Audio Video help/advice needed for HT setup!

[Antoneo]

My parents would like a home theater type of system in their living room and rather than watch them go to Best Buy or Circuit City, I thought I might ask a few questions here . There is also an odd request I got from my mom, who wants speakers in the dining room and kitchen so that she (and the guests?) can listen to music while talking or cooking. Yeah I have a wierd mom but she's cool. I don't know too much about speakers and video equiptment so any help is appreciated.
The system will be used 60% music and 40% dvd movies or somewhere close to it. My parents are willing to spend the amount needed for a decent system (nothing too expensive or too crappy) but try to keep the whole thing under 5 thousand dollars.

Here is a rather crude floor plan I have made in photoshop (Thanks to 0sully for his pics server!). Sorry I dont have Autocad. Floor Plan
Here is what the place looks like now: Current

The entrance to the house is the opening at the bottom left. The TV that is currently there is an old (but still works great and is nearly flat) Panasonic 27 incher. There is a pair of JVC speakers and it says "3 way speaker, type: bass reflex, Frequency Response is 40 Hz to 20kHz, Power handling is 80 Watts, Impedance is 8 Ohms". Impedance is resistance, yes? So would a low impedance be better? Also, is it called a three way speaker because there are three drivers? Sorry if these questions sound really stupid.

Here is a picture of what my mom wants: Link
Are four speakers really necessary to have ample music in both the dining room and kitchen? The speakers will have to be rather smallish as they will be wall mounted, most likely close to the ceiling. The walls are made of plaster/cement if that information is useful.

As for the living room, uh a widescreen is desired as well as a 5.1 system. A new amplifier and cd/dvd is also needed. Would it make more economical sense to buy a cd/dvd changer/player rather than to buy a separate dvd player and a cd changer? We have about a hundred cds and about 10 dvds and will buy more later. Can we use the old JVC speakers or will the difference in timbre be enough to be distracting? I am open to all ideas (including DIY kits) so please post away!! If any more info is needed please ask. Thanks a lot guys!

 

[Ornery]

Hmmm, I see a problem with speaker placement for the Living Room. That's going to be hard to work around. Your rear speakers should be behind you. No getting around that.

I'd just buy pairs of speakers for the kitchen and dining room. There are some that can be built right into the wall that would be more than adequate. $100.00 or less each for those.

"a cd/dvd changer/player rather than to buy a separate dvd player and a cd changer?"

That would be my advice. How discriminating are you or your parents? No sense buying cutting edge stuff if you're not that serious. $5,000.00 is a generous budget for this, but there's no reason to just spend it willy nilly. I'd spend as much time getting that room dialed in as shopping for the hardware. You got your work cut out for you there!

 

[conjur]

Here a couple of links that may help:

Link 1
Link 2

And, for the equipment upgrade, what's the budget? Or do you know? If it's pretty high, I'd go with:
TV: Mitsubishi 55819 (or you decide)
Receiver: B&K AVR 307 (Or a Yamaha RX-V2200)
Speakers: Paradigm Performance Series or Paradigm Reference Series
DVD Player: JVC XV-FA95GD (plays DVD-Audio and MP3 and is a 7-disc changer)

For the multi-room speakers, in-walls can lose some quality so you may consider some smaller speakers just surface mounted.

And, yeah, that living room setup...might consider a more standard setup with the TV along one wall and the sofas facing it instead of shooting diagonally across the room

 

[deftron]

Bi-polar surrounds might work on the wall behind the couch.

conjur has good reccomendations..

I have a Yamaha RX-V1200 receiver and like it alot.
I dont have Paradigm speakers, but Axiom. They are similar in their accurate reproduction.
I have a JVC VX-S65...doesnt have DVD-A or changer but the picture is great.
I can't wait untill I get a HDTV widescreen.

conjur- How good is DVD-A ? I usually listen to music in STEREO and dont know about 5.1 music. I've tried Prologic2 Music and I know its no substitute for DVD-A, but sorta similar.
The only reason that I havent gotten into DVD-A yet is because most of the music I like isn't released on DVD-A and probably wont be for quite awhile.

 

[conjur]

To be honest, I haven't tried the DVD-A yet. :Q

Although, I do have two DVD-A discs (Jonatha Brook and Dido). Maybe next weekend I'll get back behind the rack and hook up the analog cables to the receiver (currently a Yamaha RX-V795)

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I can't answer all your questions, but 8 ohms is typical impedance for speakers. BTW impedance it the total opposition to current flow in an AC circuit, which of course, is what your amp sends to the speakers. AC opposition consists of both resistance and reactance. Higher or lower values are irrevelant for practical purposes. What is important is that speaker and amp impedences match. Unless you really get something off the wall, this should not be a problem, as 8 ohms is pretty standard as I have said.

 

[deftron]

I'm not worried about it enough to upgrade my DVD player.

However..I am considering getting a Hercules GTXP soundcard.
Along with digital out..It has analog outputs for each individual channel.
Does anyone know if you can play DVD-A from a computer to a receiver with that?

 

[kami]

conjur...just curious, but is there any reason why you left you the monitor line? The performance line is their low end, and the studios are high end. Monitors are a good in-between and probably perfect for MistaEng's parents.

5 grand is going to get you a lot if you shop right. it's a nice budget

 

[conjur]

No particular reason. When I was listing alternatives (such as the Yamaha instead of the B&K), I was just thinking of an upper end and a lower end. There are receivers between the Yamaha and B&K just as there are TV options (CRT projector, DLP projection).

 

[Antoneo]

<< And, for the equipment upgrade, what's the budget? Or do you know? >>

My parents haven't said exactly what it was (they said whatever is needed for a decent setup, nothing extravagant) but I would like to keep the entire thing under $5,000.


<< How discriminating are you or your parents? No sense buying cutting edge stuff if you're not that serious. >>

I probably couldn't tell a 256 mp3 from a cd playing. My parents and I don't need serious high end stuff, just enough not to be disappointed.
How do you guys hide all the wires that run across the room? We have only varnished wood, no carpet to run the wires under. My guess is you run the wires on where the wall meets the floor/ceiling.
I was thinking of placing the new tv diagonally like this: Link
but... as Ornery said, the placement of the rear surrounds is a problem . We currently have the TV against the wall but as we watch tv, our heads are turned a bit towards the left which is a bit annoying... the sofas can be moved to a different position though.

 

[tweakmm]

<< I probably couldn't tell a 256 mp3 from a cd playing >>


if you are using a decent encoder, neither can most audiophiles(click quality)

 

[conjur]

That layout is how my dad's family room is setup right now. But, he has several feet of open space behind the seating area and had the surrounds mounting in the ceiling just behind the seats. I believe somewhere on Dolby's site is a page for layout concerns.

And, for hiding the cabling/wires, pull the baseboards off and make a groove along the bottom of the drywall run the wires through there (your local Home Depot will have books on wiring and you'll see some examples of what I'm talking about in there).

To keep within $5k budget and include the TV...that's stretching it. The Mits is going to be the best choice and get an ISF tech to calibrate it properly, too, after a few months' use (check out The Spot in the Mitsubishi forum). That'll be about $3k. The Yamaha is about $1200 (or you could drop to the V1200 for about $900). Speakers, get the Paradigm Phantom for the mains ($398 special order from 6ave.com), CC170 for the Center ($198), and the ADP170 surrounds ($398 - special order again). For the other rooms, I'd go with, say, the Paradigm AMS250 for the Dining Room ($398) and the AMS100R for the Kitchen ($298). For a subwoofer, the Paradigm PW2200 will give some very deep bass and it could be added on later, if necessary.

To host the equipment (all but the TV), I keep mine in a cherry Bell'O rack

Oh yeah...and still go for the JVC XV-FA95GD or the 90BK if you want black for the DVD player.

 

[Antoneo]

Thanks everyone. I think we are going to buy the widescreen last probably a couple of months after the audio equipment. One thing that worries me is the limited HDTV coverage of stuff. I think we might wait it out a bit until HDTV takes off.

So the audio... how do those DYI kits like this one: Link compare to speakers from companies like Paradigm. I guess what I am really asking is what line (monitor, performance, etc) would this DYI kit be comparable to in quality? I am having trouble finding the prices for Paradigm...

 

[Antoneo]

Any suggestions for small surface mounted speakers? The in-the-wall speakers doesnt seem to go well with the folks because they don't like the idea of creating holes in the house. What about flat panel speakers (sorta like the monsoon stuff)? My mom just wants some decent quality coming out.

 

[conjur]

Until HDTV takes off? Well, NYC might still have some problems as some of the broadcasting towers were atop the WTC. But, The following are available over-the-air (OTA):

CBS (1080i) - full prime-time schedule in HDTV (well, not 60 Minutes II nor 48 Hrs from what I could tell)
ABC (720p) - Most of prime-time schedule and weekend movies (James Bond movies have been shown and Raiders of the Lost Ark got GREAT reviews recently for its quality transfer)
NBC (1080i) - The Tonight Show and Crossing Jordan (and partnered with HDNet for 24hr delay of Olympic broadcasts in HDTV)
FOX (480p - aka Fox Widescreen) - Some shows are shown in this which is comparable to progressive scan DVD but is NOT HDTV
PBS (1080i) - I believe they now have a full-time HDTV channel and my local PBS shows a few shows a month in HD and I've seen SmartTravels in HD each Sat. the last two weeks)
Showtime (1080i) - Available on DISH
HBO (1080i) - Available on DISH and DirecTV
HDNet (1080i) - 24/7 sports (and other specials) on DirecTV

And, since you're in NYC, I believe MSG-HD is available to certain cable customers.

There's much out there already! And, progressive scan DVDs look GREAT on a 16:9 widescreen set. That's the main reason I bought mine over a year ago (Mitsubishi 55857)

And...for the speakers...these aren't necessarily surface mount but they are a rather thin speaker with very good reviews:

Jamo

For the DYI...well...that's not for me...I'll take a set of fully-engineered and assembled speakers

 

[Antoneo]

conjur: Thanks, man. Wow.. never knew that many HDTV channels were available, they really should start a massive advertising campaign other than the stickers on "HDTV capable" television sets. I guess the purchase of the widescreen will be quite near .
The Jamo speakers seem great, I will have to look further into those.

btw, is there a great quality difference between DTS and Dolby Digital 5.1?

 

[Ornery]

Are you on a basement or crawl space? Run the wires under there. My wife loved the idea of speakers built into the wall, because she didn't want this "electronic stuff" all over the living room. I compromised and got Acoustic Research 'The Edge' Satellites and matching 12" sub. They mount nicely on the wall and are unobtrusive. About $140.00 Per Pair in Black or White. Their mounting brackets are the best I've ever seen. Yes, they sound fine too! They would be perfect for your dining room and kitchen as well. Fish the wires through the walls into the basement or crawl space if you can. It may be possible to go through the attic, but it looks like you have a second floor there.

"...is there a great quality difference between DTS and Dolby Digital 5.1?"

In that room, with the speaker placement problem, I don't think the subtle difference is going to matter much.

 

[conjur]

MistaEng,

Well, maybe after May 1 (the supposed deadline - but about 1/2 the remaining stations have filed extensions) we'll see/hear more about HDTV.

And, as Ornery said, you probably won't notice the DTS/Dolby Digital difference but I do pick DTS from the menu of discs if it's on there.

Oh, and more thing, CBS and FOX are broadcasting digitally from the Empire State Bldg and NBC and ABC are trying to get onto a tower in northern NJ but the town council is dragging their feet big time!