AT's latest video card testing results

[Will Robinson]

After reading the Powercolor HD5770 review I was struck by the fact that(contrary to a lot of FUD here lately) the Radeon HD5850 defeats the GTX460 in virtually every performance test.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3868/quick-look-powercolors-radeon-hd-5770-pcs-vortex-edition/2

Going through the results it appears that the higher price of the HD5850 is indeed justified as it's basically a faster card.

 

[Markfw]

In that link, I agree, its wins MOST (not all) tests.

Thanks Will ! (for the edit)

 

[BenSkywalker]

5850 wins 16 benches, 460 wins 5 benches.

5850 best price on the Egg, $270 AMIR; 460 1GB best price on the Egg $205 AMIR.

 

[zerocool84]

5850 wins 16 benches, 460 wins 5 benches.

5850 best price on the Egg, $270 AMIR; 460 1GB best price on the Egg $205 AMIR.

Yea I don't understand why he's trying to do this. It's a huge price difference between the two and not worth it.

 

[Markfw]

Yea I don't understand why he's trying to do this. It's a huge price difference between the two and not worth it.

Well, regardless of the reason, its faster, its costs more. So I guess the question is valid.

 

[Tempered81]

5850 is faster than the 460. When you run them in sli & cf and text using dx11, the tables turn.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Well, regardless of the reason, its faster, its costs more. So I guess the question is valid.

470 wins 17 benches, 5850 wins 4 benches.

470 best price on the Egg, $270 AMIR(w/Mafia II); 5850 best price on the Egg, $270 AMIR.

 

[happy medium]

The fps in both the 5770 and original gtx460 reviews are the same for the gtx 460 and 5850. Nothing has changed as far as performance is concerned, overall the 5850 is 8 percent faster. The ONLY thing thats changed is the price of the 5850 and gtx460, it was about $300 for the 5850 vs $230 for the gtx460, now as stated above, it's $270 vs $205. So the 5850 instead of being $70 more exspensive is now 65$ more exspensive.

So do the math 8 percent overall better performance for 65$ more?

What is the point of this thread? Does the 5850 suddenly become a better buy because its now $65 more exspensive vs $70 more exspensive before?

When the 5850 is $30 more, bump the thread and we can have something to discuss besides this blantent troll thread.

 

[Will Robinson]

What is the point of this thread?

Oh the irony...

When the 5850 is $30 more, bump the thread and we can have something to discuss besides this blantent troll thread.

It's "blatant" by the way.

*expensive*

 

[esquared]

The fps in both the 5770 and original gtx460 reviews are the same for the gtx 460 and 5850. Nothing has changed as far as performance is concerned, overall the 5850 is 8 percent faster. The ONLY thing thats changed is the price of the 5850 and gtx460, it was about $300 for the 5850 vs $230 for the gtx460, now as stated above, it's $270 vs $205. So the 5850 instead of being $70 more exspensive is now 65$ more exspensive.

So do the math 8 percent overall better performance for 65$ more?

What is the point of this thread? Does the 5850 suddenly become a better buy because its now $65 more exspensive vs $70 more exspensive before?

When the 5850 is $30 more, bump the thread and we can have something to discuss besides this blantent troll thread.

Not every video card thread has to be listed in its price to efficiency or bang for the buck ratio.

The 5850 is faster than the gtx460. The 5850 costs more than the the gtx460.

No one was hiding that fact. If you want the faster card, it's going to cost you money.

Fact is, your continued statements (another one above, again) about the bang to the buck ratio is trolling in itself. Knock it off.


esquared
Anandtech Administrator

 

[midnilux]

GTX460 shines in SLI mode, I have two in SLI and they are better than my 2x 5850 crossfire set up was. They also run much quieter, cooler (especially with a good double fan cooler like Gigabyte's version) and they are easy to OC by 20%+ at stock voltages, my old 5850s could barely handle an 8% OC and the voltage was locked. You have to be lucky and get a good board/brand to really OC a 5850, any gtx460 I have heard of OC's very well, nvidia markets them for overclockers after all.

Also two 460s only cost me $460, two 5850s cost me $580 just about a month ago, so yes, take price into consideration.

 

[Will Robinson]

Hmm,well seeing you've actually had and used both setups that is a pretty useful post/opinion.
Thanks dude.:thumbsup:
Shame you ninja edited the last part tho...:\

 

[happy medium]

Going through the results it appears that the higher price of the HD5850 is indeed justified as it's basically a faster card.

With all due respect Mr.esquared, my comments were to challenge the fact that this statement in not true, and the extra speed that th 5850 card does not justify the price when compared to the gtx 460 as written in the original Anand gtx460 review.
It is a well known fact in this forum and in many reviews that the 5850 needs a price cut.

Yea I don't understand why he's trying to do this. It's a huge price difference between the two and not worth it.

The OP also suggests that in reading the 5770 review vs the original revew that somehow this has changed. In fact nothing has changed.

It was actually the OP's above statement that needed to be corrected along with his attitude, which "Markfw900" allready addressed.

Again, I don't see how disputing false statements in a old (settled) arguement is trolling.
A better question what point as the OP getting at? Was there some hidden question I missed?

 

[esquared]

With all due respect Mr.esquared, my comments were to challenge the fact that this statement in not true, and the extra speed that th 5850 card does not justify the price when compared to the gtx 460 as written in the original Anand gtx460 review.
It is a well known fact in this forum and in many reviews that the 5850 needs a price cut.





The OP also suggests that in reading the 5770 review vs the original revew that somehow this has changed. In fact nothing has changed.

It was actually the OP's above statement that needed to be corrected along with his attitude, which "Markfw900" allready addressed.

Again, I don't see how disputing false statements in a old (settled) arguement is trolling.
A better question what point as the OP getting at? Was there some hidden question I missed?

Again, that's just your opinion, nothing else. It just means its not for you. It doesn't make his statement false.

How do you know the extra price isn't justified. Maybe not for you but for others no problem.

You need to back off with this "opinions being fact". I am not going to warn again and I am not going to argue this point in this thread. You have a problem, post a mod discussion on it.


esquared
Anandtech Administrator

 

[Rifter]

With all due respect Mr.esquared, my comments were to challenge the fact that this statement in not true, and the extra speed that th 5850 card does not justify the price when compared to the gtx 460 as written in the original Anand gtx460 review.
It is a well known fact in this forum and in many reviews that the 5850 needs a price cut.





The OP also suggests that in reading the 5770 review vs the original revew that somehow this has changed. In fact nothing has changed.

It was actually the OP's above statement that needed to be corrected along with his attitude, which "Markfw900" allready addressed.

Again, I don't see how disputing false statements in a old (settled) arguement is trolling.
A better question what point as the OP getting at? Was there some hidden question I missed?

Agree with this post 100%, and the fact that the 460 OC's better than the 5850 on average makes the fact that the 5850 needs a price cut even more obvious.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Again, I don't see how disputing false statements in a old (settled) arguement is trolling.

What false statements are you reading? You interpret your own, that's what.

He never claimed the 5850 was as good or better bang for the buck as the 460. As with the case with almost all, you pay more for more performance and that extra usually comes with a premium to boot. It's always been that way: 4870 vs GTX 280, 4890 vs. 285, 8800GT vs. 8800GTX (same vendor, even), and etc. The field is one of the most dynamic and the best "bang for the buck" can change on a monthly timetable. There are many factors contributing to this: Demand, stock supply, EOL, rebates.

Obviously the 5850 is desired to come down in price. Hell it launched at $260. For whatever reason (supply low, demand high, etc) it isn't, but that doesn't change the fact there are no false statements in the OP.

 

[Powermoloch]

Aren't people forgetting that the 5850 has been out for a very long time now? Wasn't it a bargain since then went it was released a year before Nvidia was able to create their own equal cards?

Heck, the price of the 460GTX is a great deal when you look at it. But if I was a PC user who had been using 5850 for a very long time, in my eyes I see the 5850 being a best card at the time and it will still be that way If I want to save some money for the REAL next gen cards.

 

[RussianSensation]

Going through the results it appears that the higher price of the HD5850 is indeed justified as it's basically a faster card.

No question about it, 5850 is faster than a stock GTX460 1GB. However, 5850 competes with GTX470, not the 460. Since the 470 is also about $270-280 on Newegg, and has dipped to $230-260 on many occasions, I think 5850 should almost always be compared to the 470 only. When comparing to the GTX470, which is priced similar to the 5850, the 5850 is a more questionable proposition (of course it's a trade off between noise/power and performance). As BenSkywalker noted above, 5850 isn't so favourable since 470 outperforms it and 460 is cheaper. One can still make a case for the 5850 though (if you don't feel like overclocking the 460 and the heat and noise of the 470 are a concern), but 5870 ... well that's another matter.

In addition, don't forget that GTX460s overclock like champs. So someone on a budget will still choose the 460 for say $210-230 and overclock it to 900mhz. $40-60 can go towards a faster processor too.

Personally, considering the beating ATI cards are taking in Lost Planet 2, Starcraft 2, Metro 2033 and STALKER: CoP, it's becoming hard to recommend them. ATI is still competitive in 2560x1600 though. It will be interesting how 5850 does against 460/470 when H.A.W.X 2 and Medal of Honor are released.

 

[happy medium]

I was assuming that he read the oringinal gtx460 article and was comparing it to the 5770 article and somehow something has changed. Mabe I just read into to it too much.
I thought it was common knowlege that the 5850 was faster and everyone knew this.

It is my opinion that the price of the 5850 is too high compared to the 8 percent performance increase and thought most if not all of this forum, reviewers, (even he ATI fanbois) agreed.

My bad.

 

[Wreckage]

Going through the results it appears that the higher price of the HD5850 is indeed justified as it's basically a faster card.

As noted by several people the 470 is at the same price point and is faster.

Also if you are looking at SLI, DX11, PhysX, CUDA, 3D, Ambient Occlusion, etc. The value of the 5850 is severely diminished.

Maybe at $200 it would be a more attractive offering.

 

[midnilux]

That's the best part of switching to nvidia so far... don't have to deal with BS like physx not working, and AA that is locked in some games to nvidia only cards (which is retarded, and you can usually overcome it with 3rd party tools, but it's still annoying).

 

[brybir]

With all due respect Mr.esquared, my comments were to challenge the fact that this statement in not true, and the extra speed that th 5850 card does not justify the price when compared to the gtx 460 as written in the original Anand gtx460 review.
It is a well known fact in this forum and in many reviews that the 5850 needs a price cut.

...

Again, I don't see how disputing false statements in a old (settled) arguement is trolling.
A better question what point as the OP getting at? Was there some hidden question I missed?

I think what you are missing (and its not just you doing this) is making an assumption that price and performance should have some direct relationship....i.e. 8% better performance should be about 8% higher in price.

In reality, and in almost anything in a market economy, price is a function of many complex factors. It is true for cars, food, and video cards. It is not going to change. The price of the 5850, in theory, is set at the optimal point to maximize profits for AMD and its board partners. If it is the case they have little inventory and are selling most or all of the units they are making at the higher price, they do not need a price cut. You may want one, but it is not a good business choice for them. Then, each time period later, they have to decide whether they could make more money by lowering the price (by selling more units) or not. They clearly believe that the current price points are profit maximizing or they would be coming down faster.

Also, and Wrekage talks about this below albeit in his usual trollish ways, Nvidia and AMD both attempt to develop cards that have extra features that help them differentiate their cards from each other. If the cards merely did the *exact* same thing, then all they would have to compete on is price, and that is usually a losing battle resulting in one of the companies going bankrupt.

For example. I am in the market for a new video card. I have a 4850 from AMD. It has been a great card for me for the past few years. However it is starting to show its age. I also have 2 monitors I use extensively for work purposes. I would like to add a 3rd monitor to my office setup. I do not have an SLI motherboard. So, if I want mainstream or high mainstream graphics card performance and 3 monitor support I have to decide, do I buy a new motherboard and 2x Nvidia 460's or higher, or do I buy 1x 5850 or 5870? Since I do not need game on 3 monitors, just the larger center 30" monitor, the cost issue is strongly in favor of AMD on this one.

Point being is that their are some reasons someone should pay a higher price for AMD 5850 over a 460, with one being the case above. It makes more sense for me to pay a $65 premium to get what I want, even though the performance will be almost the same, because by spending the $65, I am actually savings hundreds by not needing an SLI board and 2x Nvidia cards.

So moral of the story, price/performance is dictated by many different market forces and many situations exist where it is easily justified for a product to be most costly for the same performance. It may not be true even some of the time, but those situations certainly exist.

 

[MagickMan]

The fact is, most of us bought out 5850s back when they were hands-down the best value you could find. It's still interesting, a year later, that they're still competitive. The GTX 460 is a better value, and AMD needs to drop their pricing. If the 5850 had an MSRP is $250, like it should be, then they'd be taking a much bigger bite out of nV's ass. As it is, they're still selling a lot of cards and there hasn't been much economic incentive to do anything.

TBH, I don't believe we'll see much of a drop at all until SI.

 

[Skurge]

I think what you are missing (and its not just you doing this) is making an assumption that price and performance should have some direct relationship....i.e. 8% better performance should be about 8% higher in price.

In reality, and in almost anything in a market economy, price is a function of many complex factors. It is true for cars, food, and video cards. It is not going to change. The price of the 5850, in theory, is set at the optimal point to maximize profits for AMD and its board partners. If it is the case they have little inventory and are selling most or all of the units they are making at the higher price, they do not need a price cut. You may want one, but it is not a good business choice for them. Then, each time period later, they have to decide whether they could make more money by lowering the price (by selling more units) or not. They clearly believe that the current price points are profit maximizing or they would be coming down faster.

Also, and Wrekage talks about this below albeit in his usual trollish ways, Nvidia and AMD both attempt to develop cards that have extra features that help them differentiate their cards from each other. If the cards merely did the *exact* same thing, then all they would have to compete on is price, and that is usually a losing battle resulting in one of the companies going bankrupt.

For example. I am in the market for a new video card. I have a 4850 from AMD. It has been a great card for me for the past few years. However it is starting to show its age. I also have 2 monitors I use extensively for work purposes. I would like to add a 3rd monitor to my office setup. I do not have an SLI motherboard. So, if I want mainstream or high mainstream graphics card performance and 3 monitor support I have to decide, do I buy a new motherboard and 2x Nvidia 460's or higher, or do I buy 1x 5850 or 5870? Since I do not need game on 3 monitors, just the larger center 30" monitor, the cost issue is strongly in favor of AMD on this one.

Point being is that their are some reasons someone should pay a higher price for AMD 5850 over a 460, with one being the case above. It makes more sense for me to pay a $65 premium to get what I want, even though the performance will be almost the same, because by spending the $65, I am actually savings hundreds by not needing an SLI board and 2x Nvidia cards.

So moral of the story, price/performance is dictated by many different market forces and many situations exist where it is easily justified for a product to be most costly for the same performance. It may not be true even some of the time, but those situations certainly exist.

Best post of the year.

Another thing. In countries outside the USA nvidia cards are very overpriced. In here in africa a 460 is the same price as a 5850, a 470 is more expensive than a 5870 and a 480 is the same price as a 5970. That could be another reason why AMD aren't making any price cuts.

 

[Ryan Smith]

Just as a friendly reminder guys, don't forget about our brand-new GPU Bench section of the site. You'll always find our latest data in there.