the rest of us something to laugh at. On the flip side, I find it appalling that anyone can be arrested simply for holding a belief, regardless of how distasteful or insensitive.

The problem for them was it went beyond belief to practice.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Retarded ideas and the people that espouse them should not be silenced. They deserve to be heard so we can publicly ridicule them.

Wow... we agree. Completely. Let the idiot have his freedom of expression. It just gives the rest of us something to laugh at. On the flip side, I find it appalling that anyone can be arrested simply for holding a belief, regardless of how distasteful or insensitive.

Given Europe's demonstrated ability to mobilize a continent to put an entire ethnic group into ovens I really don't have a problem with them combatting a millenial old problem of anti-semitism by making it illegal and the speach associated with it illegal as well. Europe isn't america.