Atom Pine Trail Reviews - Hallelujah NDA's Lifted

BD231

Lifer
Feb 26, 2001
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an Atom/Ion machine with Intel’s GMA 3150 comes up short on features and performance, leaving the integrated graphics almost worthless in 3D ~ Toms Hardware

Whatever Intel, you did nothing to the Atom but make it more profitable and less attractive to anyone who knows better. Intel and integrated graphics should never be in the same sentance, I dont like those folks but ..., damn do they know how to make money.

Give people garbage and they'll buy it ... amazing.
 

jaydee

Diamond Member
May 6, 2000
4,500
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Ditto. Get back to me when there's a die shrink.

I thought they did shrink it from 90nm to 45nm?


Give people garbage and they'll buy it ... amazing.

C'mon, there is a market for something like the Atom, everyone does not need an ubercomputer. I'll end up with one in a few months for internet and car diagnostics. For $300 and hours of battery life? It's a sweet deal for me and lot of others.

That said, I hate how Intel is putting limitations on RAM, no dual-core for netbooks, crappy graphics for no other reason than to push certain customers up to a more profitable market segment. They're getting everything they deserve from the FTC right now.
 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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The FTC litigation has nothing to do with artificial segmenting.

None of the Atom's components are in 90nm. The 945GC and US15 series chipsets use 0.13u process.
 
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jaydee

Diamond Member
May 6, 2000
4,500
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I'm not doubting, you, but I'm confused. Could you explain?

http://anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=3693

"Where previously Atom had to get by with outdated chipsets manufactured using a relatively archaic 90nm process technology, now the entire package is manufactured using Intel's latest and greatest high-K 45nm technology. The result as you might imagine is a significant decrease in power requirements, so if nothing else Pineview should improve battery life on netbooks."


As far as the FTC, I'm referring to this:
http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3690
"Intel priced Atom CPUs higher if they were not used with an Intel IGP chipset."
 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
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Oh, great, Anandtech has it wrong so I can't even quote them anymore.

Well, let me find the official info, but in the meantime:

945 generation: 0.13u
965 generation: 90nm
3 series(G35/P35): 90nm
4 series(G45/P45): 65nm
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
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No Native Hardware H.264 Decoding: Long Live Ion
The integrated GMA 3150 graphics hasn’t been used by Intel before, it’s a 45nm shrink of the GMA 3100. It’s technically a DX9 GPU running at 400MHz, however as you’ll soon see - you can’t really play any games on this platform. The GPU only offers hardware acceleration for MPEG-2 video, H.264 and VC-1 aren’t accelerated.
Wow, what was Intel thinking, STILL no h.264 acceleration for Netbooks. Don't they realize that Flash video is one of the cornerstones of the Internet now?

Edit: More crap. Only 1366x768 digital output, and 1400x1050 VGA output. Totally lame and crippled. What if you wanted to attach a netbook to a desktop monitor for a spell?
 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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945G: http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-gma-3000-and-x3000-developers-guide/
US15W: http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3276&p=16

As far as the FTC, I'm referring to this:
http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3690
"Intel priced Atom CPUs higher if they were not used with an Intel IGP chipset."

That's different from them using low end IGPs and putting screen size limitation.

Wow, what was Intel thinking, STILL no h.264 acceleration for Netbooks. Don't they realize that Flash video is one of the cornerstones of the Internet now?
It'll have to use the Broadcom HD Decoder chip.
 

21stHermit

Senior member
Dec 16, 2003
927
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Wow, what was Intel thinking, STILL no h.264 acceleration for Netbooks. Don't they realize that Flash video is one of the cornerstones of the Internet now?
I think you've lost sight of the purpose of Atom. Atom = Low Power, not performance. As I understand Intel's Atom road map, each generation will lower the power, not up the performance. Intel has many other platforms where each generation begets more performance at the same constant power envelope.

Clearly with 40M Atom's sold in the last two years Intel is on to something, you just need to reset your reference.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,570
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I think you've lost sight of the purpose of Atom. Atom = Low Power, not performance. As I understand Intel's Atom road map, each generation will lower the power, not up the performance. Intel has many other platforms where each generation begets more performance at the same constant power envelope.

Clearly with 40M Atom's sold in the last two years Intel is on to something, you just need to reset your reference.

I don't think you get it. Atom is supposed to be a low-power platform, not just a low-power CPU. As such, things like HD video decoding take far MORE power, when executed on the CPU, than they do when executed by a specific piece of hardware. So Intel is shooting themselves in the foot here in terms of power consumption.

Not to mention, Atom lacks the performance for a very basic internet feature these days, watching videos online.
 

v8envy

Platinum Member
Sep 7, 2002
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Is it just me, or is analog-only VGA an absolute sin in this day and age. I mean, can you even *get* an analog input on the cheapest LCDs? (the kind likely to be paired up with a $75 computing solution).

I can see a market for this as replacements for the Pentium4 corporate desktops. These Atoms will be just as powerful as circa 2003-2005 computing hardware, and use a fraction of the power. And lack of multimedia ability is a feature, not a bug.

Except for the lack of DVI-out. What were they THINKING? I'd be tempted to pick one of the dual cores up for use as an HTPC, but the requirement of an add-in video card completely negates any possible power advantage. I'm better off underclocking an AMD CPU and using the HD3200 or better onboard graphics.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
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I think you've lost sight of the purpose of Atom. Atom = Low Power, not performance. As I understand Intel's Atom road map, each generation will lower the power, not up the performance. Intel has many other platforms where each generation begets more performance at the same constant power envelope.

Clearly with 40M Atom's sold in the last two years Intel is on to something, you just need to reset your reference.

I might have been inclined to agree if it weren't for the fact these things are designed to go into a product Intel intentionally chose to call "netbook"...now if it can't even be powered well enough to reasonably do things one might want to do while scooting around on the net then wtf call it something it can't do well at?

"Its a netbook...well unless you intend to do much internet usage, then it'll kinda suck, might we suggest using a laptop for your more demanding of netbook needs and applications"

:p lol forced market segmentation ftw
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,310
687
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I don't think you get it. Atom is supposed to be a low-power platform, not just a low-power CPU

Isn't it interesting what Atom has become today? I thought these would be in cell phones, GPS, Blu-Ray players, and e-book readers, etc. Instead, what has happened is the so-called 'netbook-revolution' and people 'upgraded' their Dothan/Merom notebooks with these. 'Unintended consequence' or 'unavoidable outcome'?

At least the 2nd generation Atoms look a lot more promising on battery life.

Is it just me, or is analog-only VGA an absolute sin in this day and age. I mean, can you even *get* an analog input on the cheapest LCDs?

Enter ION. I don't think AMD can come up with something like this yet.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-228-_-Product
 

Jovec

Senior member
Feb 24, 2008
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Isn't it interesting what Atom has become today? I thought these would be in cell phones, GPS, Blu-Ray players, and e-book readers, etc. Instead, what has happened is the so-called 'netbook-revolution' and people 'upgraded' their Dothan/Merom notebooks with these. 'Unintended consequence' or 'unavoidable outcome'?

Unavoidable outcome. $300-$400 laptops sound a lot better to the average consumer than $1k+ laptops.

The bigger issue here is that this is not bleeding edge tech, and Intel is purposely crippling the Atom platform by withholding what have become standard features and by placing artificial limitations. They are not alone, Microsoft does it too with the XP netbook restrictions to ram and hdd, and I wouldn't be surprised if the laptop manufacturers were in silent agreement too because they don't want to cannibalize their own sales even more.

It's not about wanting everything for cheap, it's about providing the appropriate minimum level of features for today's consumer and Atom doesn't really do this. We live with it because of price and battery life, but in other areas we are talking a step backwards. How many of use wouldn't pay even $50 more for the original Atom netbooks if they came with a decent IGP made on a modern/smaller node process and provided hardware HD video decoding?

Would any cell phone manufacturer today introduce a model that doesn't have an MP3 player and camera? Atom is like a cell phone that only makes calls.
 
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ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
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It's not about wanting everything for cheap, it's about providing the appropriate minimum level of features for today's consumer and Atom doesn't really do this. We live with it because of price and battery life
These netbooks are basically the equivalent of buying a bicycle instead of a car. I'm not sure why they're so popular since they can't even do the most basic things. God help you if you try to run Word and Excel at the same time.
 

21stHermit

Senior member
Dec 16, 2003
927
1
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These netbooks are basically the equivalent of buying a bicycle instead of a car. I'm not sure why they're so popular since they can't even do the most basic things. God help you if you try to run Word and Excel at the same time.
While I can't speak to a single core Atom, I can vouch for the dual-core Atom 330.

I build maps where the loaded file size approaches 1GB, per Task Mgr. I'll often have multiple applications running as I'm adding to the map layers and it all works seamlessly. I've been very impressed with Atom. BTW, the video is lacking.
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
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The Broadcom chip does not currently support Flash decode acceleration.
Not true, this may be a newer version of the Broadcom chip:

the BCM70015 promises "near flawless" HD video playback, including support for Flash Player 10.1 and Blu-ray flicks.
Engadget article
The keyword has been bolded. On the current public builds, the release notes specifically list the BCM70015 as unsupported. I'm sure that'll change, but with Adobe it's anyone's guess what decade that will be.