Attack on US embassy in Iraq

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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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This strike was an act of internal Iranian politics. There is window dressing ala Trump.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
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Iran getting pay back, that last round of protests they had really pissed Tehran off.

Iran and it's Shia militas want to be able to kill Americans without repercussions. Tough shit. Don't worry, I'm sure it's another situation Trump can make worse like he does with everything.
Iran doesn't want to see Iraq ever regain the ability to launch another war on it like it did in the 80s. Not everything is about America.
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
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Peter Bergen writes this foolish editorial whereby he explains that Trump's decision to conduct the airstrikes is a "sensible use of force." He's calling it the emerging "Trump doctrine." He forgets that Trump must first know what a doctrine is in order to have one.

It is hard to believe anything coherent or concious enough to merit the term 'doctrine' is likely to come out of the chaos of competing interest groups around Trump, combined with the filter of his dysfunctional personality. But it could still be that some pattern can be detected in what emerges from the mess.

The inconsistency and lack of direction seems dangerous though. As you say, the effect of the contradictory moves seems to be to step-wise escalate conflict, but without any specific end in mind.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
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Iran doesn't want to see Iraq ever regain the ability to launch another war on it like it did in the 80s. Not everything is about America.

While Shia Iran is in conflict with the Sunni world, I've heard it argued that the Iranian clerics also worry about Iraq emerging as a rival base for leadership of the Shia, so they don't want a powerful, stable, Shia-dominated Iraq either.
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
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Iran doesn't want to see Iraq ever regain the ability to launch another war on it like it did in the 80s. Not everything is about America.

I don't think anyone is submitting that, but like it or not this thread is about the US embassy. As I said, reciprocity.

War like the 80s takes an army like back in the 80s, and back then Iran didn't have the country peppered with militia, advisors and assets. That concern of Iraqi invasion is a lot farther off in the distance than dealing with MBS and a hired American military I'll wager, but then I'm no Persian theocrat.
 
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interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Trump has been proclaiming that his unpredictability is an advantage in foreign policy. I think that, for these smoldering tensions (Iran, North Korea, China trade war), it is the worst possible thing. Even to the extent he laid the bed for stoked tensions, no response to violent acts against us is wrong. But a doctrine is what we need with proportional responses aimed at avoiding escalation.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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Trump has been proclaiming that his unpredictability is an advantage in foreign policy. I think that, for these smoldering tensions (Iran, North Korea, China trade war), it is the worst possible thing. Even to the extent he laid the bed for stoked tensions, no response to violent acts against us is wrong. But a doctrine is what we need with proportional responses aimed at avoiding escalation.

If it’s an advantage in foreign policy then why does he have no foreign policy accomplishments?
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,745
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If it’s an advantage in foreign policy then why does he have no foreign policy accomplishments?

I keep asking this. Giving Putin what he wants and moving embassy to Jerusalem both seem to count as accomplishments from what I gather. Allies are to be sneered at though.

Same people who have difficulty in comprehending how backing out of an arms agreement makes 3rd parties reluctant to agree to anything else in the future. These people have shit for brains, it's amazing.
 
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ElFenix

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Mar 20, 2000
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This region was custom made by the West to guarantee divisiveness and war. We have sown the wind and shall reap the whirlwind.
this division goes back to the romans and their auxiliaries vs. the persians and theirs. the roman auxilaries tended to become sunni while the persian ones became shia (along with, of course, the persians).
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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this division goes back to the romans and their auxiliaries vs. the persians and theirs. the roman auxilaries tended to become sunni while the persian ones became shia (along with, of course, the persians).
Yes but they didn't create Iraq, an artificial nation with no natural reason to exist.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
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Vote republican and you vote for useless war.
Most wars are useless. No American President has successfully defined our role in a post Cold War world...Somalia, Kosovo, Libya, the Arab Spring, the resurgence of Russia, the rise of China, Syria and the war on Terror...every one a reasounding failure.

The first Gulf War was perhaps the only good example for how to deal with the insanity of the Middle East, and even in that war, we abandoned the Kurds.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
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The first gulf war was all about Bush’s re-election. Strategically it served no purpose other than maybe as an ad for American weapon systems.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
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This region was custom made by the West to guarantee divisiveness and war. We have sown the wind and shall reap the whirlwind.

I don't think it's exclusively the fault of 'the West'. Islam, the Mongols (who devastated that part of the world, setting it back centuries), lots of others did their bit. It takes a planet of hundreds of millions to truly screw things up. But, agreed, most recently its Europe and the US who added their standard colonial and imperialist stupidity.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
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Yes but they didn't create Iraq, an artificial nation with no natural reason to exist.
the conflict was going to be there regardless of the particular bounds of whatever state happened to control the area (all states are man made and, therefore, artificial). the people are intermixed, iraq has been a center of shiism since that has been a thing, while serving as the capital of the sunni abbasid caliphate (and go look at a map of what areas were directly ruled from baghdad - iraq isn't a new state).
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
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Most wars are useless. No American President has successfully defined our role in a post Cold War world...Somalia, Kosovo, Libya, the Arab Spring, the resurgence of Russia, the rise of China, Syria and the war on Terror...every one a reasounding failure.

The first Gulf War was perhaps the only good example for how to deal with the insanity of the Middle East, and even in that war, we abandoned the Kurds.

I’m glad we agree. Don’t vote republican.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
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Blaming Iranian backed militias for the rocket attack so we could bomb them is pure contrivance, an excuse to escalate the low level tensions already in existence. It could just as easily have been ISIS remnants. It's also a deliberate insult & injury to the already unstable Iraqi govt. With friends like us, who needs enemies?
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
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Blaming Iranian backed militias for the rocket attack so we could bomb them is pure contrivance, an excuse to escalate the low level tensions already in existence. It could just as easily have been ISIS remnants. It's also a deliberate insult & injury to the already unstable Iraqi govt. With friends like us, who needs enemies?

Trump in his great and unmatched wisdom has spoken.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
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I’m glad we agree. Don’t vote republican.
Mishandling of Iran factored into a Republican winning one of the largest landslide elections in modern history, and set in motion a decade that culminated in America winning the Cold War.

As for the current situation in Iraq, we decisively retaliated against Iranian aligned and supported militias, and reinforced the embassy against a protest that’s already dispersed. Seems like a competent response.

Obama had eight years to plan our withdrawal from Iraq. Granted, its a mess he inherited, but he didn’t resolve it either.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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Mishandling of Iran factored into a Republican winning one of the largest landslide elections in modern history, and set in motion a decade that culminated in America winning the Cold War.

As for the current situation in Iraq, we decisively retaliated against Iranian aligned and supported militias, and reinforced the embassy against a protest that’s already dispersed. Seems like a competent response.

Obama had eight years to plan our withdrawal from Iraq. Granted, its a mess he inherited, but he didn’t resolve it either.

And it gets pinned on Iranian backed militias because... it's convenient for the purpose of raising tensions with some bombing, obviously. Any number of malevolent actors could have made the rocket attack. And it's a real boon to the Iraqi govt, I'm sure. Oh, and never mind that the bombing took place 200 miles away from the rocket attack. Minor detail.

Have somebody look at your bullshit detector. I think it might be broken. Oh, and be sure to blame Obama somehow.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
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And it gets pinned on Iranian backed militias because... it's convenient for the purpose of raising tensions with some bombing, obviously. Any number of malevolent actors could have made the rocket attack. And it's a real boon to the Iraqi govt, I'm sure. Oh, and never mind that the bombing took place 200 miles away from the rocket attack. Minor detail.

Have somebody look at your bullshit detector. I think it might be broken. Oh, and be sure to blame Obama somehow.
Every reputable news source is pinning the rocket attacks on Iranian backed militias.