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++ ATOT official NEF thread part IV ++

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walk up to my car in a threatening manner=justification to clear leather
reach in a threatening manner=justification to put a muzzle in your eye, hard
touch me=....not good
 
Reminds me of an incident a few years ago. My dad, brother, and I went into a restaurant -- I think it was a Wendy's IIRC. There were a bunch of people standing around and they didn't appear to be in line but instead, looked like they were looking at the menu and trying to decide what to get.
 
Now keep in mind, the reason my dad, brother, and I were there (and my mom and other brother were already sitting down at a table) was because we were going to or from the Mayo Clinic for my dad's cancer treatments. So it wasn't pleasant for us.
 
Anyway, since no one appeared to really be next in line, we got into line. Suddenly, this old fucker starts bitching and making nasty remarks about us "cutting" in front of him.
 
Anyway, he keeps bitching and making nasty remarks. My dad says "Oh, I'm sorry, we didn't see you. Please go ahead." The old man keeps bitching and insulting us.
 
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I lost it in the restaurant. I got into his face and said (these were my exact words, and I yelled them at him):

"Stop your fucking bitching and either get your ass up there in line or you and I can go out in the parking lot and have a talk you won't like."
 
We were tired, stressed from my dad's treatments (he eventually died), and this fucker tipped me over the edge especially when my dad apologized and he kept bitching.
 
yeah see that wouldnt work for me.
I carry and if I ever had to go to court and explain myself, I'd need to show I tried avoiding the confrontation or at least didnt escalate it.
 
Anyway, I yelled at this old guy and he almost shit his pants. I think he genuinely feared that I was going to beat the shit out of him. He shut up, got in line, and there wasn't another peep from him.
 
shortylickens said:
yeah see that wouldnt work for me.
I carry and if I ever had to go to court and explain myself, I'd need to show I tried avoiding the confrontation or at least didnt escalate it.
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I'm older (41), out of shape (ie, fat), and probably would get my ass kicked in most cases. But I won't back down. The little guy today who threatened me was probably faster and stronger, but I'm also very smart and all it takes is getting someone on the ground (especially a little guy like that) and it is over for them.

I don't carry a weapon with me and even if I did, wouldn't have pulled it unless he touched me. I told my wife the story and she was PISSED at me. "What if he had a gun or knife and killed you?!?!?"
 
And honestly, I even felt bad for yelling at the old guy in the second story, despite the fact that he was acting like an asshole. It just pushed me over the edge that he kept insulting us even after my dying dad apologized and told him to go in front of us. That was probaby the first time I have ever had to stick up for myself or my family like that and I think it shocked my family as much as it did that old man.
 
shortylickens said:
yeah see that wouldnt work for me.
I carry and if I ever had to go to court and explain myself, I'd need to show I tried avoiding the confrontation or at least didnt escalate it.
Click to expand...

what state do you live in?

Castle Doctrine applies to your car here. If there is a threat, I have the right to use whatever force I deem necessary to eliminate the threat. There wouldn't even be a court case if you were in your car and shot an attacker.
 
I'm in Virginia. If somebody threatens my life I can shoot him dead with no warning.
BUT, I would also need to show I had no other choice. Starting a fight in a bar or diner or whatever would not likely be construed as self-defense.
 
I own no guns. My dad owned several and I suppose that some of them are mine, but I don't possess them (they're at my mom's house). I really wanted the German pistol my grandfather brought back with him from WWII, but my brother won't let that go.
 
shortylickens said:
I'm in Virginia. If somebody threatens my life I can shoot him dead with no warning.
BUT, I would also need to show I had no other choice. Starting a fight in a bar or diner or whatever would not likely be construed as self-defense.
Click to expand...

yeah...I heard Virginia's laws aren't quite as clear as other states.

Ours is cut and dry. If you are attacked, you can defend yourself. You do not need to run or even consider running. We had a famous case where a guy was pumping gas and someone came at him with a plastic garbage can lid. The guy pumping gas shot him in the face, dead.

No arrest, no charges, no outrage. It made for some debate but the prosecutor made it very clear that if someone is in danger, they can and should defend themselves.
 
rudeguy said:
yeah...I heard Virginia's laws aren't quite as clear as other states.

Ours is cut and dry. If you are attacked, you can defend yourself. You do not need to run or even consider running. We had a famous case where a guy was pumping gas and someone came at him with a plastic garbage can lid. The guy pumping gas shot him in the face, dead.

No arrest, no charges, no outrage. It made for some debate but the prosecutor made it very clear that if someone is in danger, they can and should defend themselves.
Click to expand...

Ummm, I think thats very clear.
You can only take a life in actual self-defense. Running around, shooting people like Clint Eastwood is not self-defense.
 
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