Attempting to set up a WC rig

[Ariste]

Hey everyone. I'm going to be building a new system soon and am planning on using a water cooling setup. It will be my first time, though, so I'd like some feedback on my plans. I'll first list the components I plan to use and then I'll ask some questions. Here's what I've got planned:

Water Block- Swiftech MCW6002-64 or DangerDen TDX Athlon 64 Block (depends if the Swiftech is in stock when I'm ready to buy)

Pump- Mag 3 Water Pump

Radiator- DangerDen Double Heater Core

Reservoir- DangerDen Clear Reservior w/ 80mm mounting pattern

Tubing- ClearFlex60 1/2" ID Tubing

All of this will be setup with an Athlon 64 system in a Cooler Master CM Stacker case.

Here's my questions:

I've heard that the Mag 3 is a great pump, but that it will need some leak proofing. What does this leak proofing entail? How do I do it? Will I need anything extra? Or maybe I should go with a different pump like the Swiftech MCP650. The downside is that it is almost twice as expensive. I think I would rather spend the extra money and not have to deal with leak problems, though, since this will be my first WC system. Will there be any drawbacks to getting the MCP650?

Also, is that the heater core that I should be getting? Would I be better off going with a standard single heater core instead of a double?

Also, how do I mount the heater core? Internal would be preferred, but if it would be much easier to do it externally I wouldn't be completely opposed to it. I was looking at mounting it via a Swiftech Radbox which could be mounted by the rear 80mm fan mount in the spare PSU bay on the CM Stacker. I would install the PSU in the bottom bay and use the top bay to mount the radiator. Would this setup work, or would the fan mounts be too flimsy to mount a radiator on? Could I even get two of the Rad Boxes and mount them on both 80mm fan mounts to accomodate a double heater core?

I also noticed that the PCI pass through only accomodates 3/8" ID tubing, but I think that I would need to go with 1/2" ID tubing for my system. I guess I could always get a standard single heater core and a single Rad Box, which would leave the other 80mm fan hole open to pass the tubes through. Would it hurt my system performance a lot by reducing the radiator size from a double to a single?

Finally, how much better would this setup be than the best air cooling setup available? Is it worth the extra cash?

I know this is a lot of questions, so any advice that you guys have would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

 

[Big Lar]

Originally posted by: Ariste
Hey everyone. I'm going to be building a new system soon and am planning on using a water cooling setup. It will be my first time, though, so I'd like some feedback on my plans. I'll first list the components I plan to use and then I'll ask some questions. Here's what I've got planned:

Water Block- Swiftech MCW6002-64 or DangerDen TDX Athlon 64 Block (depends if the Swiftech is in stock when I'm ready to buy)

Pump- Mag 3 Water Pump

Radiator- DangerDen Double Heater Core

Reservoir- DangerDen Clear Reservior w/ 80mm mounting pattern

Tubing- ClearFlex60 1/2" ID Tubing

All of this will be setup with an Athlon 64 system in a Cooler Master CM Stacker case.

Here's my questions:

I've heard that the Mag 3 is a great pump, but that it will need some leak proofing. What does this leak proofing entail? How do I do it? Will I need anything extra? Or maybe I should go with a different pump like the Swiftech MCP650. The downside is that it is almost twice as expensive. I think I would rather spend the extra money and not have to deal with leak problems, though, since this will be my first WC system. Will there be any drawbacks to getting the MCP650?

Also, is that the heater core that I should be getting? Would I be better off going with a standard single heater core instead of a double?

Also, how do I mount the heater core? Internal would be preferred, but if it would be much easier to do it externally I wouldn't be completely opposed to it. I was looking at mounting it via a Swiftech Radbox which could be mounted by the rear 80mm fan mount in the spare PSU bay on the CM Stacker. I would install the PSU in the bottom bay and use the top bay to mount the radiator. Would this setup work, or would the fan mounts be too flimsy to mount a radiator on? Could I even get two of the Rad Boxes and mount them on both 80mm fan mounts to accomodate a double heater core?

I also noticed that the PCI pass through only accomodates 3/8" ID tubing, but I think that I would need to go with 1/2" ID tubing for my system. I guess I could always get a standard single heater core and a single Rad Box, which would leave the other 80mm fan hole open to pass the tubes through. Would it hurt my system performance a lot by reducing the radiator size from a double to a single?

Finally, how much better would this setup be than the best air cooling setup available? Is it worth the extra cash?

I know this is a lot of questions, so any advice that you guys have would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Well, I can attest to Swiftech blocks in general, I don't run that particular 1, but Swiftech makes great products. As to the Mag3, I run 1 here, and havn't had any leaks. Tho I did hear that a few had a leak somewhere around the Intake of the pump, and fixed said with silicone.

 

[Ariste]

Thanks for the advice. Anyone else?

 

[gotensan01]

I think you should just get the single heater core. Even if you plan water cooling your GPU, a single one will be fine. Heck, even if you water cool your chipset the single heater core will be fine. The single heater core and easily be mounted internally in your stacker. I'm mounting a single heater core in my wavemaster which is considerably smaller.

Both CPU water blocks are kick ass so it doesn't matter which you choose. I have heard great things about the mcw6002 though.

I personally would rather go with the mcp650 over the mag3. I have also heard that you need to leak proof the mag so I wouldn't want to deal with it...although I can't see it being difficult. I think the mcp650 is the same as the Danger Den pump which is very good. The mcp650 is small and it uses a 4 pin molex from your PSU...these two features are a huge plus. I know the mag 3 is going to pump more at a higher head but the mcp650 will probably be more convenient and simpler for you.

You should be able to keep everything internal so you don't need to worry about the PCI pass through. Does the stacker have a top 80mm case fan opening? I have the same res and I'm going to mount it on the top case fan opening of the wavemaster. If you don't have a top case fan opening, have you thought about a bay res?

The final question about how much better it is than air cooling is going to depend on what you're looking for. If you aren't going to overclock and you don't care about noise, water cooling may just end up being a fun project for you. If you are going to overclock, then water cooling is a huge plus. I've heard good things about the thermalright HSF with overclocking but I would much rather prefer water, especially if you go with all the good components you described.

btw, you might want to consider Cool Sleeves, shrouds, and water additives.

EDIT: and get some Artic Silver for the water block

 

[Ariste]

Thanks, gotensan01.

Yeah, I'm beginning to think that a single heater core may be better as well. It would fit internally with no problems in my case. I just don't know how to physically mount the thing. How do I connect it to the case? Can I just put it in there with some tape and ties or something? Or do I have to actually screw it into the case? Also, I guess I would mount it with the barbs facing inwards and the fan sucking in air from the front, right?

Thanks for the advice about the pumps. I think I'm gonna take your advice and go with the MCP650 due to it's convenience.

As for the reservoir, yes my case has an 80mm hole on the top, but I'd like to keep the fan that's mounted there for heat removal. I'm planning on mounting the reservoir on one of the 80mm fan mounts on the back of the case. It would be sideways instead of hanging down, though. Is that ok?

Also, how do I fill/bleed the system with a reservoir? I know it's kind of off topic, but I've been wondering how and could only find guides that fill/bleeded with a T-line.

As for the final question... hell yes I plan on overclocking Otherwise I'd be going with air for half the price. I'm getting an Athlon 64 3000+ and am hoping to get it to the 2.6-2.7GHz range

Thanks for all of your help,

 

[gotensan01]

hmm, I haven't quite thought about how I'd hold the rad down. If you look here, you can see how in the front bottom there's the hdd bay area. I was going to cut out just the right amount of the aluminum so that the rad will be held down by what was remaining on top. btw I'm mounting the rad right where the two 80mm fans are. Then I will only have to worry about keeping the rad from moving back. I think I'll use some ties or something...shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

Mount the rad like you said you would but I would consider getting shrouds and another fan to pull air through rad. Then you'll have a push-pull system. Having the air sucked in from the outside and blowing into the case is good cause it will cool the video card too. The air coming out of rad shouldn't be too much hotter than ambient air.

Mounting the res on the back 80mm case fan slot is popular also. The only reason I'm not doing that is because it would be a pain to install that and have the CPU block and Chipset block. It gets really crowded back there. You should definetly have a fan exhausting back there too.

Filling and bleeding with the res. LOL, I never quite thought about this...I'm sure someone has asked this before on these forums. I'll search and see what I can find. Or ask in this thread. make sure you don't ask in the middle of a huge reply cause people won't read it then.

Clawhammer core for your processor?

 

[Ariste]

Thanks for your reply.

I think that I'm going to end up mounting the radiator with a Rad Box (look in my first post) on a back 80mm fan slot. What I'll do is I'll install the PSU in the bottom bay so that the top 2 80mm spots are open. Then I'll install the Rad Box and radiator and fan on one of the 80mm spots and the res will be right next to it so that I don't need lots of tubing. How do you think that would work?

Also, what fan configuration do you think I should use for an externally mounted radiator? Like which way should I be pulling air into the radiator from? From the case or from the air outside? I think it would have to be from the case because the rad box mounts with the fan on the back of the radiator near the case. The only problem that I see with this is that it would be pulling hot exhaust air from inside the case through the radiator. Would that be a problem? If it is, I guess I could mount another fan on the other sie of the radiator and have it suck in air and have the other fan on the back push air into the case. Would that work?

EDIT: Nope, I wish I was getting a Clawhammer, but I can't find a CG Revision Clawhammer anywhere. If I could, I'd definitely be getting it though.

Thanks again for your help,

 

[gotensan01]

Okay, I never really looked at the installation pictures but now I see what to do. So from the case out you have the radbox, fan, then rad. Have the fan pull air from the radbox and blow it across the rad. It won't draw air from inside the case. It will draw air from the side openings of the radbox. So this grabs cooler ambient air and exhausts it ouside the case...pretty good thing. Putting another fan on the other side to pull air from the rad and push it outside into the open will help (this is called the push-pull setup). The only drawback I see is that you have this humongous tumor in the back of your comp.

Mounting the PSU at the bottom and putting the res right next to the rad is a good idea if it fits. Whenever you can cut down on tubing, it's a good thing. Also, do you still plan on using the PCI slot for the tubing? If I were you, I would try to figure out another method. It'd be a waste to go from the radbox on top, all the way down to the pci slot, then all the way back up to the res. Also, the PCI slot is going to be a choke since it is a smaller diameter connection.

Is the fan in the middle back of the case a 120mm one? If so, you can just mount the rad on the other side of that fan. This will save you money and will take up less space at the back of your comp.

 

[gotensan01]

Here is the Clawhammer core version. I'm not quite sure if the Clawhammer is better than the Newcastle or not but I just heard the Clawhammer is better for overclocking.

 

[Ariste]

Wow thanks a ton, gotensan01. You've been a huge help.

Yeah, I wasn't sure about the Rad Box cause I didn't want to have this huge thing sticking out the back of my computer really.

Yeah, I wasn't going to use the PCI slot for tubing as it's not the right size. Yes, the big fan on the back is a 120mm fan... how would I mount the radiator to there? On the inside or the outside of the case do you mean? And would I have to drill any holes? I think that would be a great solution if I could find a way to mount it there, especially if it could be internal. But then I think there would be hte problem of having hot exhaust air blowing on the radiator.

Hmm I wonder if this plan would work. Do you think it would be possible to mount the radiator inside of one of the 4 in 3 device modules that are optional with the case? That way it would have cool intake air blowing on it from the 120mm fan on the 4 in 3 module with no need for a shroud or anything. Think it's possible without extensive modding?

As for the Clawhammer that you linked, the problem is that I'm not sure if it's a CG or a C0 revision. Usually you can tell if it's a CG if it has "AR" in the model name, or AP if its not, but this model number has niether. I'd rather take the safe bet and get a Newcastle than risk it and end up with a C0.

Again, thanks for your help.

 

[gotensan01]

When you order the rad from Danger Den, get the shroud also. Then you mount the 120mm fan on the inside back of the case with blowing air out of the case. Connect the shroud to the back of the case where the 120mm fan is on the side. Then connect the rad to the other open end of the shroud. I'm sure there are a couple other ways to do it as well. One being that you can mount the whole assembly on the outside (120mm fan included).

I don't know how much I would be concerned with taking in the "warm" case air to blow across the rad. I mean it is warmer than ambient air but it isn't hot. I have a feeling that using the air inside the case will be okay.

As for using the device module, I really don't know how you would use that. The device module is for 3.5" devices like hdd. If it is anything like my rad, it won't even fit into a 5.25" bay without slight modifications. But, you could just place the rad at the bottom front of your case (inside the 5.25" bay). Then you would take in cold air from outside.

 

[Ariste]

Ok, I understand what you mean about mounting it on the 120mm fan.

If I were to just place the radiator in the front of the case, how would that work? How would I physically mount it to the case? Would I have to do any case modding, or could I just use some string or something and tie the radiator to the front of the case somehow?

Also, how come the 4 in 3 device module wouldn't work? Look at this. The dimensions are 172x124x50mm. The dimensions of the 4 in 3 device are 184x153x129mm. According to those specs, the entire radiator should be able to fit inside a single 4 in 3 module. Then I could just use some ties or something to tie the radiator in there since the entire module has holes in it.

This is, essentially, the same as mounting it in the front of the case, except that I don't need to buy a shroud and a seperate fan, and I think it would be simpler and require less modding than mounting it in the front of the case. At least this way it is contained inside something and shouldn't be too hard to tie down. If I try to mount it in the front by itself, I think that I would have to mod the case to get it mounted, which I don't really want to get into since this is my first computer build.

So do you think it would work?

Thanks,

 

[gotensan01]

Oh, I thought you were buying the Danger Den heater core. I believe those are a lot bigger. Your link to www.radiator.com didn't work so well...or atleast I think it didn't work. Either way I guess you have a small enough radiator. If the dimensions are correct I'm sure it will work. A couple things to consider. First off, you would have to get hdd mounting brackets to get it to fit on 5.25 bays. Also, when you gave the dimensions of the rad and box are you sure they are the dimensions you are thinking of. Make sure those rad dimensions include the extra heads at each end. Also with the dimensions of the 4 in 3 device, make sure they are the inside opening dimensions. Otherwise it seems like a great idea to place the rad and fan assembly in that box.

 

[Ariste]

Thanks. Yeah I was originally going to go with a Danger Den heater core, but I switched to this one since I saw that it would fit inside the 4 in 3 device. For some reason the link won't work, but it's a Thermochill HE120.1 radiator. Is that a good enough radiator, or would I be better off going with something bigger?

Also, I think I edited my last post after you saw it, so I'll ask again: How would mounting the radiator/heater core in the front of my case work? Would I have to drill any holes or anything? Or could i just simply tie the heater core to the front of the case using string or something?

Thanks again for your help,

 

[gotensan01]

I've heard really good things about the Thermochill radiators. But keep in mind that the Thermochill and Black Ice radiators are basically just heater cores. They just look a lot nicer and cost a lot more.

About mounting the heater core in the front of your case...I'm not quite sure. I figured with some glue sticks and tie downs I could figure out a way to hold it. I mean first I would try to screw it down to any pre-existing holes. However if I cannot find any (which will probably be the case), I will just use my glue and tie down method. There are a bunch of places you can find to loop a plastic tie. I think this will just take creativity.

 

[Ariste]

Alright, thanks, gotensan. I really appreciate all of your help.

 

[pelikan]

I'd go with the swiftech pump instead. Its more powerful and runs off 12V so you don't need a relay. Also, it uses less votage and so will add less heat to your system.
The best radiator is a single pass heatercore, like the fedco 2-342. There is less flow restriction. But anything that will fit 2 x 120mm fans will work very well.
Zip ties fit between the fins of the rad and can be used to secure it to the front of the case.

 

[Ariste]

Thanks for the advice, pelikan. I think I'm going to stick with the DangerDen double heater core because I've heard good things about DangerDen, but thanks for your advice about mounting with zip ties. I think that that is the way I will mount it.

Thanks,

 

[Sokratz]

Originally posted by: Ariste
Hey everyone. I'm going to be building a new system soon and am planning on using a water cooling setup. It will be my first time, though, so I'd like some feedback on my plans. I'll first list the components I plan to use and then I'll ask some questions. Here's what I've got planned:

Water Block- Swiftech MCW6002-64 or DangerDen TDX Athlon 64 Block (depends if the Swiftech is in stock when I'm ready to buy)

Pump- Mag 3 Water Pump

Radiator- DangerDen Double Heater Core

Reservoir- DangerDen Clear Reservior w/ 80mm mounting pattern

Tubing- ClearFlex60 1/2" ID Tubing

All of this will be setup with an Athlon 64 system in a Cooler Master CM Stacker case.

Here's my questions:

I've heard that the Mag 3 is a great pump, but that it will need some leak proofing. What does this leak proofing entail? How do I do it? Will I need anything extra? Or maybe I should go with a different pump like the Swiftech MCP650. The downside is that it is almost twice as expensive. I think I would rather spend the extra money and not have to deal with leak problems, though, since this will be my first WC system. Will there be any drawbacks to getting the MCP650?

Also, is that the heater core that I should be getting? Would I be better off going with a standard single heater core instead of a double?

Also, how do I mount the heater core? Internal would be preferred, but if it would be much easier to do it externally I wouldn't be completely opposed to it. I was looking at mounting it via a Swiftech Radbox which could be mounted by the rear 80mm fan mount in the spare PSU bay on the CM Stacker. I would install the PSU in the bottom bay and use the top bay to mount the radiator. Would this setup work, or would the fan mounts be too flimsy to mount a radiator on? Could I even get two of the Rad Boxes and mount them on both 80mm fan mounts to accomodate a double heater core?

I also noticed that the PCI pass through only accomodates 3/8" ID tubing, but I think that I would need to go with 1/2" ID tubing for my system. I guess I could always get a standard single heater core and a single Rad Box, which would leave the other 80mm fan hole open to pass the tubes through. Would it hurt my system performance a lot by reducing the radiator size from a double to a single?

Finally, how much better would this setup be than the best air cooling setup available? Is it worth the extra cash?

I know this is a lot of questions, so any advice that you guys have would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

The new version of the mag 3 doesn't need leak proofing, it's peachy. The problem was with teh screws and they now use metal ones. Some folks still recomend putting some silicon around the o-ring but I didn't and haven't seen any problems. That said, sometimes stuff needs to be leaked proofed anyways. My hydor needed to be encased in silicone.

Get your tubing from http://www.mcmaster.com/ you can order the clearflex on the cheap.

Screw that PCI pass through, get a dremel, cut it out.

Buy a heatercore instead of a BIX. It'll save you *crazy* cash and be 2x as good.

I like the DD TDX block above the swifty. but i'm biased because i hate them.

If you want to do this right, (and i didn't the first time either), go back and read up a lot more. start with overclockers.com and check out more forums. 75% of this stuff you can build/buy on your own and it'll be better and *much* less costly.

 

[CWebb04]

Instead of the dangerden reservoir, why not go with this reservoir from xoxide:

Text

The main advantage is that the cap does not stick out as much, so if you ever wanted to mount is side ways even, you could. If you use it on the top hole opening of your case as you mentioned, the cap will be fairly flush with the top of the case.

 

[Ariste]

The new version of the mag 3 doesn't need leak proofing, it's peachy. The problem was with teh screws and they now use metal ones. Some folks still recomend putting some silicon around the o-ring but I didn't and haven't seen any problems. That said, sometimes stuff needs to be leaked proofed anyways. My hydor needed to be encased in silicone.

Get your tubing from http://www.mcmaster.com/ you can order the clearflex on the cheap.

Screw that PCI pass through, get a dremel, cut it out.

Buy a heatercore instead of a BIX. It'll save you *crazy* cash and be 2x as good.

I like the DD TDX block above the swifty. but i'm biased because i hate them.

If you want to do this right, (and i didn't the first time either), go back and read up a lot more. start with overclockers.com and check out more forums. 75% of this stuff you can build/buy on your own and it'll be better and *much* less costly.

Alright, I guess I'll go with the Mag 3 then Where do you recommend I get it from?

Yeah, I'm not gonna use the Rad Box anymore, so I dont' need to worry about a PCI pass through. I'm going to try to mount a double heater core internally in the front of my case... think it'll work? If not I'll just sit it outside of the case and run the tubes through one of the extra fan holes in the back.

Thanks for the help.

And CWebb04, it's kind of funny... I just saw that reservoir last night and switched over to it

Thanks for the advice guys.

 

[Sokratz]

Originally posted by: Ariste

The new version of the mag 3 doesn't need leak proofing, it's peachy. The problem was with teh screws and they now use metal ones. Some folks still recomend putting some silicon around the o-ring but I didn't and haven't seen any problems. That said, sometimes stuff needs to be leaked proofed anyways. My hydor needed to be encased in silicone.

Get your tubing from http://www.mcmaster.com/ you can order the clearflex on the cheap.

Screw that PCI pass through, get a dremel, cut it out.

Buy a heatercore instead of a BIX. It'll save you *crazy* cash and be 2x as good.

I like the DD TDX block above the swifty. but i'm biased because i hate them.

If you want to do this right, (and i didn't the first time either), go back and read up a lot more. start with overclockers.com and check out more forums. 75% of this stuff you can build/buy on your own and it'll be better and *much* less costly.

Alright, I guess I'll go with the Mag 3 then Where do you recommend I get it from?

Yeah, I'm not gonna use the Rad Box anymore, so I dont' need to worry about a PCI pass through. I'm going to try to mount a double heater core internally in the front of my case... think it'll work? If not I'll just sit it outside of the case and run the tubes through one of the extra fan holes in the back.

Thanks for the help.

And CWebb04, it's kind of funny... I just saw that reservoir last night and switched over to it

Thanks for the advice guys.

why not build a resevior our of a million and one objects? save you another 10 bux, and you could mod leds inside of it or something. if you're goign to put the effort into watercooling, you might as well accept your geekness and be a true modder.

I like the idea of a single pass heatcore mounted in the front. as long as it fits.. some folks even mount them on the top, but i don't like that as much (heat rises, and it's harder to bleed a res on the top-though you could add a third barb to it for bleeding purposes). as for mounting the HC, some folks have used tranmission mounting straps. you can get them at napa and other places. or gettho some zip ties on there

good luck

 

['BARtMAN']

I'm setting up a WC system now also, and I have the same CM Stacker case...

How did you end up mounting the system? I have a lan party this weekend and I really need to get everything ordered today, next day aired and setup tomorrow... So I have no time for screwing around...

I'm probably going to go for DTek's flowmaster XT kit with whitewater block, eheim 1250 pump... I've got a 120x38mm sunon that I can slap on the Hi Flow PRO-120 Radiator... I'm now waiting for their sales to get in before I can see for sure if I can get all of this by tomorrow...

I really wish I wouldn't have gotten this mobile barton, it's just too hot to run at 200fsb and a vcore that is stable, I'm ending up paying so much out to get the damn thing to work right