ATi's classic Control Panel

[Gstanfor]

Only if you have a 7800 based card though. There is no official support for 6x00 and lower, though it does work (there no support for transparency AA modes either but those do not work at all for 6x00).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Phantom1983
I agree wholeheartedly. I simply can't see why ATI would produce a vast, bloated, memory-devouring app which offers NO extra functionality with respect to what it is replacing. The CP is a beautifully compact program using almost no resources and accomplishing exactly the same goals.

I'm running a 9800pro on an Athlon XP 2600+ and CP produces NO performance impacts, while CCC gives NOTICEABLE slow-down even with my 1G of memory.

Have I missed the point of programming here? I thought the aim was to write compact, smooth, reliable apps which minimize their need for resources.

The fact that those running top-end computers won't notice a performance dip with CCC is little comfort to the 90% of us who aren't. For shame, ATI:thumbsdown:

I wish it was. Unfortunately their focus shifted to abstraction, making it easier for so-called and thus far nonexistent (AFAIK) plugins to integrate themselves in to CCC.

I agree...every driver configuration front-end should be as portable as ATI Tray Tools. I loved it for my Radeon 9500 card.

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
Only if you have a 7800 based card though. There is no official support for 6x00 and lower, though it does work (there no support for transparency AA modes either but those do not work at all for 6x00).

There was any gamma-correcting AA for the 6xxx series? Gamma-corrected AA was grayed out in nHancer on my 6800NU.

 

[Munky]

I remember downloading the classic cp version of the 5.12 drivers (or maybe it was the 5.11's, but it was fairly recent). When the 5.13's came out I simply uninstalled the 5.12's but I left the control panel installed. The I installed only the 5.13 drivers without CCC. That way I get the new drivers and the cp, although the cp interface seems to have reverted to an older style. Anyways, I use ATT for my tweaking options, I'm just not ready to stop using the cp altogether.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: xtknight

... There was any gamma-correcting AA for the 6xxx series? Gamma-corrected AA was grayed out in nHancer on my 6800NU.

You need to be using nHancer V1.2.2 or greater, and, in the options menu, have "show experimental modes" ticked.

Picture

If you read the B3D forums, you'll see where Democoder suggested the method to nVidia, as they subsequently implimented it (all well before G70).

 

[BFG10K]

You know BFG10K, sometimes pictures have to be read, not just looked at (like the one I posted)...

You cannot remove built-in nVidia driver profiles with the base nVidia control panel.

It matters because the vast majority of people with high end video cards believe that you should not have to suffer IQ optimizations at that price point. nVidia allows you to do something about the situation, ATi doesn't.

How so? How do we cure the nVidia shimmering or the shadow issue in Far Cry?

As for ATi, the options are in the drivers which can be accessed by ATT. I personally think CCC/CP sucks compared to the ATT anyway but I object to the spin you're putting on the issue because of your nHancer posts in the past.

Fortunately, as a nVidia owner I haven't had to worry about that sort of thing since the end of the 50 series drivers (which were abysmal and shameful).

Ah-ha-ha. My, what a wonderful world you live in; the ignorance must be bliss.

Demonstrate to me how to remove the Doom 3 driver profile without using nHancer. Then if you do this provide an explanation why renaming the Doom 3 executable still won't allow the driver to force AF in that application, even with no profile present in the system.

Otherwise, you will need to use nHancer to enable/disable it.

Right, just like you can use ATT to disable ATi's filtering optimizations.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

You know BFG10K, sometimes pictures have to be read, not just looked at (like the one I posted)...

You cannot remove built-in nVidia driver profiles with the base nVidia control panel.
:disgust:

It matters because the vast majority of people with high end video cards believe that you should not have to suffer IQ optimizations at that price point. nVidia allows you to do something about the situation, ATi doesn't.

How so? How do we cure the nVidia shimmering or the shadow issue in Far Cry?
I've demonstrated to you and Dug777 in the past how to remove shimmering. The farcry shadow issue is not IMO caused by nVidia's drivers and needs developer patching to fix (like most shimmering issues).

As for ATi, the options are in the drivers which can be accessed by ATT. I personally think CCC/CP sucks compared to the ATT anyway but I object to the spin you're putting on the issue because of your nHancer posts in the past.
what does nHancer have to do with this topic. It wasn't mentioned until *you* brought it up, and it isn't required for the purpose of disabling optimizations. I put no spin whatsoever on the issue, all my comments pertained to nVidia's CP, unlike yours

Fortunately, as a nVidia owner I haven't had to worry about that sort of thing since the end of the 50 series drivers (which were abysmal and shameful).

Ah-ha-ha. My, what a wonderful world you live in; the ignorance must be bliss.
:disgust:

Demonstrate to me how to remove the Doom 3 driver profile without using nHancer. Then if you do this provide an explanation why renaming the Doom 3 executable still won't allow the driver to force AF in that application, even with no profile present in the system.

:disgust: Just click the "Remove" button...

However, I *do not* reccomend forcing AF in Doom3 (and never have), since it will lead to a big slowdown in Doom3 performance. This is because the driver is now forced to treat everything in Doom3 as being anisotropically filtered to X level, instead of what the game tells the driver to filter using AF (and only where AF is actually required). The only two correct ways to set AF in doom3 are via the in game menu, or via tweaking DoomConfig.cgf (seta image_anisotropy "x" with 8 being the minimum value).

The game interacts with the driver this way by design, and the driver ensures things stay that way by design. Just because ATi do things contrary to the programmers wishes in their drivers doesn't mean that nVidia also has to. If you are desperate to stuff things up performance & IQ wise, feel free to use a 3rd party utility (nHancer will not let you) to force the AF.

Otherwise, you will need to use nHancer to enable/disable it.

Right, just like you can use ATT to disable ATi's filtering optimizations.

But Gamma AA is *not* an optimization, it is an AA mode, which is only officially supported on some nVidia hardware.

 

[BFG10K]

I've demonstrated to you and Dug777 in the past how to remove shimmering.

A positive LOD setting is not supported through nVidia's base driver control panel.

what does nHancer have to do with this topic.

It's a third party utility that extends functionality over the base control panel just like ATT.

It wasn't mentioned until *you* brought it up, and it isn't required for the purpose of disabling optimizations.

Perhaps not, but it's required for certain other things that can' t be changed through the base control panel. That's my point.

Just click the "Remove" button...

Okay, you're now either trolling or you really don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Page 114 from the latest driver user's guide:

You can remove the following types of profiles - i.e., the Remove button is available for use when:

--You have selected a profile you have added.

--You have selected a pre-defined NVIDIA-supplied profile that you have modified and renamed.

So in otherwords it's not possible to use the remove button unless one of the two apply, which isn't what I asked. If you click the remove button on that Doom 3 profile in your screenshot you'll simply get a message telling you that you can't remove it.

But I think you know this, you just enjoy trolling and spreading misinformation.

As for your Doom 3 comments, I'm well aware of how AF works but that's beside the point. The point I am making is that nVidia won't allow you to delete the profile and even if you delete it through nHancer it still doesn't defeat nVidia's driver application detection since you still can't force AF in the game.

But Gamma AA is *not* an optimization, it is an AA mode, which is only officially supported on some nVidia hardware.

It's yet another setting that isn't accessible through the control panel.

 

[Gstanfor]

Briefly (I'm way busy to argue with a 'tard like you at the moment),

A positive LOD setting is not supported through nVidia's base driver control panel.

I didn't (and wouldn't) suggest a positive LOD value as a remedy for shimmering. I'd love to know out what smelly orifice you managed to drag that claim (on second thought, no I wouldn't).

Perhaps not, but it's required for certain other things that can' t be changed through the base control panel. That's my point.

It may be your point, but it certainly wasn't mine. I enunciated my points quite clearly in my first post in this thread, and "changing certain other things" was not among them.

The point I am making is that nVidia won't allow you to delete the profile and even if you delete it through nHancer it still doesn't defeat nVidia's driver application detection since you still can't force AF in the game.

.
That is correct (though you can delete the profile, if you are determined enough, how hard it is depends on the exact driver version you use). As I have stated twice before now, this is because the game requires this behaviour by design if it is to function optimally. There is absolutely nothing illegal or improper happening here, nVidia is running the game exactly the way the developer wants it to be run. Same for Halo & Splinter Cell.

It's yet another setting that isn't accessible through the control panel.

AFAIK (and i could be wrong, but I don't believe I am) nVidia has never claimed to expose all or even most of its settings in the control panel, nor have I claimed that they do.

 

[BFG10K]

First of all do we have an admission that your picture showing the remove button was actually deceptive because it will not work for built-in nVidia profiles?

I didn't (and wouldn't) suggest a positive LOD value as a remedy for shimmering.

Then refresh my memory, what is the fix you suggested?

AFAIK (and i could be wrong, but I don't believe I am) nVidia has never claimed to expose all or even most of its settings in the control panel, nor have I claimed that they do.

Exactly the same applies to ATi so why do you take issue with them if you have to use ATT? I've repeatedly stated that ATT is far superior than CCC or CP.

 

[Gstanfor]

Final reply from me to you on this subject.

Then refresh my memory, what is the fix you suggested?

I've said it before, and I'll say it agin - do your own goddamn research!!! I won't do it for you!

Exactly the same applies to ATi so why do you take issue with them if you have to use ATT? I've repeatedly stated that ATT is far superior than CCC or CP.

I (and tEd) objected to the CCC on the grounds that you cannot disable optimizations with it without disabling other features as well. With nVidia you can disable optimizations and yet still use other features, and you don't have to resort to 3rd party tools to disable the optimizations. None of your childish rants have or will change this basic premise.

Edit (for clueless comments in post below): Do *YOU* know what you are talking about would be the more appropriate question to ask... This is all in my very first post...

B3D Linkage

While i think cat ai is certainly a good feature it had one major flaw since it was launched. There is no option to disable texture filtering optimisation separately from game specific optimisations.

 

[BFG10K]

Still no admission that your linked picture was totally deceptive because in fact you can't delete nVidia's built-in profiles with the base control panel?

I objected to the CCC on the grounds that you cannot disable optimizations with it without disabling other features as well.

What are you talking about? I don't even think CCC has options for the optimization settings you're referring to, but if it did why would turning them off disable other features? If you disable vsync does it disable AF? I don't think so.

Do you even know what you're arguing?

 

[Gstanfor]

(I know I shouldn't do this, but, I just can't help myself - BFG10K brings out the worst in me - what can I say?)

Anyone who has read this thread knows that BFG10K, tried to attack me/nVidia by claiming that nVidia was somehow doing something improper by not allowing users to force AF in the control panel.

There are good reasons why developers don't always want to allow this sort of behaviour (especially with more recent games that came to market after AF was popularised and have AF controls of their own). The main one being, not all textures/surface require AF filtering and performance will suffer as well as IQ impacted. These games should have the AF selector set to "application controlled"

A case in point is Railroad Tycoon 3. Readme.rtf that ships with the game.

ATI Radeon ? Blurriness, Glowing Building Fringes. If improperly configured, ATI Radeon cards (especially the 9000 and above models) can experience the following visual glitches: Fringes of buildings and cars glow at night. Grid mode (press 'G' key to toggle) produces only a fuzzy unusable grid. When placing or hovering over stations, the glowing 'radius of effect' has blurry, hard to discern images. All of the aforementioned symptoms are caused when the driver ignores RT3's bilinear/anisotropic filtering preference. To resolve, do the following: At your windows desktop (NOT inside of the RT3 game), right-click on an open area of the desktop. Choose 'Properties', then click on the 'Settings' tab, then choose 'Advanced'. Click on the 'Direct3D' tab (if you do not see a 'Direct 3D' tab, then you'll need to install the ATI control panel, normally found on the disk that came with your video card, and also downloadable at www.ati.com). With the 'Direct3D' tab selected, you should see a box labeled 'Anisotropic Filtering'. Check this box, so that the application (i.e. Railroad Tycoon 3) can control this setting. Railroad Tycoon 3 uses filtering for some operations, but turns it off for others

.

I found that info after I installed the game for my parents (they have a nVidia card, and no, they don't suffer the described issues) and was reding the readme file.

 

[BFG10K]

(I know I shouldn't do this, but, I just can't help myself - BFG10K brings out the worst in me - what can I say?)

Oh pu-lease, get off your high horse and admit that you posted misleading information about being able to remove nVidia's default driver profiles.

This is at least the third time I've asked for your retraction but I have yet to get it.

Anyone who has read this thread knows that BFG10K, tried to attack me/nVidia by claiming that nVidia was somehow doing something improper by not allowing users to force AF in the control panel.

No. What I did was provide an example where ATi lets you control application detection but nVidia does not. The issue isn't whether there's good reason to detect the application, it's that you don't have a say in the matter.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

(I know I shouldn't do this, but, I just can't help myself - BFG10K brings out the worst in me - what can I say?)

Oh pu-lease, get off your high horse and admit that you posted misleading information about being able to remove nVidia's default driver profiles.

This is at least the third time I've asked for your retraction but I have yet to get it.

Anyone who has read this thread knows that BFG10K, tried to attack me/nVidia by claiming that nVidia was somehow doing something improper by not allowing users to force AF in the control panel.

No. What I did was provide an example where ATi lets you control application detection but nVidia does not. The issue isn't whether there's good reason to detect the application, it's that you don't have a say in the matter.

You don't have a say in the matter by design - developer design. If you still want to argue about that, email Carmack, don't pester me.

 

[Steelski]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

Originally posted by: BFG10K

(I know I shouldn't do this, but, I just can't help myself - BFG10K brings out the worst in me - what can I say?)

Oh pu-lease, get off your high horse and admit that you posted misleading information about being able to remove nVidia's default driver profiles.

This is at least the third time I've asked for your retraction but I have yet to get it.

Anyone who has read this thread knows that BFG10K, tried to attack me/nVidia by claiming that nVidia was somehow doing something improper by not allowing users to force AF in the control panel.

No. What I did was provide an example where ATi lets you control application detection but nVidia does not. The issue isn't whether there's good reason to detect the application, it's that you don't have a say in the matter.

You don't have a say in the matter by design - developer design. If you still want to argue about that, email Carmack, don't pester me.

Just shut up you fool.
Shut your ranting gob.

Emailing carmack.......you absolute geek.

Nvidia have built in functions that can not be dissabled. They have performance issues with some games if optimisations are not used, not compatibility issues.
I´m sure that the 7800´s can render farcry and WOW correctly, its just that they would loose so much. I have never seen an official ATI driver(correct me if i am wrong) displaying adverse image quality with AI turned off that was not a bug.