Audio S5 N/A or Forced Injection

[Lepton87]

Which version would you prefer a 4.2 V8 "normally aspirated engine or a supercharged 3.0 V6? 4.2V8 produces 349 hp@7000, 440 N·m at 5500-7000 while 3.0 supercharged produces 329 hp @2900-5300RPM, 440 N·m. at 3500. I'm from Europe so I guess that V6 engines are toys for you but my question still stands. In Europe we usually have much smaller engines with more power from a given capacity but even this changes with Ford with it ECO-BOOST initiative or Hyundai sonata with The 2.0L GDI turbo which develops 274 hp (278 PS) and 269 lb·ft (365 N·m) of torque, which is awesome. I can think of only one European car that has highest-specific-output, aside from Porsche and other uber expensive cars. Only Audi TT RS. That turbo version should be more elastic, lighter and thus faster not to mention ECU reprogramming costs very little. I always hot 20-30 percent more power from my turbo cars, depending if it was diesel or petrol. I always gained more power on petrol engines. 3.0T@420KM will even feel faster. I always prefer smaller boosted engine if they offer very similar power then normally aspirated. I wrote about those AUDIs just as examples. I'd like to hear your thought about other cars available with turbo and N/A as well.
UPDATE: I just realized that for S5 3.0T you can boost the engine output to about 450KM and even overtake RS5 on a straight road. From my experience with 3 cars with the same power out-put the turbo diesel will be the fastest very closely followed by turbo petrol and at the tail should be N/A Petrol. That's not to say I don't like N/A petrol, they offer more fun from driving. That's if the cars have the same propulsion and very good driving ratios on transmissions and as close to possible shifting time.I had honda Civic Type-R 2.0 N/A 200KM and it's been almost 5 years and the insurance company claims that I stole my own car which I didn't. Oh, the Irony, my brother did exactly that and had the money in 3 months.

 

[DaTT]

I wish the S5 was more powerful from the factory.

 

[Railgun]

Friend of mine just picked up a new S5. He's been in the VAG camp for a while. I've not looked into that side for a while, but apparently that new V6 is getting some nice gains while tuned. N/A, while sounds nice, would need some significant mods to get those kinds of gains, being N/A...naturally.

 

[Railgun]

I wish the S5 was more powerful from the factory.

It is. It has an R in front of it.

 

[DaTT]

It is. It has an R in front of it.

Yeah, but that's a different car altogether. I feel the S should have high 300's this day and age.

 

[Railgun]

Yeah, but that's a different car altogether. I feel the S should have high 300's this day and age.

Was being facetious. :sneaky:

But, look at the S5's competition...

435i
C350
IS350

Power alone, Audi wins. Naturally that's not the end all be all metric, but there's no real need for more power in that segment. Plus, and not that this was necessarily done by design, there are plenty of gains to be made in the aftermarket.

 

[_Rick_]

I'd get the V6, because the S5 isn't a very sporty car, but more of a cruiser. Easy turbo-torque is more suitable for such a car. And with a new ECU, a high octane diet and a bit more boost, the turbo should make some HP gains as well, if that really matters. But beware "torque poisoning" and the car eating its gearbox or other little details (see broken engine mounts, axles and what not in one of the turbo-MR2 threads )
Chris Harris from /drive did a little feature comparing a tuned S4 to an RS4, that might be relevant to you.

 

[halik]

I'd get the V6, because the S5 isn't a very sporty car, but more of a cruiser. Easy turbo-torque is more suitable for such a car. And with a new ECU, a high octane diet and a bit more boost, the turbo should make some HP gains as well, if that really matters. But beware "torque poisoning" and the car eating its gearbox or other little details (see broken engine mounts, axles and what not in one of the turbo-MR2 threads )
Chris Harris from /drive did a little feature comparing a tuned S4 to an RS4, that might be relevant to you.

Err wouldn't you want the v8 per that reasoning? My S8 has enough torque down low to move buildings, which is exactly what you want from a cruiser car.

 

[smackababy]

What exactly is this Audio S5? Some kind of new MP3 player?

 

[Phanuel]

Yeah, but that's a different car altogether. I feel the S should have high 300's this day and age.

Well, the V6 is underrated from the factory. Tuners report seeing low to mid 300s at the wheels. The engine itself is probably producing north of 370 before drive train loses.

 

[felang]

There really is only one reason to get the V8 isntead of the V6... the exhaust note is a lot nicer. That being said, the V6 is less thirsty, faster, easier to drive (more torque) and can be tuned extremely cheaply and effectively (ECU flash).

 

[_Rick_]

Err wouldn't you want the v8 per that reasoning? My S8 has enough torque down low to move buildings, which is exactly what you want from a cruiser car.

OP gave the torque value.
Both cars produce roughly equal max torque, but the turbo has it around 3.5k rpm (once the turbos spool up), while the N/A V8 needs 5.5-7k rpm (but has "instant" reaction at those rpm).

In modern cars, turbo lag is usually shorter than the time it takes to drop down two gears and spin the engine up.
So with the turbo engine, you're usually cruising right in the torque band, while with the N/A the noise and fuel consumption of doing so, would make it unlikely.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Well, the V6 is underrated from the factory. Tuners report seeing low to mid 300s at the wheels. The engine itself is probably producing north of 370 before drive train loses.

Since these are AWD - drivetrain losses are closer to 20%. So 320 at the wheels would be close to 400 at the wheels. Seems surprising Audi would underrate their engines by that much.

The supercharged 3.0L has been universally praised by the automotive community as being one helluva an engine with a great powerband - therefore the 3.0l would be my choice.

 

[Fenixgoon]

if you want torque, get the V6T. if you want a engine that loves to rev, get the V8.

personally, i'd go with the V6T.

 

[DaTT]

I'd get the V6, because the S5 isn't a very sporty car, but more of a cruiser. Easy turbo-torque is more suitable for such a car. And with a new ECU, a high octane diet and a bit more boost, the turbo should make some HP gains as well, if that really matters. But beware "torque poisoning" and the car eating its gearbox or other little details (see broken engine mounts, axles and what not in one of the turbo-MR2 threads )
Chris Harris from /drive did a little feature comparing a tuned S4 to an RS4, that might be relevant to you.

The S5 is Supercharged, not Turbo'd.

 

[halik]

Since these are AWD - drivetrain losses are closer to 20%. So 320 at the wheels would be close to 400 at the wheels. Seems surprising Audi would underrate their engines by that much.

The supercharged 3.0L has been universally praised by the automotive community as being one helluva an engine with a great powerband - therefore the 3.0l would be my choice.

Hmm that didn't sound right, turns tend to make peak torque way later.
V6T dyno

vs the V8s

I certainly don't remember my B6 S4 being a super high would motor.

 

[Spicedaddy]

I've driven the 4.2 V8 in the old S4, and I have the 3.0T supercharged V6 in my Q5. I'd go for the 3.0T personally. It's the most bulletproof engine Audi has IMO, is lighter, burns less fuel, and gets good gains with a software upgrade.

 

[_Rick_]

The S5 is Supercharged, not Turbo'd.

Thanks, got thrown off by the "T" designation, which everywhere else in the world would indicate a turbine.... (and OP going on and on about turbo cars while discussing a supercharged one)

 

[DaTT]

Thanks, got thrown off by the "T" designation, which everywhere else in the world would indicate a turbine.... (and OP going on and on about turbo cars while discussing a supercharged one)

Agreed, not sure why Audi kept the T.

 

[Phanuel]

You can get some side badges that say "Supercharged" for some extra $ when ordering.. but yes, it makes no sense.

 

[Spicedaddy]

Yeah, makes no sense. Their reasoning is it's a mechanical turbocharger, hence the "T". The 2013 Q5 had a "3.0T" badge, but for 2014 and I think 2015 all gas models (2.0T and 3.0T) just say "TFSI".

So first question I get is: "What does TFSI stand for?" Turbo, direct injection...
Second question: "Oh, so it's a 2.0 liter turbo?" Nope, it's a 3.0 liter V6...
Third question: "Wow, a V6 turbo, nice!" Yeah, actually it's not a turbo but a supercharger...

I wish it said "3.0 V6 Supercharged"

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Was being facetious. :sneaky:

But, look at the S5's competition...

435i
C350
IS350

Power alone, Audi wins. Naturally that's not the end all be all metric, but there's no real need for more power in that segment. Plus, and not that this was necessarily done by design, there are plenty of gains to be made in the aftermarket.

I think the S5 really deadens the "S" labeling for Audi.

It would be more appropriate just to call it an A5 with an optional sport package.


S comes across as their "performance" division, similar to M / AMG / V.



But it doesn't come close to competing.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Plus the S5 is a ~$55k car.

The m4/m3 is a ~$60k car.




Yet the RS5 is a $75k car.



So price-wise, labeling-wise, you would expect an S5 to be able to compete.

 

[KentState]

Yeah, makes no sense. Their reasoning is it's a mechanical turbocharger, hence the "T". The 2013 Q5 had a "3.0T" badge, but for 2014 and I think 2015 all gas models (2.0T and 3.0T) just say "TFSI".

So first question I get is: "What does TFSI stand for?" Turbo, direct injection...
Second question: "Oh, so it's a 2.0 liter turbo?" Nope, it's a 3.0 liter V6...
Third question: "Wow, a V6 turbo, nice!" Yeah, actually it's not a turbo but a supercharger...

I wish it said "3.0 V6 Supercharged"

Wish my car came with external supercharger badges. Would make explaining what it has under the hood a little easier, but I guess the general populous thinks it's just another V6 senior citizen mobile.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Thanks, got thrown off by the "T" designation, which everywhere else in the world would indicate a turbine.... (and OP going on and on about turbo cars while discussing a supercharged one)

superchargers have turbines too (or more properly, compressors, i think. compressors do work on the fluid, turbines extract work from the fluid )

I think the S5 really deadens the "S" labeling for Audi.

It would be more appropriate just to call it an A5 with an optional sport package.


S comes across as their "performance" division, similar to M / AMG / V.



But it doesn't come close to competing.

that's because the S-cars are supposed to compete with the high-end, non-M cars (S5 vs. 335, for example).

the RS cars are the M and AMG competitors.