ATOT Legal Scholars - "Failure to Control Speed" Citation - Looking for Advice

[s0me0nesmind1]

Hello ATOT Legal experts -

I have a request for you folks here - Because for once I can safely say I have some... ahem... issues with legal enforcement.

So I was driving today - got to stop sign to turn on to the feeder road of a high-way. The guy in-front of me at the stop start moving forward as if he were completing his turn. Silly (and admittedly stupid) me was looking towards the traffic while incorrectly presuming the person actually proceeded forward since it was clear.... He did not. I bumped the guy - and nevertheless I made the incorrect mistake and bumped him. My bad, my fault, etc... Note: Prior to this, there was a line for the stop sign, so my car wasn't moving prior to this incident.

Pull over, agree to meet in another location - Which as a sidenote was rather funny, the guy runs off and goes to the agreed meet place. I could have very well taken off and ran from the scene EASILY - He was WAY ahead of me because I was held up from further traffic. Guy is lucky I'm the type with high morals to do such - but at that point he had NONE of my info... No phone number, no insurance info, or car info.

Meet up at the location - and similar to me, I haven't had a wreck in ~7-10 years or so. I honestly haven't had one since college which was 10 years ago. But the guy wants to do the protocol rules, and phones up police to get a police report for insurance sake. Totally fine - I understand and have no problem with it. We wait around and chat for 30+ minutes - I of course apologizing multiple times, asking if everyone is okay, etc...

Police come, they take all of our IDs (INCLUDING my wife who was riding passenger in my car for some reason). He sits in his car for over 20 minutes... Comes out and gives me a ticket/citation for "Failure to control speed". I was honestly fucking dumbfounded. I asked the cop (in the most polite manner) what this was for exactly, and basically saying I failed to stop in-time when hitting the person. I said - so basically, you can give this ticket out at anytime for anything when something is hit right? So if a person hits a squirrel in the road, they "failed to control their speed"? Yeah, pretty much.

When I do something wrong when it comes to driving, I eat it. I pay the ticket, take drivers ed, whatever I need to because I know it's my fault. But in this predicament, I can honestly say that this is full of shit and I'm looking to fight it. Does anyone have any tips in relation to this kind of BS? This is honestly just a way to attempt to generate revenue.

But off the top of my head - first and foremost - the cop wasn't present. He cannot act as a witness to the events. Second - by that definition the problem isn't that I failed to stop... the problem is that I accelerated. I know it seems silly - but that is a clear difference.

Kicker: The cop comes out and THEN cites the guy I hit for a suspended license LOL. Calling the cops fucked him over too. I had no qualms with the guy, so I felt bad for him... but it's a lesson learned to not call the cops for this type of stuff - they are strictly going out in an attempt to generate revenue, not protect and serve.


So with all of that said, does anyone have some tips on ways to fight this? Again, I DO NOT normally fight tickets - including speeding tickets. When I get caught, I eat it. In this case, I legitimately feel the law is full of shit and are looking to screw people over for no reason.

 

[lxskllr]

You're at fault for /something/, and failure to control speed sounds sounds as good as anything. Unless it's a greater penalty than the appropriate(?) charge, I wouldn't contest it.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

You're at fault for /something/, and failure to control speed sounds sounds as good as anything. Unless it's a greater penalty than the appropriate(?) charge, I wouldn't contest it.

Even the cop was saying "Just come into court and contest it - you will probably get something lesser"... basically a cop admitting it's bullshit.

But yeah, of course, whenever someone has a wreck/accident you're at fault for /something/ - that doesn't mean you broke a law and need to pay a citation. Accidents happen - hell, probably thousands per day happen. "Failure to control speed" is a load of shit - especially since I was at a stop sign.

 

[ImpulsE69]

You are at fault either way though. I did this many years ago. just wait until he sues your insurance company for back injuries. Happened to me once when I was young. Foot slipped off the brake and I coasted into the car in front of me. Barely a tap, no damage.

 

[lxskllr]

I don't disagree with you, but the way it works is someone has to be punished. Everything is setup that way. I always go to court for tickets. I usually make out better than just paying the ticket.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

You are at fault either way though. I did this many years ago. just wait until he sues your insurance company for back injuries. Happened to me once when I was young. Foot slipped off the brake and I coasted into the car in front of me. Barely a tap, no damage.

I don't disagree with you, but the way it works is someone has to be punished. Everything is setup that way. I always go to court for tickets. I usually make out better than just paying the ticket.

Do you guys get a ticket/citation everytime you have had a wreck?


@lxskllr what do you do in court when you get a reduction? Just say "my bad, can I get something less?" or "I'm broke, can you give me something less?"

As someone that never gone to court, just curious on what works best.

 

[lxskllr]

Do you guys get a ticket/citation everytime you have had a wreck?

No, but I never had one that involved another driver. If cops get called, someone's almost always getting a ticket.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

No, but I never had one that involved another driver. If cops get called, someone's almost always getting a ticket.

I guess it's odd to me - because last time that I had a wreck (10 years ago in college), I actually had a full-blown seizure. I hit a guy (without knowing), pull into a gas station because my car was making a weird noise (woke up from the seizure). Get out of my car, look at my car and see that I clearly hit something.

A guy pulls in 3 seconds later and says "Dude, you hit me"... Most I could reply was "... Uhhh... so I did".... But yeah, he calls the cops for a report, they come out, dish out a report, and that was it.

No citation on either. I cant even remember if he took my ID or not...

 

[ImpulsE69]

Do you guys get a ticket/citation everytime you have had a wreck?


@lxskllr what do you do in court when you get a reduction? Just say "my bad, can I get something less?" or "I'm broke, can you give me something less?"

As someone that never gone to court, just curious on what works best.

I've only ever been at fault twice in my life. I unfortunately have had many accidents over the years. I've actually been rear ended 5 times sitting at stop lights, two of them the cars were doing 45 when they hit me (at a dead stop). Two other times I've been rear ended while driving - those were weather related though. Crazy I know, but I've never been hurt.

The times I was at fault, there was no appearance, just a citation. I didn't try to fight them as I knew I was at fault.

I have fought speeding tickets though and won in court. You could try to appeal to the judge as it is your first offense and there were no injuries, but the outcome will really depend on what judge you get and their mood at the time you go in front of them.

 

[child of wonder]

but it's a lesson learned to not call the cops for this type of stuff - they are strictly going out in an attempt to generate revenue, not protect and serve.

Yup.

Check the laws in your state here:

https://drivinglaws.aaa.com/tag/accident-reporting/

In my state, if no one was injured, the damage is likely under $1,000, then there is no need to call the police because, as you found out, they'll just look to cash in on the incident. Trade information, tell the guy to get a repair estimate and send it to you BEFORE submitting to your insurance, and then you can decide whether you want your insurance to pay or just pay it yourself.

 

[JEDIYoda]

You stated the guy had a suspended license...
In many states somebody driving with a suspended license is always at fault if there is any kind of accident!
I would definitely go to court!
Seems like that is a slam dunk!!
He should not have been on the road in the first place!!

Good Luck!

 

[destrekor]

You stated the guy had a suspended license...
In many states somebody driving with a suspended license is always at fault if there is any kind of accident!
I would definitely go to court!
Seems like that is a slam dunk!!
He should not have been on the road in the first place!!

Good Luck!

!
!!
!!!

 

[destrekor]

Anyway, at least in Ohio, if there is a definitive at fault driver, they get a ticket. And their insurance foots the bill, as we have an at-fault system. (Michigan has a "no fault" insurance system that I still can't comprehend how it exists).

The police, when called to a scene, are likely going to do one of two things: declare it a no-fault accident and cite no drivers, cite drivers for something other than fault( maybe? not sure on this one), or cite driver(s) for fault. All parties are considered individually as far as I know, i.e. multiple drivers could be cited at fault or something equivalent.

I don't think OP will be getting off scot-free just because the other driver had a suspended license. First there could be a work/medical exception for driving, and in court this driver could individually argue against his ticket (in other words an unrelated case/docket) by way of explanation and further documentation that might not have been on hand. Also, regardless of that outcome, in that your car struck his car which you admitted completely.

Now it's possible that to demonstrate for insurance purposes that there is an at-fault driver they have to issue some kind of citation, likely something broad if it's not a serious accident. You can probably argue it down to a lesser citation, not sure if it could be something that gets wiped out entirely.

Admittedly I am not entirely familiar with the process as I have never been cited at fault or otherwise cited for any accidents. For speeding, sure. First accident I was in someone pulled out in front of me, another was a highway multi-car fatality accident. That one, angrily, was found to be a no-fault accident following the investigation. I got royally fucked thanks to that one, as my car was totaled and I had liability-only insurance -- as I owned it outright as a hand-me-down I stupidly thought this was a good idea -- and thus insurance paid out nothing, not even for the rental car. Lesson learned: never again carry anything other than comprehensive ("full coverage"). Current car will be paid off at the end of the year and I won't be changing my insurance coverage. Nope.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Anyway, at least in Ohio, if there is a definitive at fault driver, they get a ticket. And their insurance foots the bill, as we have an at-fault system. (Michigan has a "no fault" insurance system that I still can't comprehend how it exists).

The police, when called to a scene, are likely going to do one of two things: declare it a no-fault accident and cite no drivers, cite drivers for something other than fault( maybe? not sure on this one), or cite driver(s) for fault. All parties are considered individually as far as I know, i.e. multiple drivers could be cited at fault or something equivalent.

I don't think OP will be getting off scot-free just because the other driver had a suspended license. First there could be a work/medical exception for driving, and in court this driver could individually argue against his ticket (in other words an unrelated case/docket) by way of explanation and further documentation that might not have been on hand. Also, regardless of that outcome, in that your car struck his car which you admitted completely.

Now it's possible that to demonstrate for insurance purposes that there is an at-fault driver they have to issue some kind of citation, likely something broad if it's not a serious accident. You can probably argue it down to a lesser citation, not sure if it could be something that gets wiped out entirely.

Admittedly I am not entirely familiar with the process as I have never been cited at fault or otherwise cited for any accidents. For speeding, sure. First accident I was in someone pulled out in front of me, another was a highway multi-car fatality accident. That one, angrily, was found to be a no-fault accident following the investigation. I got royally fucked thanks to that one, as my car was totaled and I had liability-only insurance -- as I owned it outright as a hand-me-down I stupidly thought this was a good idea -- and thus insurance paid out nothing, not even for the rental car. Lesson learned: never again carry anything other than comprehensive ("full coverage"). Current car will be paid off at the end of the year and I won't be changing my insurance coverage. Nope.

Sadly, my car is liability only - mostly because every insurance i have ever gotten a quote from seems to recommend... to which I don't blame them. It's a 2006 Acura TSX. I've replaced plenty of items, and it is over 140k miles. Insuring it isn't exactly cheap... the cheaper the car the more expensive the insurance hence they deem you are more likely to have an issue with your car.

I mean to put it simply, when I look at the KBB at the rate of a private seller the most I can get for my car is roughly $3-4k anyhow. Thus, didn't seem reasonable to do comprehensive coverage for a car where the deductible practically negates the point of insurance.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Anyway, at least in Ohio, if there is a definitive at fault driver, they get a ticket. And their insurance foots the bill, as we have an at-fault system. (Michigan has a "no fault" insurance system that I still can't comprehend how it exists).

The police, when called to a scene, are likely going to do one of two things: declare it a no-fault accident and cite no drivers, cite drivers for something other than fault( maybe? not sure on this one), or cite driver(s) for fault. All parties are considered individually as far as I know, i.e. multiple drivers could be cited at fault or something equivalent.

I don't think OP will be getting off scot-free just because the other driver had a suspended license. First there could be a work/medical exception for driving, and in court this driver could individually argue against his ticket (in other words an unrelated case/docket) by way of explanation and further documentation that might not have been on hand. Also, regardless of that outcome, in that your car struck his car which you admitted completely.

Now it's possible that to demonstrate for insurance purposes that there is an at-fault driver they have to issue some kind of citation, likely something broad if it's not a serious accident. You can probably argue it down to a lesser citation, not sure if it could be something that gets wiped out entirely.

Admittedly I am not entirely familiar with the process as I have never been cited at fault or otherwise cited for any accidents. For speeding, sure. First accident I was in someone pulled out in front of me, another was a highway multi-car fatality accident. That one, angrily, was found to be a no-fault accident following the investigation. I got royally fucked thanks to that one, as my car was totaled and I had liability-only insurance -- as I owned it outright as a hand-me-down I stupidly thought this was a good idea -- and thus insurance paid out nothing, not even for the rental car. Lesson learned: never again carry anything other than comprehensive ("full coverage"). Current car will be paid off at the end of the year and I won't be changing my insurance coverage. Nope.

You said it yourself a definite at fault driver.....
The problem is the person the Op hit had a suspended drivers license thus that driver was NOT a legal driver andf ads such he cannot be considered a licensed driver, thus the OP should fight this tooth and nail!!

 

[destrekor]

Sadly, my car is liability only - mostly because every insurance i have ever gotten a quote from seems to recommend... to which I don't blame them. It's a 2006 Acura TSX. I've replaced plenty of items, and it is over 140k miles. Insuring it isn't exactly cheap... the cheaper the car the more expensive the insurance hence they deem you are more likely to have an issue with your car.

I mean to put it simply, when I look at the KBB at the rate of a private seller the most I can get for my car is roughly $3-4k anyhow. Thus, didn't seem reasonable to do comprehensive coverage for a car where the deductible practically negates the point of insurance.

That's how it was with my last car, except it was a 2004, which is why I did the same and just opted for the cheaper insurance.
Now I have a 2007 Mazda3 with over 160k. I've gotten used to the insurance rate, and even better, it has been dropping every year. I'm fully on board with keeping it, because what helps is that for my next new or newer car the rise in rate won't be such a shock.

 

[Red Squirrel]

That does sound like a stupid law if it's not taking the speed limit into account. You hit someone doing probably no more than 5km/h it's not like you were doing 100 in a 40 zone and smashed into someone, but the ticket/charge is making it sound like that and will appear as such on your record. I would get a good lawyer and fight it so they can downgrade it to something more reasonable that would be on par with bumping into someone.

Though if this ticket is less than a grand and does not involve demerit points then it might not even be worth fighting. It's a BS charge but what can you do, it's you against the cop's word basically.

 

[SKORPI0]

You weren't on the clear to proceed after stopping at the stop sign. The vehicle you bumped you incorrectly assumed to have left that intersection, was still in front of your vehicle. In this particular situation you look left (check incoming traffic), right (to check if it's clear/person crossing), and then left and right again before proceeding to cross and turn right.

I live near 3 STOP SIGNs and most of the drivers of these vehicles don't a complete STOP, they slow down and go.

Now based on what you and that other person told the LEO, the ticket was issued. I'd pay the fine and move on.

 

[brianmanahan]

if you bump somebody's car because of your own movement, you're at fault. this is regardless of whether or not they have a license or not.

as for whether or not to take it to court, IANAL. i'd probably just pay it but it might not hurt to ask a lawyer. they might know of some way to play it to avoid the points and record.

 

[lxskllr]

as for whether or not to take it to court, IANAL. i'd probably just pay it but it might not hurt to ask a lawyer. they might know of some way to play it to avoid the points and record.

In my part of MD, it always pays to go to court. The typical "good deal" is you pay all the costs you would have normally, but the points get dropped, so your insurance doesn't go up. The "awesome deal" is the cop doesn't show up, and you pay nothing. It never happened. The judge can also *raise* the penalty, but I've never seen that happen. You probably have to in as a raging asshole, and piss the judge off for that.

 

[allisolm]

https://definitions.uslegal.com/f/failure-to-control-speed/

Very broad definition but sounds about right for what happened.

" The driver should control the speed of the vehicle as necessary to avoid colliding with another person or vehicle."

 

[zinfamous]

My advice is to pay more attention when driving and stop getting angry over the expected punishment when it comes, especially when you already accept the blame for being an idiot. The cop was doing his job and, quite frankly, I think more of these citations need to be enforced daily. It seems that various "reckless driving" and "failure to stop" and all that stuff is so rarely enforced these days. I've watched cops pull up to a stoplight, just behind a dude that blatantly ran that light a few seconds before, and just not doing anything. It's nuts.

Hell, I got pulled over for CA stopping through a stop sign about 3 feet in front of my house 2 years ago. I did it, I get it, it was my fault. I even told myself that week that this is something that I keep doing around here, and need to adjust back to "East coast rules" before I get nailed for it. I got nailed for it. whatever. I wish that cops would hang out on that street more often, because it's nothing but ricers farting their way up and down the street all day long, pounded through that stop sign and others.

your comparison to hitting a squirrel as the same incident related to your citation is stupid.

 

[lxskllr]

@lxskllr what do you do in court when you get a reduction? Just say "my bad, can I get something less?" or "I'm broke, can you give me something less?"

As someone that never gone to court, just curious on what works best.

I missed this. I find it best to say as little as possible. In MD, the judge typically will give a statement that says something to the effect of 'no contest' cases will be heard first, and if you intend on contesting the case, you'll be heard last. Unless the cop's absolutely wrong, you want the first option. Just tell the truth. "The guy in front of me went, I thought he kept going, but he didn't, and I hit him". You've shown interest, and spent money and time to be there, so the judge typically gives you a break. May be a big break, maybe a little one, but you usually get something for the effort. That's assuming your cop shows up. If your cop isn't there, you plead not guilty. No evidence against you, so no conviction. All the above is my experience in MD. That may very well differ in other states.

 

[squirrel dog]

as several have said , go to court . Plead guilty , with a statement . Plead your case . In the future , do not proceed until the driver in front of you has cleared . I too did that , in 1966 . My 1962 Chrysler Imperial punished a Nash Rambler .

 

[Muadib]

I wanna know what the hell were you doing when the accident happened? It's clear you weren't watching the road or it never would have happened. You could go to court and hope the cop doesn't show, like lxskllr said. I think that's your only out.