attacks and deaths in crimea against vice and non russians

[norseamd]

at least 2 have died in crimea including a tatar man and a ukrainian soldier.

vice was also attacked.

despite what some have been saying on these forums it is clear what is happening at least with the russians. despite any subterfuge the americans and the west may have been doing the russians have been using threats and violence to get what they want. the outlook is not looking good at all.

http://www.vice.com/read/my-documentary-crew-was-attacked-in-ukraine-for-being-american

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoZwWzYBBkc

 

[brandonb]

If Russia was as bad as the sheep claim, then they would have steam rolled over Crimea without hesitation and just taken over Ukraine.

The fact there has been only 2 deaths (which are probably CIA operatives trying to stir up trouble), I'd say Russia isn't as half bad as the media wants you to believe.

 

[Genx87]

lol cia operatives

 

[Jaskalas]

You point to 2 deaths to prove... what? How many died in Iraq?

Better yet, you think there has been zero violence against Russians in the rest of Ukraine? Ethnic and national divisions are usually quite bloody. That's human nature, especially during revolutions, government take overs, and the use of force. Rule of law is jeopardized in times of crisis. You didn't think anyone would die?

2 people in 2 weeks of occupation. That's a far cry from an invasion. In fact it rather sounds like the populace supports their presence and the door was left wide open. The outlook is good for Russia, bad for everyone else. And yet... I'm betting there are a lot of Tatar's in Crimea who are not dead. Do they feel cheated or oppressed? Most likely. Does that lead to resentment, hatred, and violence? You bet.

We'll learn a lot of the... virtues of Russia by how this minority is treated. If their history and modern prosecution of others is any indication, it will not go well and acts of evil are likely to be committed. What are we to do?

This all belongs in a larger "meta" topic for the Russian invasion of Crimea. It'd help keep things in perspective, and hoping against our nature, on topic. For you see this really isn't its own topic. You have presented a new piece of information, but what are you using it for? I'm picturing the P&N standard of it becoming polarized and circle jerked back and forth, likely rehashing previous commentary from other Crimea topics. For when all is said and done, we've got to look at this with full context. The greater topic deserves its place in any discussion regarding Crimea.

I start by asking what 2 deaths really mean, and what should we do about Crimea? To which... I've already posted my answer. How about yours?

 

[norseamd]

You point to 2 deaths to prove... what? How many died in Iraq?

Better yet, you think there has been zero violence against Russians in the rest of Ukraine? Ethnic and national divisions are usually quite bloody. That's human nature, especially during revolutions, government take overs, and the use of force. Rule of law is jeopardized in times of crisis. You didn't think anyone would die?

2 people in 2 weeks of occupation. That's a far cry from an invasion. In fact it rather sounds like the populace supports their presence and the door was left wide open. The outlook is good for Russia, bad for everyone else. And yet... I'm betting there are a lot of Tatar's in Crimea who are not dead. Do they feel cheated or oppressed? Most likely. Does that lead to resentment, hatred, and violence? You bet.

We'll learn a lot of the... virtues of Russia by how this minority is treated. If their history and modern prosecution of others is any indication, it will not go well and acts of evil are likely to be committed. What are we to do?

This all belongs in a larger "meta" topic for the Russian invasion of Crimea. It'd help keep things in perspective, and hoping against our nature, on topic. For you see this really isn't its own topic. You have presented a new piece of information, but what are you using it for? I'm picturing the P&N standard of it becoming polarized and circle jerked back and forth, likely rehashing previous commentary from other Crimea topics. For when all is said and done, we've got to look at this with full context. The greater topic deserves its place in any discussion regarding Crimea.

I start by asking what 2 deaths really mean, and what should we do about Crimea? To which... I've already posted my answer. How about yours?

your opinion and alignment is guiding your suggestions. you already have suggested the russian view many times

 

[norseamd]

The fact there has been only 2 deaths (which are probably CIA operatives trying to stir up trouble)

you know that is not the truth at all. the crimeans have already announced their huge displeasure with the current way things are happening.

also vice was attacked in broad daylight. they are journalists not spys. they have said many things that western governments would not want known. they may not be the most esteemed source in journalism but this does not change what happened to them over there.

 

[Jaskalas]

your opinion and alignment is guiding your suggestions. you already have suggested the russian view many times

Calling for a military build up and acting in WAR against Russia if they take another inch of land, is the Russian view? I've made some definitive statements in the Crimean vote topic, one of which I've linked.

Or maybe you are dynamically opposed to the notion of independence. I do call for a diplomatic process for that. Maybe we could delve into that, and if you want it to be topical, we can discuss how likely people are to die from violence one way or the other.

 

[norseamd]

Calling for a military build up and acting in WAR against Russia if they take another inch of land, is the Russian view? I've made some definitive statements in the Crimean vote topic, one of which I've linked. Or maybe you are dynamically opposed to the notion of independence. I do call for a diplomatic process for that. Maybe we could delve into that, and if you want it to be topical, we can discuss how likely people are to die from violence one way or the other.

fine what ever.

gintaras and senseamp are the noted pro russians but i remembered you saying some stuff. i did pause before saying that but most of what i remembered you saying was somewhat pro russian but i remembered that you might have been more neutral.

not opposed to this being one thread but the attacks were worrying and i thought since other things about ukraine had their own threads this was just as important.

will post my links in the other area

 

[zinfamous]

If Russia was as bad as the sheep claim, then they would have steam rolled over Crimea without hesitation and just taken over Ukraine.

The fact there has been only 2 deaths (which are probably CIA operatives trying to stir up trouble), I'd say Russia isn't as half bad as the media wants you to believe.

tap tap...this thing on?