ATI - where are your midrange cards?!?

[blckgrffn]

[rant]
What is ATI going to do about this?

What is there answer to the 7600GT?

I am sick of not having any real choice at $100 or $150 price points, nvidia cleans up. Even at $200, Nvidia seems to hold the crown uncontested excpet for the odd hot deal that springs up.

What were they thinking with the x1600? 4 TMU's?!? Now, if it was a 8 TMU/16 Pipe card, the 7600GT would probably have a very significant rival...

Now the 7300GT is out against the x1600 Pro and X1300 variants, and it would be hard to choose either of those when you can get a passively cooled 7300GT with 8 pipes running at 450/800 with 256 megs of ram (gigabyte). No reason to really choose ATI here, unless you count AVIVO, and I personally don't think that swings it anyway.
[/rant]

Does anyone know when ATI might be going to rectify this? I just want options...

Nat

Answer:

Originally posted by: CKXP
ATI does have some plans for the midrange(low-end) market, but it's going to be a while though...

http://www.techreport.com/onearticle.x/10419

Also in October, ATI plans to bolster its low-end lineup with an RV560-based Radeon X1650 XT graphics card, additional slides show. With 24 pixel shader processors and 600MHz/1.4GHz core and memory clocks, the slides say the X1650 XT will trounce NVIDIA's GeForce 7600 GT. The Radeon X1650 XT will also feature CrossFire support via an internal cable, an implementation similar to NVIDIA's "golden finger" SLI bridge.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

I dont know about the 7300GT but 7600 GT = 1800GTO which is > and with a few more $ you get x1800xt which is unmatched at 200 and a little, and then you have 1900xts going at 300-330 which are in a class of their own.. i dont see the problem

 

[Wreckage]

You can get a 7600GS for $89.99
LINK

 

[Cookie Monster]

NVs been making lots of money from this.

They dominate mid/low range.

And yes a X1800XT IS NOT A viable option.
X1800GTOs are hard to make as well, using 256bit and R520 cores to stay competitive against the 7600GT.

From what i know

7300GT > X1300pro
7600GS > X1600pro/XT
7600GT = X1800GTO. except the 7600GT is cheaper and smaller.

 

[CKXP]

ATI does have some plans for the midrange(low-end) market, but it's going to be a while though...

http://www.techreport.com/onearticle.x/10419

Also in October, ATI plans to bolster its low-end lineup with an RV560-based Radeon X1650 XT graphics card, additional slides show. With 24 pixel shader processors and 600MHz/1.4GHz core and memory clocks, the slides say the X1650 XT will trounce NVIDIA's GeForce 7600 GT. The Radeon X1650 XT will also feature CrossFire support via an internal cable, an implementation similar to NVIDIA's "golden finger" SLI bridge.

 

[fierydemise]

ATI's midrange line up has been lacking for a while but really it probably doesn't hurt them that much. The enthusiasts who are most likely to extensive research on video cards before buying are likely to buying higher end cards or cards with a high bang for buck potential (X800GTO, 6800NU). Most people who like to pretend they know about computers are usually fanboys for no reason in particular and will go with whatever video card company x makes in their price point, and the people who buy from Dell or similar get whatever Dell sticks in there, ATI, nVidia, performance? they don't care.

 

[Nightmare225]

Originally posted by: CKXP
ATI does have some plans for the midrange(low-end) market, but it's going to be a while though...

http://www.techreport.com/onearticle.x/10419

Also in October, ATI plans to bolster its low-end lineup with an RV560-based Radeon X1650 XT graphics card, additional slides show. With 24 pixel shader processors and 600MHz/1.4GHz core and memory clocks, the slides say the X1650 XT will trounce NVIDIA's GeForce 7600 GT. The Radeon X1650 XT will also feature CrossFire support via an internal cable, an implementation similar to NVIDIA's "golden finger" SLI bridge.

WHy are they always so behind. :disgust:

 

[sindows]

x800 gto2s

 

[blckgrffn]

Originally posted by: CKXP
ATI does have some plans for the midrange(low-end) market, but it's going to be a while though...

http://www.techreport.com/onearticle.x/10419

Also in October, ATI plans to bolster its low-end lineup with an RV560-based Radeon X1650 XT graphics card, additional slides show. With 24 pixel shader processors and 600MHz/1.4GHz core and memory clocks, the slides say the X1650 XT will trounce NVIDIA's GeForce 7600 GT. The Radeon X1650 XT will also feature CrossFire support via an internal cable, an implementation similar to NVIDIA's "golden finger" SLI bridge.

Thanks, exactly what I was looking for. Finally. All I want is a midrange card that can play games like GW with HQ AF and AOE3 with HDR & HQAF. What do you want to bet that the card will still have 4 TMU's, ala 9600?

Calling the x1800's a midrange card is a bit of joke at this point, as their power consumption is way to high for my personal tastes. Besides which, they must not be making ATI much money, that huge core doesn't come for free. I guess what I am saying is that I would like to see ATI make a viable midrange product that will also make them money. Profitable companies are healthy, and healthy companies make good stuff

Nat

 

[blckgrffn]

Originally posted by: sindows
x800 gto2s

Check the sig... That's a $125 card right there...

My GF and I both are running x800xt/x850xt's, the bang for the buck is great. I just want the new features and lower power consumption. Upgrading your PSU to use a certain video card sucks IMHO...

Originally posted by: Wreckage
You can get a 7600GS for $89.99
LINK

MIR and tax kills that deal for me, but that could be good for some. Really, that won't be much faster than the gigabyte 7300GT at newegg for $86 shipped, the 7300GT might actually be a little quicker due to that extra 50 mhz if you leave them both stock, in non-shader intensive games.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

The HIS X1800GTO is a great mid-range card@$170 after MIR. Best feature set in its class, VIVO, single slot cooling, and unlocks to 16 pipes with bios flash.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Just get an Nvidia card instead?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar
Just get an Nvidia card instead?

That is his point, ATI doesn't have many compelling cards to keep you from chosing nV in that market.

 

[blckgrffn]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
The HIS X1800GTO is a great mid-range card@$170 after MIR. Best feature set in its class, VIVO, single slot cooling, and unlocks to 16 pipes with bios flash.

At new egg is $190 AR, and you have to flash the bios and OC it like crazy to really justify spending the extra money at all, both of which void the warranty.

Even AR, it is about $50-$60 more than you could get a 7600GT for AR, not to mention 7600GS SLI that you could have for that price. (not that a route like that is free of setbacks)

Plus, it's still a power monster and creates an incredible amount of heat to deal with, thankfully it has a decent HS on that model.

That's still not an ideal midrange solution IMHO, especially since 7800 GTs/GTX's have shown up with similar prices and better stock performance.

Nat

 

[blckgrffn]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar
Just get an Nvidia card instead?

That is his point, ATI doesn't have many compelling cards to keep you from chosing nV in that market.

EXACTLY my point!

Less than $200 seems to be all nvidia, unless you go the with some oldy-but goodies that have to be drying up soon.

 

[iamaelephant]

Why does it bother you? Just get the best card you can afford. If you can only afford a mid-range card, then go for nVidia. It shouldn't matter to you who makes the damn thing, it's crazy to get an inferior card or to pay more just because it has an ATi logo.

 

[blckgrffn]

Originally posted by: iamaelephant
Why does it bother you? Just get the best card you can afford. If you can only afford a mid-range card, then go for nVidia. It shouldn't matter to you who makes the damn thing, it's crazy to get an inferior card or to pay more just because it has an ATi logo.

HQ AF is one reason why I care.

I could give a **** who makes the chip, I just want certain features and performance at a certain price point. If nvidia comes out with a midrange chip that has what I need, so much the better. They at least seem to grasp what it takes in the $50-$200 market.

What I can afford and what I will spend are two very different things, my friend

(Besides that I refuse to buy $300+ space heaters when a more effiecient card could probably use half the power for 80% of the performance. Refuse.)

 

[Ulfhednar]

Complaining isn't going to make ATI throw out more models for you. Just buy Nvidia, spend more/less, or wait until ATI does make some new ones. It's called compromise.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: blckgrffn

Originally posted by: CKXP
ATI does have some plans for the midrange(low-end) market, but it's going to be a while though...

http://www.techreport.com/onearticle.x/10419

Also in October, ATI plans to bolster its low-end lineup with an RV560-based Radeon X1650 XT graphics card, additional slides show. With 24 pixel shader processors and 600MHz/1.4GHz core and memory clocks, the slides say the X1650 XT will trounce NVIDIA's GeForce 7600 GT. The Radeon X1650 XT will also feature CrossFire support via an internal cable, an implementation similar to NVIDIA's "golden finger" SLI bridge.

Thanks, exactly what I was looking for. Finally. All I want is a midrange card that can play games like GW with HQ AF and AOE3 with HDR & HQAF. What do you want to bet that the card will still have 4 TMU's, ala 9600?

Calling the x1800's a midrange card is a bit of joke at this point, as their power consumption is way to high for my personal tastes. Besides which, they must not be making ATI much money, that huge core doesn't come for free. I guess what I am saying is that I would like to see ATI make a viable midrange product that will also make them money. Profitable companies are healthy, and healthy companies make good stuff

Nat

The r560 or r570 will not have 4 TMU's. Ati is sticking with the 3:1 design this generation, and a 24 PS gpu will have 8 TMU's. Still not as much as the 7600gt, but with 24 PS that should be enough.

 

[blckgrffn]

Originally posted by: munky

Originally posted by: blckgrffn

Originally posted by: CKXP
ATI does have some plans for the midrange(low-end) market, but it's going to be a while though...

http://www.techreport.com/onearticle.x/10419

Also in October, ATI plans to bolster its low-end lineup with an RV560-based Radeon X1650 XT graphics card, additional slides show. With 24 pixel shader processors and 600MHz/1.4GHz core and memory clocks, the slides say the X1650 XT will trounce NVIDIA's GeForce 7600 GT. The Radeon X1650 XT will also feature CrossFire support via an internal cable, an implementation similar to NVIDIA's "golden finger" SLI bridge.

Thanks, exactly what I was looking for. Finally. All I want is a midrange card that can play games like GW with HQ AF and AOE3 with HDR & HQAF. What do you want to bet that the card will still have 4 TMU's, ala 9600?

Calling the x1800's a midrange card is a bit of joke at this point, as their power consumption is way to high for my personal tastes. Besides which, they must not be making ATI much money, that huge core doesn't come for free. I guess what I am saying is that I would like to see ATI make a viable midrange product that will also make them money. Profitable companies are healthy, and healthy companies make good stuff

Nat

The r560 or r570 will not have 4 TMU's. Ati is sticking with the 3:1 design this generation, and a 24 PS gpu will have 8 TMU's. Still not as much as the 7600gt, but with 24 PS that should be enough.

I was being sarcastic, and yes, I agree a 8/24 card should pack some punch. Finally! (I thought the 7600 was 8 TMU's/12 shaders?) Hopefully the pricing in that tech report article stays true, at least the $150-$250 segment will really heat up!

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar
Complaining isn't going to make ATI throw out more models for you. Just buy Nvidia, spend more/less, or wait until ATI does make some new ones. It's called compromise.

Of course it isn't, but my dollars have been talking for almost 2 years now, and I was wondering if anyone else was either as frustrated as I am or had any news on upcoming chips/cards.

 

[coldpower27]

Originally posted by: blckgrffn
I was being sarcastic, and yes, I agree a 8/24 card should pack some punch. Finally! (I thought the 7600 was 8 TMU's/12 shaders?) Hopefully the pricing in that tech report article stays true, at least the $150-$250 segment will really heat up!

Well the 7600 GT (G73) is basically half a G71.

It has 12 TMU, 12 Pixel Shaders.

Seeing as how R580 compete with G71. 48/16 vs 24/24

the RV560 which is basically half a R580 should compete good against the G73.

I like companies that make cost effective high performance, low power products as well, hence why Intel is so appealing now.

In terms of product line up right now.

Geforce 7300 GS vs Radeon X1300

Cost is in the G72 court with the smaller die and 64Bit PCB, the X1300 has a better feature set, though with greater cost.

Geforce 7300 GT vs Radeon X1300 Pro

Cost is mixed bag, since it has a smaller die, though memory cost will be lower on the stock 7300, and it doesn't need afully functional die. The 7300 GT though will be a faster product.

Geforce 7600 GS vs Radeon X1600 Pro and XT

Costs favor the G73 core, as well as the use 800MHZ DDR2, the Radeon X1600 Pro has a larger die and is typically somewhat slower in performance, the XT is on par or better, but is high clocked, use GDDR3, so further greater costs.

Geforce 7600 GT vs Radeon X1800 GTO

Costs heavily favor the G73 core, as the X1800 uses a defective/disabled R520 core, as well as 256bit PCB.

Face it this generation, Nvidia has been focused on greater performing cost effective products with lower power consumption and some expense to feature set.

ATI on the other hand focus on having some more features, at greater cost, though their mainstream products leave something to be desired.

ATI is trying to address these issues.

Radeon X1300 XT, RV535 based, desing to take on the Geforce 7300 GT, (I think), replaces the current X1300 Pro.

Radeon X1650 Pro, RV535 based, designed to take on the Geforce 7600 GS, (I think), replaces the current X1600 Pro/XT

Radeon X1650 XT, RV560 based, designed to take on the Geforce 7600 GT, replaces the current X1800 GTO

Radeon X1950 Pro, RV570 based, designed to take on the Geforce 7900 GT, replaces the X1900 GT.

Radeon X1950 XTX, R580+ based, designed to take on the Geforce 7900 GTX, judging by the MSRP.

Nvidia will probably not respond to this refresh, they will just go on to G80. I think..

 

[tuteja1986]

ATI LOW to MID SERIES

X1300 @ 79USD low competes with 7300
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161001


X1600XT @109USD mid beats an 7600gs
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102668R


X850XT @145.99USD high-mid beats an 7600GT
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102483

X1800GTO @203USD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161012R

X1800XT @234USD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102007


Happy :?

 

[blckgrffn]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
ATI LOW to MID SERIES

X1300 @ 79USD low competes with 7300
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161001


X1600XT @109USD mid beats an 7600gs
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102668R


X850XT @145.99USD high-mid beats an 7600GT
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102483

X1800GTO @203USD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161012R

X1800XT @234USD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102007


Happy :?

The x1300 doesn't have a chance against an $85 7300GT, and neither really does an x1600xt. Why? They have no fill rate, they are severely handicappd by 4 TMU's.

The x1800 parts were discussed and dismissed for reasons already stated.

I run an x850xt, what does that say (It was damn cheap, that's what)? Besides that, in most benches it doesn't really clobber the 7600GT, it's more expensive, uses tons more power, and the stock cooler leaves more than a little to be desired. Basically, it's an older card which A)doesn't have the particular features I want and B)uses a lot of power to generate basically the same performance as a 7600GT, which has more features available.

So no, I am not happy

Hopefully I will be able to pick up an x1650xt with a nice AC style heatsink for $180 before christmas to accompany the conroe I hope to pick up at that time

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: blckgrffn

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
ATI LOW to MID SERIES

X1300 @ 79USD low competes with 7300
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161001


X1600XT @109USD mid beats an 7600gs
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102668R


X850XT @145.99USD high-mid beats an 7600GT
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102483

X1800GTO @203USD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161012R

X1800XT @234USD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102007


Happy :?

The x1300 doesn't have a chance against an $85 7300GT, and neither really does an x1600xt. Why? They have no fill rate, they are severely handicappd by 4 TMU's.

The x1800 parts were discussed and dismissed for reasons already stated.

I run an x850xt, what does that say (It was damn cheap, that's what)? Besides that, in most benches it doesn't really clobber the 7600GT, it's more expensive, uses tons more power, and the stock cooler leaves more than a little to be desired. Basically, it's an older card which A)doesn't have the particular features I want and B)uses a lot of power to generate basically the same performance as a 7600GT, which has more features available.

So no, I am not happy

Hopefully I will be able to pick up an x1650xt with a nice AC style heatsink for $180 before christmas to accompany the conroe I hope to pick up at that time

So your beef is that you want HDR+AA for midrange price? Good luck trying to run anything but Source based games at anything above 1024x768.

 

[blckgrffn]

Originally posted by: Golgatha

Originally posted by: blckgrffn

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
ATI LOW to MID SERIES

X1300 @ 79USD low competes with 7300
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161001


X1600XT @109USD mid beats an 7600gs
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102668R


X850XT @145.99USD high-mid beats an 7600GT
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102483

X1800GTO @203USD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161012R

X1800XT @234USD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102007


Happy :?

The x1300 doesn't have a chance against an $85 7300GT, and neither really does an x1600xt. Why? They have no fill rate, they are severely handicappd by 4 TMU's.

The x1800 parts were discussed and dismissed for reasons already stated.

I run an x850xt, what does that say (It was damn cheap, that's what)? Besides that, in most benches it doesn't really clobber the 7600GT, it's more expensive, uses tons more power, and the stock cooler leaves more than a little to be desired. Basically, it's an older card which A)doesn't have the particular features I want and B)uses a lot of power to generate basically the same performance as a 7600GT, which has more features available.

So no, I am not happy

Hopefully I will be able to pick up an x1650xt with a nice AC style heatsink for $180 before christmas to accompany the conroe I hope to pick up at that time

So your beef is that you want HDR+AA for midrange price? Good luck trying to run anything but Source based games at anything above 1024x768.

HQ AF + SM3. HDR+AA works fine on my x850xt in Source...

Or how about a just a competitively performing, low power/noise ATI product? Period, in any price range? Barring the $50 x1300's...